I am not very disappointed if we can't land Raphinha. I know next to nothing of him. We have played 4-6 times against them in the Prem and I have to remind myself what he even looks like....for a Brazilian player his price seems steep to me.

8 hours ago, SydneyChelsea said:

First, we need to understand that Barcelona relies on broadcasting and match-day revenue. Their commercial deals (merchandising etc.) is comparatively small compared to EPL clubs

I'm very surprised to read this. I had always understood that their commercial operations were very strong. Indeed I can't see how they can have achieved the incredible turnover figures they reached without very strong commercial income. No way ticket sales and TV can form the bulk of seven, eight, or nine hundred, million Euro revenue seasons. Obviously the Neymar income was in there along the way but I remember when Bara were confidently predicting that they would become the first club to achieve a turnover of more than one billion Euros. I know they sell a lot of tickets but even if theirs were the most expensive seats in the world, which they are not - not even close, no way that get's them anywhere near that sort of number.

8 hours ago, SydneyChelsea said:

That said, it's ridiculous that UEFA/FIFA still allow Barcelona to engage in transfer dealings when they cannot legally register their players.

Interesting. Are those bodies actually allowed to prevent clubs arranging and completing transfers? I always thought that the sanction available to regulators was to prevent clubs registering players.

3 minutes ago, OhForAGreavsie said:

I'm very surprised to read this. I had always understood that their commercial operations were very strong. Indeed I can't see how they can have achieved the incredible turnover figures they reached without very strong commercial income. No way ticket sales and TV can form the bulk of seven, eight, or nine hundred, million Euro revenue seasons. Obviously the Neymar income was in there along the way but I remember when Bara were confidently predicting that they would become the first club to achieve a turnover of more than one billion Euros. I know they sell a lot of tickets but even if theirs were the most expensive seats in the world, which they are not - not even close, no way that get's them anywhere near that sort of number.

Interesting. Are those bodies actually allowed to prevent clubs arranging and completing transfers? I always thought that the sanction available to regulators was to prevent clubs registering players.

If the rumours are right to generate cash they have not only mortgaged their retail operations but now in effect sold off 20% of 5heir future TVrevenues.

They really are in a mess

15 minutes ago, terraloon said:

If the rumours are right to generate cash they have not only mortgaged their retail operations but now in effect sold off 20% of 5heir future TVrevenues.

They really are in a mess

Leveraging future TV revenues is a well trodden path for football clubs in trouble and you are right, Barca have been, and are, in deep trouble. I was only querying whether or not they have strong commercial revenues. I'd say they absolutely must have or they could not have achieved the monster turnover figures reported by Deloitte annually .

Edited July 4, 20224 yr by OhForAGreavsie

23 minutes ago, OhForAGreavsie said:

I'm very surprised to read this. I had always understood that their commercial operations were very strong. Indeed I can't see how they can have achieved the incredible turnover figures they reached without very strong commercial income. No way ticket sales and TV can form the bulk of seven, eight, or nine hundred, million Euro revenue seasons. Obviously the Neymar income was in there along the way but I remember when Bara were confidently predicting that they would become the first club to achieve a turnover of more than one billion Euros. I know they sell a lot of tickets but even if theirs were the most expensive seats in the world, which they are not - not even close, no way that get's them anywhere near that sort of number.

A good pick-up. This Deloitte article from 2020, spruiking Barcelona's success, tells us the devil was in the details. Barcelona moved their merchandising and licensing operations in-house instead of contracting external parties as they had always done, allowing them to report revenue as gross and not net.

Now, Laporta has insinuated that Bartomeu was cooking the books, and the club were nowhere near the rosy financial picture that Bartomeu was selling. Ferran Reverter, one of Barcelona's new execs, commissioned an audit by Deloitte in 2021 and claimed that the club were actually technically bankrupt and Bartomeu was selling snake oil to fans and stakeholders.

If Barcelona's revenue was as healthy as they claimed it was under Bartomeu, re-negotiating the terms of the debt should have been the only problem as the revenue would have kept balance with their player expenses. It is difficult to tell what is truth and what is PR/politics, but it is reason enough to think that Barcelona was not as financially healthy as they publicly reported in the past.

 

26 minutes ago, OhForAGreavsie said:

Interesting. Are those bodies actually allowed to prevent clubs arranging and completing transfers? I always thought that the sanction available to regulators was to prevent clubs registering players.

FIFA governs the global status and transfer of players - they regulate movement of players, and give permission for players to move from one place to another. Leagues give permission for a club to play a player in a particular competition. FIFA can ban a club from conducting transfers, while a League can't stop transfers but can refuse to register a transferred player.

FIFA also indirectly influence domestic Leagues because a condition of being endorsed by FIFA is signing up to their rules. When we received our transfer ban, the FA also got fined because they allowed the registration of the players we allegedly signed illegally.

Since La Liga has unequivocally ruled that Barcelona can't register their new signings, it makes little sense for FIFA to continue to allow Barcelona to operate in the transfer market.

Not sure what‘s the problem is other than Raphinha having Barca as his fav club to play at - which after all isn‘t surprising. What‘s humiliating about making a signing for a competitor max expensive? If we hadn‘t stepped in Barca would have likely gotten him way cheaper. Assuming he really ends up there. Making him more expensive makes it also harder to keep Dembele who we also had/have an eye on so there is that as well. 

1 hour ago, SydneyChelsea said:

FIFA governs the global status and transfer of players - they regulate movement of players, and give permission for players to move from one place to another. Leagues give permission for a club to play a player in a particular competition. FIFA can ban a club from conducting transfers, while a League can't stop transfers but can refuse to register a transferred player

I'm happy to be corrected of course but, as I understand it, this is not accurate. fifa cannot prevent a club conducting transfers. It can only prevent them registering players. In practice the one will prevent the other but nevertheless that is the situation since preventing a business employing people who are legally entitled to be employed would be against the law. fifa, and national associations, can though deny such players permission to play. When people talk about transfer bans they are speaking casually. Such sanctions are actually registration bans.

Edited July 4, 20224 yr by OhForAGreavsie

21 hours ago, Frankie8Lampard said:

I don't think its fair to call it amateurish. I'm sure Raphina is interested in us (otherwise we wouldn't have made a bid) but he's trying to have his cake and eat it too by stalling negotiations incase Barca can afford him. He wants Barca but he doesn't want to completely reject us incase that move doesn't work. Which is why I now hope we go for someone else, Barca can't afford him and he ends up getting left in the dust on Leeds by the end of the window.

The thing is, there's a reason teams are usually so careful not to be conspicuously rejected by a player, their PR teams going into "well we didn't want him anyway" overdrive when such an episode does occur.

Putting in a formal bid like Boehly has done with Raphinha, without a clandestine certainty that the player is going to immediately accept the offer, quite simply is an act of considerable naivety and amateurism, given that Boehly failed to interpret the player's true position beforehand.

Edited July 4, 20224 yr by Fatty_Speeding

3 hours ago, Fatty_Speeding said:

The thing is, there's a reason teams are usually so careful not to be conspicuously rejected by a player, their PR teams going into "well we didn't want him anyway" overdrive when such an episode does occur.

Putting in a formal bid like Boehly has done with Raphinha, without a clandestine certainty that the player is going to immediately accept the offer, quite simply is an act of considerable naivety and amateurism, given that Boehly failed to interpret the player's true position beforehand.

I mean we don't know the details of the transfer. Its possible Raphina's camp either misled them or changed their mind when they found out that Barca are selling their TV rights. The fact the club are negotiating with Sterling before launching an official bid shows that thing weren't clear from Raphna's camp's end rather than it being a way how they operate business.

14 hours ago, OhForAGreavsie said:

I'm happy to be corrected of course but, as I understand it, this is not accurate. fifa cannot prevent a club conducting transfers. It can only prevent them registering players. In practice the one will prevent the other but nevertheless that is the situation since preventing a business employing people who are legally entitled to be employed would be against the law. fifa, and national associations, can though deny such players permission to play. When people talk about transfer bans they are speaking casually. Such sanctions are actually registration bans.

You're correct in that FIFA can't actually prevent the physical movement or monetary employment of players, however, they absolutely can stop the person being employed as a professional footballer. Only registered players can take part in organised events within a Football Association.  Clubs of course can negotiate and arrange for the relocation of anyone, but they have to follow FIFA's regulations to be employed in a footballing capacity. 

There are also two levels of registration that are relevant here - registration to a club/FA, and registration to a League. In most countries the domestic league compeition is a different corporate entity to the country's FA (ie in Spain, RFEF and La Liga are two different entities) and as a result leagues are permitted to have more stringent requirements for players eligible to play in their competition - giving them the power to regulate anything from a salary cap to concussion/injury protocols.

As La Liga's salary cap is league-level, there is nothing stopping Barcelona from registering Christensen, Kessie etc. to their club and RFEF, but they cannot be registered to play in La Liga under the current situation.

My view is that if a club cannot register any players to play in their domestic league they should be prevented from acquiring those players by FIFA, as it is analogous to trading while insolvent. Although, others have pointed out that while La Liga is restricted, there is no reason why Barcelona cannot register their signings for other competitions such as the RFEF's cup competitions or the Champions League.

27 minutes ago, SydneyChelsea said:

You're correct in that FIFA can't actually prevent the physical movement or monetary employment of players, however, they absolutely can stop the person being employed as a professional footballer. Only registered players can take part in organised events within a Football Association.  Clubs of course can negotiate and arrange for the relocation of anyone, but they have to follow FIFA's regulations to be employed in a footballing capacity. 

There are also two levels of registration that are relevant here - registration to a club/FA, and registration to a League. In most countries the domestic league compeition is a different corporate entity to the country's FA (ie in Spain, RFEF and La Liga are two different entities) and as a result leagues are permitted to have more stringent requirements for players eligible to play in their competition - giving them the power to regulate anything from a salary cap to concussion/injury protocols.

As La Liga's salary cap is league-level, there is nothing stopping Barcelona from registering Christensen, Kessie etc. to their club and RFEF, but they cannot be registered to play in La Liga under the current situation.

My view is that if a club cannot register any players to play in their domestic league they should be prevented from acquiring those players by FIFA, as it is analogous to trading while insolvent. Although, others have pointed out that while La Liga is restricted, there is no reason why Barcelona cannot register their signings for other competitions such as the RFEF's cup competitions or the Champions League.

Does Barcelona violate any fifa or uefa rule though? 

I wonder why Barca have not closed out this deal yet? They had a bid accepted by Leeds a few days back yet nothing, and also nothing more on Dembele either just their free signings announced. How odd.

6 minutes ago, axman2526 said:

I wonder why Barca have not closed out this deal yet? They had a bid accepted by Leeds a few days back yet nothing, and also nothing more on Dembele either just their free signings announced. How odd.

They've just asked De Jong to take a pay cut and he refused. 

 

2 minutes ago, Sconnie Blue said:

They've just asked De Jong to take a pay cut and he refused. 

 

I know it seems unlikely but are Barca using Raphinha to force Dembele to sign up on reduced terms?

1 minute ago, axman2526 said:

I know it seems unlikely but are Barca using Raphinha to force Dembele to sign up on reduced terms?

Who knows? But I haven't seen any confirmation from Leeds that a bid has been accepted. Laporta hinted at it last week, but if that was the case you would think that the deal would have been wrapped up over the weekend. I think they are still trying to low-ball Leeds, and are perhaps trying to convince Raphinha to stay there until the next window at least. I am not convinced they will have the money by then though either.  

1 minute ago, forbzy said:

Who knows? But I haven't seen any confirmation from Leeds that a bid has been accepted. Laporta hinted at it last week, but if that was the case you would think that the deal would have been wrapped up over the weekend. I think they are still trying to low-ball Leeds, and are perhaps trying to convince Raphinha to stay there until the next window at least. I am not convinced they will have the money by then though either.  

The De Jong situation is interesting there too. He apparently rejected and pay cut and intends to stay put, Barca want him to stay bit reduce his wages and if he does not they may be forced to sell him but he could refuse to go and thar could scuttle their plans for Lewa and Raphinha. What a mess of a club.

Just now, axman2526 said:

The De Jong situation is interesting there too. He apparently rejected and pay cut and intends to stay put, Barca want him to stay bit reduce his wages and if he does not they may be forced to sell him but he could refuse to go and thar could scuttle their plans for Lewa and Raphinha. What a mess of a club.

Yeah its already been confirmed de jong doesnt want to move/go to utd

eriksen is better anyway

eriksen malacia and some forward look likly

busier than us and we need bledy loads of players

8 deadwood players, 1 or 2 gone and its pre season, Keep the faith but its getting stinky

i told you all barca are taking the pezz!

10 minutes ago, Kantesmini said:

Yeah its already been confirmed de jong doesnt want to move/go to utd

eriksen is better anyway

eriksen malacia and some forward look likly

busier than us and we need bledy loads of players

8 deadwood players, 1 or 2 gone and its pre season, Keep the faith but its getting stinky

i told you all barca are taking the pezz!

It sounds like you would not be a happy bunny if we failed to sign anyone.

15 minutes ago, axman2526 said:

The De Jong situation is interesting there too. He apparently rejected and pay cut and intends to stay put, Barca want him to stay bit reduce his wages and if he does not they may be forced to sell him but he could refuse to go and thar could scuttle their plans for Lewa and Raphinha. What a mess of a club.

That makes sense and may explain why they have made no progress with Raphinha the last few days. If De Jong is under contract they cannot force him to move to a club if he doesn't want to go, and certainly they cannot force him to take a paycut. 

24 minutes ago, axman2526 said:

I know it seems unlikely but are Barca using Raphinha to force Dembele to sign up on reduced terms?

They may be banking everything on De Jong leaving to United to get most of their deals done. 

hope this despicable club goes down

16 minutes ago, axman2526 said:

It sounds like you would not be a happy bunny if we failed to sign anyone.

Its the journey over the last few years, and seeing us an inch from winning the PL along with the CL all we needed was that sweet transfer window last summer and we would of been right amongst it, did a load of half arsed biz and the latest season was piss poor for us although not rare

If were not going to be competitive with transfers like we were all told we would be and we end up using all our youth (which for us would be great) then they lied and I'd like to know as a member whether its going to a long drab boring season finishing outside the top 4 as we struggle and facepalm over coulda woulda shouldas

It will be scences, Absolute scences if we're cutting every club down like conan the barbarian using our younger lads but it could easily be a relegation battle!

Ofc january could be the saviour but to me, if you spend £4.25B on a club but then dont bring in some amazing players without issues, It doesnt look great at all

If they do a glazers its all over, Maybe they dont care about keeping us right up top as they think they can bring in whats needed financially regardless but this is chelsea not utd

takes me back to before roman days

 

1 minute ago, Kantesmini said:

Its the journey over the last few years, and seeing us an inch from winning the PL along with the CL all we needed was that sweet transfer window last summer and we would of been right amongst it, did a load of half arsed biz and the latest season was piss poor for us although not rare

If were not going to be competitive with transfers like we were all told we would be and we end up using all our youth (which for us would be great) then they lied and I'd like to know as a member whether its going to a long drab boring season finishing outside the top 4 as we struggle and facepalm over coulda woulda shouldas

It will be scences, Absolute scences if we're cutting every club down like conan the barbarian using our younger lads but it could easily be a relegation battle!

Ofc january could be the saviour but to me, if you spend £4.25B on a club but then dont bring in some amazing players without issues, It doesnt look great at all

If they do a glazers its all over, Maybe they dont care about keeping us right up top as they think they can bring in whats needed financially regardless but this is chelsea not utd

takes me back to before roman days

 

2 minutes ago, axman2526 said:

I will have to get the reaction-o-meter out

'stretches fingers'

1 player in and not a defender - facepalm

2 players in, No defenders - Hands coming away from face

3 players in, 1 defender - eyebrows raised 

4 players in, 2 defenders - getting steak ready

5 players in, 2 defenders - Sizzling 

6 players in, plus 1/2/3 youth intergrated - Wagyu fillet and chips ohhh babyy its back to the glory days because the chels are serious this year and aiint nobody shutting this ship down!

5 minutes ago, Kantesmini said:

I will have to get the reaction-o-meter out

'stretches fingers'

1 player in and not a defender - facepalm

2 players in, No defenders - Hands coming away from face

3 players in, 1 defender - eyebrows raised 

4 players in, 2 defenders - getting steak ready

5 players in, 2 defenders - Sizzling 

6 players in, plus 1/2/3 youth intergrated - Wagyu fillet and chips ohhh babyy its back to the glory days because the chels are serious this year and aiint nobody shutting this ship down!