Its a bit of a sweeping statement, with no real answers atm, as i believe we don't have the personnel to play constant fast direct attacking football, maybe 2 or 3 times a game we collectively go Wow, or Yesss, 
Why do we get the ball forward fast on the RH side for instance then decide to play little triangles, today for instance, Reece, ziyech, Dave, then the ball goes back to a MF, look at West Brom 3rd goal, instantly wide, first time cross, brilliant goal, but it was set up for a MF, i'm thinking Lamps and Gerrard would of at least tried to convert
I've been saying for Weeks, Werner is always poised to make a darting run, are our Mis blind, i can see the pass, their Pros ffs.

We need a big overhaul of substandard players, Kova for his work and eye-catching effort is always going to be in the Starting XI, unless Mount can become that player, or we get the 'Cesc' type we so need
Front 3 next year would be  

Werner......Aguero?........Pulisic/Cho

We just need players who are confident in attacking areas, are capable and hungry to score. 

We have too many players in attack that do not fit this mould. Werner, Kovacic etc.

I see no reason why we can't play like we did against Atletico consistently. Full of pace, good movement, high energy. What's the excuse for not playing that way regularly? Are the players just not interested in playing that way against the likes of West Brom and Leeds, or are they being instructed to play differently?

24 minutes ago, KonaKai Blue said:

We just need players who are confident in attacking areas, are capable and hungry to score. 

We have too many players in attack that do not fit this mould. Werner, Kovacic etc.

Unless we have a radical re-build, and bin those two off, can't see that happening

If I was manager I would....

1) stop the tippy tappy playing it out from the back. It costs us goals and we never look comfortable doing it. Any player passing the ball to mendy would be immediately subbed and shunned. 
 

2) stop passing it around our defenders simply to keep possession. Slow sideways passing - James to azpi, azpi to  silva, silva to rudiger, rudiger to chillwell, chillwell to silva, silva to jorgi, jorgi to azpi etc etc etc has to stop. Give clear instructions that this must not happen unless we are well ahead in a game and don't need to score. 

3) Fine players who take more than 3 touches of the ball. Unless the player is Eden Hazard dancing around the Arsenal team, there is no reason for players to dwell on the ball. Move it on quickly.

4) shoot more - give clear instructions that every player (who isn't a defender) must take a minimum of 5 shots per game. Public lashings for anyone who doesn't. Hefty fines for every shot off target. 
 

5) Each player to have a quota of  10 backwards passes per game - if they exceed the limit, then they are dropped and maloudad.

6) Electric shock device in their boots. Every time a player fails to look up, spot a player making a run and attempt to play a through ball,  then they get electricity zapped through them.  I do not accept the argument that "it is hard to see players making runs" - bollocks. These are professional footballers and if they looked up, rather than simply looking to play the easy sideways option, then perhaps they would see the runs being made.  
 

So, in summary, I would implement a policy consisting of a mixture of threats, fines, public humiliation and torture, to get us out of the malaise and mindset that slow negative football is acceptable... Resulting in forward thinking, progressive and ambitious football, where we would be guaranteed to see a minimum of 25 shots per game. 
 

Roman, please remember me when tickle is sacked!

Edited April 4, 20215 yr by nonotnowjim

6 hours ago, nonotnowjim said:

If I was manager I would....

1) stop the tippy tappy playing it out from the back. It costs us goals and we never look comfortable doing it. Any player passing the ball to mendy would be immediately subbed and shunned. 
 

2) stop passing it around our defenders simply to keep possession. Slow sideways passing - James to azpi, azpi to  silva, silva to rudiger, rudiger to chillwell, chillwell to silva, silva to jorgi, jorgi to azpi etc etc etc has to stop. Give clear instructions that this must not happen unless we are well ahead in a game and don't need to score. 

3) Fine players who take more than 3 touches of the ball. Unless the player is Eden Hazard dancing around the Arsenal team, there is no reason for players to dwell on the ball. Move it on quickly.

4) shoot more - give clear instructions that every player (who isn't a defender) must take a minimum of 5 shots per game. Public lashings for anyone who doesn't. Hefty fines for every shot off target. 
 

5) Each player to have a quota of  10 backwards passes per game - if they exceed the limit, then they are dropped and maloudad.

6) Electric shock device in their boots. Every time a player fails to look up, spot a player making a run and attempt to play a through ball,  then they get electricity zapped through them.  I do not accept the argument that "it is hard to see players making runs" - bollocks. These are professional footballers and if they looked up, rather than simply looking to play the easy sideways option, then perhaps they would see the runs being made.  
 

So, in summary, I would implement a policy consisting of a mixture of threats, fines, public humiliation and torture, to get us out of the malaise and mindset that slow negative football is acceptable... Resulting in forward thinking, progressive and ambitious football, where we would be guaranteed to see a minimum of 25 shots per game. 
 

Roman, please remember me when tickle is sacked!

I Agree with all that, i thought it you composed it, cheers
This seriously impinges on the managers ethos to play, he must sanction this sh*te sideways football, we must be missing something if not, if TTs MO is possession based, then thats what he wants, but we played like that under lamps as well, i'm yet to see what this Barca-esque  Tiki-take style produces, 
Get the ball wide, get in into areas, and constantly make the defenders work, if you're good enough the strikers will profit
Get the ball quickly to Werner, and he'll work the defenders, it aint rocket science, and i'm not on £5 million a year

Edited April 4, 20215 yr by Ballack & Blu

After last summer's spending spree its annoying to say that the market is the answer but let's be honest it is.

There is still a lot of deadwood to be removed from in around this squad and we need to trim it to the best of the best and then supplement them with top tier talent. Not just up and coming players we need to scout for players that will fit TT's vision.

I think we need 4 world class players. A CB in the Dias/VVD mould. A midfielder that is a world class DM or there abouts. A clinical striker with ice in his vains for all our players to play off. Lastly the magic (playmaker most likely top tier winger) this is the one position I think we could get away without signing but may still struggle without.

A playmaker who scores and assists. Essentially to carry the team on their back I'm not saying we don't create a well oiled machine but we need that match winner. Ziyech/Kai/Timo/Pulisic/Mount could all be this but I'm not sure how consistently. In the end consistent high performers is what you need to win the league and big ears.

Aside from that I think all we can do is grind out the season with what we have atm. Unless we really have to I hope we seen minimal rotation for the rest of the season. The back 3 remains Rudi, Andreas and Cesar with Silva as back up. The midfield 2 is Kova and Kante with Jorginho and Mount utilised depending on opposition.

The wings Alonso and Chillwell roation depending on opposition. Same for the other wing James, CHO and Puli depending on opposition.

Werner, Mount, Kai, Ziyech and occasionally CHO and Puli alongside Giroud (and Tammy if he is trusted by TT). Let's give Giroud more game time since he has the best strike rate in the team. Tammy has scored the most goals (I believe) so unless he isn't favoured by TT let's give him time up top as well.

Stick to the game plan and the core of players that tend to win us games and less experimentation. Nothing against TT some players have let him down as well as previous managers. If he chooses to give them chances again and again, if they flounder well that's on him. 

Havertz, Ziyech, Hudson-Odoi, Werner and Pulisic are all less prolific in terms of goals per minute than Kurt bloody Zouma in the PL FFS .... they should all be totally ashamed and embarrassed about that stat ... and they've all had plenty of minutes ...

Collectively our attacking midfielders, wingers and forwards need to buck their bloody ideas up.  I remember Supermac from the 70s .. Malcolm Macdonald ... EXPECTED 5 chances to score every game, and EXPECTED to score two of them, not that he quite did, but that was his mindset. I don't see that sort of bluster or swagger in any of our lot.

And then there is the midfield ... Jorginho, Kante, and Kovacic do not have single goal from open play in the PL between them this season.

Kante 1903 minutes, Kovacic 1613 minutes and Jorginho 1511 minutes. They also only have 4 assists between them in all that time.

It's possible that we have a situation that the forwards look crap because they get scraps to feed off from the midfielders and the wingers and #10s ... in the same way that last year the defence was crap with Kepa behind them. Switch Kepa out for Mendy and all of a sudden the defenders look world class (WBA games apart LOL). Maybe we'd get the same thing happening with our forwards if we had a Bruno Fernandes, Fabregas, De Bruyne or Mata in the midfield ?

Then again, maybe our midfielders would have stacks of assists if they had a Haaland or Kane in front of them ?

Not having a clearly identified main striker isn't helping for sure ...

On 04/04/2021 at 03:07, Ballack & Blu said:

Its a bit of a sweeping statement, with no real answers atm, as i believe we don't have the personnel to play constant fast direct attacking football, maybe 2 or 3 times a game we collectively go Wow, or Yesss, 
Why do we get the ball forward fast on the RH side for instance then decide to play little triangles, today for instance, Reece, ziyech, Dave, then the ball goes back to a MF, look at West Brom 3rd goal, instantly wide, first time cross, brilliant goal, but it was set up for a MF, i'm thinking Lamps and Gerrard would of at least tried to convert
I've been saying for Weeks, Werner is always poised to make a darting run, are our Mis blind, i can see the pass, their Pros ffs.

We need a big overhaul of substandard players, Kova for his work and eye-catching effort is always going to be in the Starting XI, unless Mount can become that player, or we get the 'Cesc' type we so need
Front 3 next year would be  

Werner......Aguero?........Pulisic/Cho

What do you mean by improving our style? 

If you are talking why we don't create more chances, it is simple we attack with 5 players,we play slower, our attacker are not in form and probably not suited to slow football. 

I think I posted in Tuchel thread in more detail about this. 

 

Change manager, bloat the squad, sell da youf...its the chelsea way....

1 hour ago, Bob stark said:

What do you mean by improving our style? 

If you are talking why we don't create more chances, it is simple we attack with 5 players,we play slower, our attacker are not in form and probably not suited to slow football. 

I think I posted in Tuchel thread in more detail about this. 

 

Why ask the Q, wand then answer it ?, it’s obvious why I started the thread?

50 minutes ago, Ballack & Blu said:

Why ask the Q, wand then answer it ?, it’s obvious why I started the thread?

Because improving our style can mean many thing. It can mean you want us to create more or do it mean you want different style.

That was my first question, I was just making assumption it meant that creating more.

I think to create more, means changing our style, Daves default ball is 10 yrd pass to probably Reece, then back to to Dave 12 passes across the back 4, Jorgi get get it, then it ends up playing little triangles in the corner, its beyond me what we are trying to achieve, Maybe Glenn Hoddle should join the SE, and explain the thought process, because a lot of us simply don't see it, I'll say it again West Brom third goal was a thing of beauty, think Man u with Beckham, a quick touch and a ball into an area, James has that in his locker, utilise it, law of averages says defenders cant get every ball, or even Reece, or Chilly, Alonso, put the ball in quicker behind the defenders, its what Werners game is all about..

- Play with 2 CBs (T.Silva+Christensen) and bring back Chilwell and James as the first choice LB and RB respectively.

- Play with 2 wingers (Pulisic+CHO) and build the team around Mount and Havertz more centrally.

- Don't press high without the ball, press at our half of the pitch and punish the opposition fast.

- Keep possession against defensive teams and shoot more from distance, make sure that every attack ends in a shot or at least with the ball going to the opposition box.

34 minutes ago, Gol15 said:

- Play with 2 CBs (T.Silva+Christensen) and bring back Chilwell and James as the first choice LB and RB respectively.

- Play with 2 wingers (Pulisic+CHO) and build the team around Mount and Havertz more centrally.

- Don't press high without the ball, press at our half of the pitch and punish the opposition fast.

- Keep possession against defensive teams and shoot more from distance, make sure that every attack ends in a shot or at least with the ball going to the opposition box.

We don't always agree on things @Gol15, but I agree with this 100%!

 

1 hour ago, Gol15 said:

- Play with 2 CBs (T.Silva+Christensen) and bring back Chilwell and James as the first choice LB and RB respectively.

- Play with 2 wingers (Pulisic+CHO) and build the team around Mount and Havertz more centrally.

- Don't press high without the ball, press at our half of the pitch and punish the opposition fast.

- Keep possession against defensive teams and shoot more from distance, make sure that every attack ends in a shot or at least with the ball going to the opposition box.

Can't argue with most of that, but i would have kante and Mount centrally, I just don't see Havertz being able to play in a "traditional" midfield.  I would have Havertz and Werner/Abraham up front in a 2, with Havertz in behind.

1 hour ago, Gol15 said:

- Play with 2 CBs (T.Silva+Christensen) and bring back Chilwell and James as the first choice LB and RB respectively.

- Play with 2 wingers (Pulisic+CHO) and build the team around Mount and Havertz more centrally.

- Don't press high without the ball, press at our half of the pitch and punish the opposition fast.

- Keep possession against defensive teams and shoot more from distance, make sure that every attack ends in a shot or at least with the ball going to the opposition box.

 

13 minutes ago, dkw said:

-  I would have Havertz and Werner/Abraham up front in a 2, with Havertz in behind.

And most importantly stick with it and stop tinkering, its not the Thomas Tuchel show.

2 hours ago, Gol15 said:

- Don't press high without the ball, press at our half of the pitch and punish the opposition fast.

So Mourinho-football then?

Some are already complaining Tuchel's too defensive (he isn't). Some would flip out if he went all pragmatic like Mourinho or Simeone.

14 minutes ago, coco said:

 

And most importantly stick with it and stop tinkering, its not the Thomas Tuchel show.

Absolutely, it's starting to look like he's doing a bit of "look how amazing I am, I can pick anyone anywhere" isn't it.

1 hour ago, Sindre said:

So Mourinho-football then?

Some are already complaining Tuchel's too defensive (he isn't). Some would flip out if he went all pragmatic like Mourinho or Simeone.

Not really that much pragmatic but more space for a counter attack at the very least.

For example Tuchel praised Mount and others for reclaiming possession in the opposition half or in the final third but that didn't result in many goals since the opposition was already in a good defensive shape, if we just press at the center of the pitch/around our half we could then organize a fast counter attack, that would make our gameplay faster and we have players like Mount and Kante that are great at that and also Kovacic that can dribble his way as soon as we win the ball, the bottom line is faster pace, faster ball and then we will once again use CHO, Pulisic, Havertz and even Werner in the best possible way.

I think that we would benefit in the long run with a 4 backline while not pressing so high, I think it would be better than this high press with the 3 centre-backs and in all honesty if we see the type of players we have I think it's obvious that they want to run at the opposition and not to jog around endlessly with possession.

*It's time to change the slow build-up, we don't need it anymore, this last game for me was an eye opener, our players are not meant for that kind of playstyle at all and players like CHO, Pulisic and Havertz are young and full of energy, we don't need the possession around Jorginho-Kovacic anymore we need to rely on the work rate of Mount and Kante and just the hunger of CHO, Havertz and Kovacic. Heck even James and Chiwell are fit and ready to battle it out, we should give them the option to do so. 

Edited April 5, 20215 yr by Gol15
*I think we're done with the slow and heavy possession based football

2 hours ago, dkw said:

Can't argue with most of that, but i would have kante and Mount centrally, I just don't see Havertz being able to play in a "traditional" midfield.  I would have Havertz and Werner/Abraham up front in a 2, with Havertz in behind.

That's probably the best option, thanks for the great insight.

4 hours ago, dkw said:

Absolutely, it's starting to look like he's doing a bit of "look how amazing I am, I can pick anyone anywhere" isn't it.

Do people really see it this way? I'm just curious what do you guys mean like some of the cbs being moved around to different positions in the back 3 and guys like CHO at rwb or other players and positions?

On 03/04/2021 at 14:25, Scott Harris said:

I see no reason why we can't play like we did against Atletico consistently. Full of pace, good movement, high energy. What's the excuse for not playing that way regularly? Are the players just not interested in playing that way against the likes of West Brom and Leeds, or are they being instructed to play differently?

I don't either.  I mean Werner and Puli seem tailor made for this type of game and this is what Kante is used to playing with France.  Now of course the latter two are always hurt.  So maybe we don't have that ability.

Edited April 6, 20215 yr by DumbYank

21 minutes ago, DumbYank said:

I don't either.  I mean Werner and Puli seem tailor made for this type of game and this is what Kante is used to playing with France.  Now of course the latter two are always hurt.  So maybe we don't have that ability.

Yep. Kante and Kovacic were amazing against Atletico, you can see it suited them, and Werner and Pulisic are both naturally suited to pacey football, so I don't know why we don't do it more. Most of our squad would suit this style of football more, but for some reason, we just don't do it.