Get stuffed telling me to grow up. As I said above, why do you care about the cost, if hes the right payer that the manager wants then we sign him for his market value. Its amazes me that for years on here we have had people whinging that we havent backed the manager, yet seemingly this is exactly what we are doing and people still whinge.

With FFP we need to make smart business. You are telling me you can't see the difference in buying a LB for 30m instead of 80m. There could well be 50m money to invest in a defender, midfielder or an attacker which has a direct impact for the coming season.

If Chilwell is Frank's main target and he is certain he takes us closer to Liverpool it is Frank's responsibility and I fully back him.

I think fans show well informed criticism towards this buy. City and Liverpool made him look like an 8 pound defender. Granted I haven't seen him too much to make but watching those two games alone made me want to avoid him.

6 minutes ago, evissy said:

With FFP we need to make smart business. You are telling me you can't see the difference in buying a LB for 30m instead of 80m. There could well be 50m money to invest in a defender, midfielder or an attacker which has a direct impact for the coming season.

If Chilwell is Frank's main target and he is certain he takes us closer to Liverpool it is Frank's responsibility and I fully back him.

I think fans show well informed criticism towards this buy. City and Liverpool made him look like an 8 pound defender. Granted I haven't seen him too much to make but watching those two games alone made me want to avoid him.

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FFP impact is not that big for these big signings though due to amortisation, we arent paying that £80m outright. Also lets get this right, that figure is being thrown around as fact when it isnt, its the media making up a number and adding whatever to get an amount that will get internet clicks.

FFP impact is not that big for these big signings though due to amortisation, we arent paying that £80m outright. Also lets get this right, that figure is being thrown around as fact when it isnt, its the media making up a number and adding whatever to get an amount that will get internet clicks.

The FFP period is 3 years. We need to be compliant through that period.

For me the money is not really the issue if it can be worked around. Is Chilwell an 80m defender that can significantly improve us. If he ends up being Ashley Cole 80m is a bargain. Has he shown signs of being the next Ash? Probably not.

1 hour ago, dkw said:

Why does the price matter, if hes the right player and the manager wants him then we go sign him for his value. Hes English and his price will be high, thats just got to be accepted. Some people are claiming hes bang average and players x, y and z are better. But as I said before they arent the ones our manager wants, or belieevs are obtainable. How

because we have limited funds, and that money could be spent in better places?

You're talking as if money has no relevance. By that logic why not just throw 300m at Mbappe and sign him?

The problem for me is that you could end up with another Kepa situation where we payed over the odds for an average player who we feel more obliged to play because of the transfer fee even if we know deep down he won't be the player we hoped he would be.  We get a few top performances every 10 games or so and that keeps us all still hoping, but eventually 3 years pass and everyone realises he's just sh*t.  We all start begging for a replacement, however no one will want to pay his massive wages so he'll stay stinking up the place with his new best mate Danny Drink'n'drive, this results in Liverpool wining their 4 title in a row with Chelsea a close 2nd each time.  If only they had a decent left back.

46 minutes ago, DarkMata said:

The problem for me is that you could end up with another Kepa situation where we payed over the odds for an average player who we feel more obliged to play because of the transfer fee even if we know deep down he won't be the player we hoped he would be.  We get a few top performances every 10 games or so and that keeps us all still hoping, but eventually 3 years pass and everyone realises he's just sh*t.  We all start begging for a replacement, however no one will want to pay his massive wages so he'll stay stinking up the place with his new best mate Danny Drink'n'drive, this results in Liverpool wining their 4 title in a row with Chelsea a close 2nd each time.  If only they had a decent left back.

Pardon me for interrupting here, but I do not believe that Kepa is shi*te. He has shown some great qualities on multiple occasions and he is the least to blame for our problems on defence.

Yes, he is not prime Neuer or de Gea, yes, he sometimes allows easy goals that should have never gone in, but, he is still young and has a lot of room to imrove. I bet my ar*e that if we have a decent defense in front of him, he will show what he can do. 

On the other hand, just to keep it in the topic, I also think that Chilwell is not the answer for our LB. In the games against the Top 6, he was looking mediocre at best and is nowhere near Ashley on that matter. He is just being overhyped and overestimated cuz he is an young Englishman and the media is trying to make him the next big thing. Hell, if we have to pay 80 mil for LB, I would stick to Alonso and Emerson or go with Maatsen. Telles, Tagliafico and Grimaldo seem like the better and cheaper option here.

I don't think we should pass on signing a player because hes not as good as one of the best left backs in the modern games history, that's a ridiculously high bar. 

 

3 minutes ago, Hensi said:

Yes, he is not prime Neuer or de Gea, yes, he sometimes allows easy goals that should have never gone in, but, he is still young and has a lot of room to imrove. I bet my ar*e that if we have a decent defense in front of him, he will show what he can do. 

 

Kepa isn't young. 

13 minutes ago, bisright1 said:

Kepa isn't young. 

He is 25, turning 26 in October. For a GK he easily has 10 years of football ahead of him. And how is 25 not young? By that logic, we can recall Cech or Cudicine out of retirement and hope for better ?

If the player is good, I don't care how much we spend on him, but I don't think Chilwell is good so I wouldn't want us to spend any money on him. 

I think if Lampard wants Chilwell he should get him. He's obviously better than our current LBs, so if he's better than both Emerson and Alonso it's an upgrade and I would welcome this signing.

People today think that just because he's English he's overrated which is wrong. He has a lot of skill and he still has a lot of time to develop himself even further, he fits right in the new gen thing that we're doing now.

1 hour ago, dkw said:

I don't think we should pass on signing a player because hes not as good as one of the best left backs in the modern games history, that's a ridiculously high bar. 

 

For the amounts quoted in the media we absolutely should pass on Chilwell. It's madness to spend a superstar money on a fairly decent, but unspectacular player.

I'd rather we spend that amount on a world class CB, because that would really improve our team and address our biggest weakness. As for the LB spot, there are similar, if not better, fullbacks that can be had for a fairly modest fee.

Edited June 11, 20206 yr by abramovich

2 hours ago, Hensi said:

Pardon me for interrupting here, but I do not believe that Kepa is shi*te. He has shown some great qualities on multiple occasions and he is the least to blame for our problems on defence.

Yes, he is not prime Neuer or de Gea, yes, he sometimes allows easy goals that should have never gone in, but, he is still young and has a lot of room to imrove. I bet my ar*e that if we have a decent defense in front of him, he will show what he can do. 

On the other hand, just to keep it in the topic, I also think that Chilwell is not the answer for our LB. In the games against the Top 6, he was looking mediocre at best and is nowhere near Ashley on that matter. He is just being overhyped and overestimated cuz he is an young Englishman and the media is trying to make him the next big thing. Hell, if we have to pay 80 mil for LB, I would stick to Alonso and Emerson or go with Maatsen. Telles, Tagliafico and Grimaldo seem like the better and cheaper option here.

My whole post was a bit tongue in cheek and over the top, but with a spattering of truth in there.  Honestly I want to believe Kepa will come good, but deep down I know he won't, and I know I've spent years believing and wishing Torres would come good.   I'm not putting myself through that emotional rollercoaster again.  However this post is about Chilwell so I don't want to side track on a big Kepa debate, I think there may already be a lengthy thread on that topic. 

I think most of us will agree that if Lamps really wants him and it's not being forced on him by the board then we should sign him and trust his vision.

14 hours ago, Hensi said:

He is 25, turning 26 in October. For a GK he easily has 10 years of football ahead of him. And how is 25 not young? By that logic, we can recall Cech or Cudicine out of retirement and hope for better ?

Saying he is young implies he will improve. 

Modern goalkeepers don't noticably improve after 25. Cech, courtois, de gea, Allison, ederson,  Buffon, neuer etc. All hit their prime by 25. 

I don't want this version of kepa for 10 years. 

 

26 minutes ago, bisright1 said:

Saying he is young implies he will improve. 

Modern goalkeepers don't noticably improve after 25. Cech, courtois, de gea, Allison, ederson,  Buffon, neuer etc. All hit their prime by 25. 

I don't want this version of kepa for 10 years. 

 

That's not really true though, keepers till this day in general peak after 27 and can be at their best till after 30. Our own Cech was at his best around 28 years of age and kept going strong till he was 33 which is an indication of when a keeper is passed his peak, Casillas is similar he was in Real Madrid till he was 33-34 . Central midfielders peak around 27 till 29, for example De Bruyne that is currently playing at his best for the last 2-3 seasons ever. 

We didn't buy Kepa for so much because he was so close to his peak but because he has so many years ahead of him to further develop...is he capable of doing it well that's another question.

15 hours ago, Scott Harris said:

If the player is good, I don't care how much we spend on him, but I don't think Chilwell is good so I wouldn't want us to spend any money on him. 

Basically this.

If Chilwell was shown to be similar to a TAA or a Robertson, I have no issue spending 80m on him. But hes nowhere near top level, hes not even one top 5 fullbacks in the prem for me

58 minutes ago, Gol15 said:

That's not really true though, keepers till this day in general peak after 27 and can be at their best till after 30. Our own Cech was at his best around 28 years of age and kept going strong till he was 33 which is an indication of when a keeper is passed his peak, Casillas is similar he was in Real Madrid till he was 33-34 . Central midfielders peak around 27 till 29, for example De Bruyne that is currently playing at his best for the last 2-3 seasons ever. 

We didn't buy Kepa for so much because he was so close to his peak but because he has so many years ahead of him to further develop...is he capable of doing it well that's another question.

You are just buying into the overplayed "peak" narrative. 

Cech and Casillas were both world class keepers at 22/23. They were 100% known as world class keepers at 25. Kepa isn't even top half of the premier league standard at 25.

Maybe his peak is still 2-3 years away but that peak is still not world class, it's still not good enough. Too many people think Kepa is young and that he will develop into a world class keeper. There is no evidence for any keeper in the past 10 years making a transition that large after the age of 25.

 

(Also KDB is a weird example, he won the bundesliga player of the year in 2015 when he was 23, then was the man city player of the year at 24 and 25)

Edited June 12, 20206 yr by bisright1

As Kepa goes (in Chilwell thread) problem with him is his lack of height. That he can't change but he can learn to claim his box. That is something you can learn. I am pretty sure it is something he looks into. That takes balls, eye for timing, grit and persona. Even though he is short for a keeper, jumping Kepa is taller than anyone in the box.

Back to Chilwell. Ashley Cole and now Glen Johnson have publically backed Chilwell for Chelsea. Frank makes the ultimate call for but if Frank values their opinion he has two good votes there.

19 minutes ago, bisright1 said:

You are just buying into the overplayed "peak" narrative. 

Cech and Casillas were both world class keepers at 22/23. They were 100% known as world class keepers at 25. Kepa isn't even top half of the premier league standard at 25.

Maybe his peak is still 2-3 years away but that peak is still not world class, it's still not good enough. Too many people think Kepa is young and that he will develop into a world class keeper. There is no evidence for any keeper in the past 10 years making a transition that large after the age of 25.

 

(Also KDB is a weird example, he won the bundesliga player of the year in 2015 when he was 23, then was the man city player of the year at 24 and 25)

It's highly accepted that keepers peak around the time when their bodies reach peak as well, that would be around 30 years old. For me the peak is actually around 28-29 and it slowly goes down till they are 33 and then it's very observable that they passed their peak but the highest point IMO is actually around 28-29 years old, sure at 31 a keeper can still do everything but at that point it's based on even more experience and respect from the rest and not the actual performance.

As an individual player (not taking in count the rest of the team) Cech was much more highlighted after his injury when he was around 27-30 and De Bruyne is far more relevant today than 4 years back, that's just how it is but Kepa might not be able to get to that high level in 4 years time, maybe because he today simply isn't world class and the reach that he needs is simply far to great from where he's standing so that much I can agree on.

So taking in count that Chilwell is 23, that alone makes him really good since he's already one of the best in the league, he just might be super amazing in 3 years time. IMO he's worth 50m and I would feel that 60m paid for him is still good for us but the fact that Leicester wants 80m doesn't show to me that Chilwell is overrated, IMO that shows that they simply want to tell us to look somewhere else as they wouldn't want to lose him so soon. 

I must say it’s a bit boring reading about goalkeepers in a Chilwell thread. The premier league is so long ago I can barely remember  but I seem to recall Chilwell getting cut up by ManC and liverpuddle. Certainly from what I’ve seen chilwell is not at ash coles level. Cole commanded the left side of the pitch and his defensive positioning was mostly excellent. Other than cole chelsea have had some crap left backs over the years. It’s a position we often struggle with. 

Edited June 12, 20206 yr by ozboy

1 hour ago, ozboy said:

I must say it’s a bit boring reading about goalkeepers in a Chilwell thread. The premier league is so long ago I can barely remember  but I seem to recall Chilwell getting cut up by ManC and liverpuddle. Certainly from what I’ve seen chilwell is not at ash coles level. Cole commanded the left side of the pitch and his defensive positioning was mostly excellent. Other than cole chelsea have had some crap left backs over the years. It’s a position we often struggle with. 

Cole at 23 played in Arsenal.

 

 

Remember that when you think that Chilwell is bad cause Mahrez destroyed him one game...Mahrez is one of the best in the league.

On 11/06/2020 at 12:50, dkw said:

I don't think we should pass on signing a player because hes not as good as one of the best left backs in the modern games history, that's a ridiculously high bar. 

 

He is propped up more than his ability though due to being English, if you pay 70 mil you want a top LB, the most expensive LB ever is Lucas Hernandez to Bayern, I mean why would anyone pay 70 for Chilwell and expect his to just be decent, doesn’t make sense. 
 

He would be the second most expensive defender ever behind VVD and you see what you get for your money with him. 
 

For 70 mil he has to be Ashley level or close. If we want a good lb call up Ajax and you get as good or better than Chilwell for half the price.
 

Andy Robertson is twice the player and he came to Liverpool at 23 for 8 million, I think some more creative scouting could get us way more bang for our buck. 

Having said that if Ashley is backing him and frank wants him maybe they see something in him I don’t. 

 

16 hours ago, Gol15 said:

Cole at 23 played in Arsenal.

 

 

Remember that when you think that Chilwell is bad cause Mahrez destroyed him one game...Mahrez is one of the best in the league.

good post and I was thinking cole at 23 probably wasn’t the finished product. Cole also had character, in my view despite his tendency to play up off the field he wwas a source of resilience on the field. 

23 hours ago, Gol15 said:

It's highly accepted that keepers peak around the time when their bodies reach peak as well, that would be around 30 years old. For me the peak is actually around 28-29 and it slowly goes down till they are 33 and then it's very observable that they passed their peak but the highest point IMO is actually around 28-29 years old, sure at 31 a keeper can still do everything but at that point it's based on even more experience and respect from the rest and not the actual performance.

As an individual player (not taking in count the rest of the team) Cech was much more highlighted after his injury when he was around 27-30 and De Bruyne is far more relevant today than 4 years back, that's just how it is but Kepa might not be able to get to that high level in 4 years time, maybe because he today simply isn't world class and the reach that he needs is simply far to great from where he's standing so that much I can agree on.

So taking in count that Chilwell is 23, that alone makes him really good since he's already one of the best in the league, he just might be super amazing in 3 years time. IMO he's worth 50m and I would feel that 60m paid for him is still good for us but the fact that Leicester wants 80m doesn't show to me that Chilwell is overrated, IMO that shows that they simply want to tell us to look somewhere else as they wouldn't want to lose him so soon. 

I mean youve read absolutely nothing I've said and just parroted back nonsense. So I'll leave this conversation now. 

I find this narrative of Mahrez destroyed Chilwell so boring. Zaha ripped Azpi few seasons back when he was considered one of the best RB around, especially defensively. Does this mean now that Azpi is not a top RB because Zaha caused him loads of problems? It doesn't. He had a bad day at the office. Adama Traore ripped Robertson apart and he even confessed this himself. Does that mean we should not buy Robertson now? I understand that people think the price is too high but people saying he is an average LB, I am surprised. He is 23 years old and has shown tremendous progress. I have been a big fan for a while. He is also only going to improve. Offensively, in a few years I reckon he will be one of the best LB around. Defensively, people can't name much players bar Mahrez who have given him a hard time. Mahrez is not an average player too. He is a top winger who on his day can embarrass any defender. He has too much trickery and skill. Look at the positives he has done Chillwell. Playing for England, he was MOTM right against Croatia in the 0-0 draw and set up 3 goals against Montenegro in open play?

In the 9-0 victory this season against Southampton he scored and also assisted 2 in the game. Last season I was at the Bridge and I thought he was the best player on the pitch when they beat us 1-0. He was tremendous. Leicester keep quite a decent amount of clean sheets too and he is quite good defensively.