3 hours ago, Frankie8Lampard said:

If he wants Barca so bad we should honestly just forget about him and find someone else. We don't need another Lukaku situation where the player ends up wanting to leave midway through the season. Like any Chelsea fan I don't like Leeds however I do respect the way they have conducted business in this situation despit Barca trying to play dirty this transfer window.

Yeah I agree, was excited about him a few days ago but this whole Barca thing is really souring it. Especially as he's only had one season in the Premier League, he's not exactly proven world class

Now it looks Raphina and Dembele are Barca bound, I really hope we don’t end up with B-class signings. Over paying for average players. 

1 hour ago, JM7 said:

Now it looks Raphina and Dembele are Barca bound, I really hope we don’t end up with B-class signings. Over paying for average players. 

There is an argument to say that both Raphina and Dembele (and Richarlison aka the Brazillian Stuart Downing) would all be B class signings, and over priced B class signings at that.

The truth is that there is a dearth of world class "A class" wingers/attackers around, and even less that are readily available.  That means we either:

(i) do something stupid like throw a lot of money at a potentially washed up developed superstar (Neymar, Hazard?);

(ii)overspend on uncommitted/unproven  B class wannabes (Dembele, Downing, Raphina);

(iii) try to get someone else that is already developed on the cheap (Gnabry?);

(iv)try to unearth the next gem (De la Vega or some other fifa starlet).

Option 3 is the sensible one....I fear we go with option 1.

 

 

4 minutes ago, nonotnowjim said:

There is an argument to say that both Raphina and Dembele (and Richarlison aka the Brazillian Stuart Downing) would all be B class signings, and over priced B class signings at that.

The truth is that there is a dearth of world class "A class" wingers/attackers around, and even less that are readily available.  That means we either:

(i) do something stupid like throw a lot of money at a potentially washed up developed superstar (Neymar, Hazard?);

(ii)overspend on uncommitted/unproven  B class wannabes (Dembele, Downing, Raphina);

(iii) try to get someone else that is already developed on the cheap (Gnabry?);

(iv)try to unearth the next gem (De la Vega or some other fifa starlet).

Option 3 is the sensible one....I fear we go with option 1.

 

 

Yeah the problem with option 1 is that is rarely works and it’s a “big name” - but in reality they offer very little to the squad. 

10 hours ago, Drogba1 said:

Yeah I agree, was excited about him a few days ago but this whole Barca thing is really souring it. Especially as he's only had one season in the Premier League, he's not exactly proven world class

All the more reason for him to pursue his dream of joining Barca while his stock is high. Who knows, he might get exposed next season and then his chance would be gone.

We have to understand that every player in his or her early twenties were impressionable kids during the glory days of Fútbol Club Barcelona. Perhaps the greatest period ever enjoyed by any club. Certainly the greatest since Real's five European cups in a row*. The allure of FCB is great and the rest of us just have to do the best we can to work around it.

 

*An overrated achievement by the way but that's a different subject.

Edited July 3, 20224 yr by OhForAGreavsie

20 hours ago, d-one said:

I will rather take Belotti on a free than pay 60m for Richarlison. That would be a compensation for paying over the odds for lukaku

It's a reasonable take but my worry with it is that Antonio had that choice but chose to spend the £60m. Fair to say though that Tottenham's positional needs are different to ours.

Edited July 3, 20224 yr by OhForAGreavsie

14 hours ago, SydneyChelsea said:

...exactly as the majority of transfers are done in the Premier League as the EPL rules require consent from the club to approach their player 

We could have just contacted Deco and inquire, agents talk to clubs all the time. Deco would have said don't bother, Raphinha is only interested in Barca and that would be the end of it. Instead we ended up being publicly humiliated.

20 minutes ago, abramovich said:

We could have just contacted Deco and inquire, agents talk to clubs all the time. Deco would have said don't bother, Raphinha is only interested in Barca and that would be the end of it. Instead we ended up being publicly humiliated.

I don't think we would of openly 'bid' for him without at least thinking there is a chance, surely Chelsea aren't that stupid?

Maybe it looked like the original Barca deal was looking unlikely and Rafinha was suddenly interested in us, only for Barca to again try and push the deal again as it looked like we would get him, which has delayed his response to Chelsea and turned his head again.

I dunno, we can only speculate, but I think the only thing we can get from this is that Barca are messing around and don't seem to be landing any of their other transfer targets as of yet, and can't afford to offer current players new contracts let alone pay the full amount for a good player. I think they have their fingers in too many pies, and can't afford to do everything they look like they want to do.

Edited July 3, 20224 yr by AlwaysRight

7 hours ago, JM7 said:

Now it looks Raphina and Dembele are Barca bound, I really hope we don’t end up with B-class signings. Over paying for average players. 

I was never keen on either.

18 minutes ago, AlwaysRight said:

I don't think we would of openly 'bid' for him without at least thinking there is a chance, surely Chelsea aren't that stupid?

Maybe it looked like the original Barca deal was looking unlikely and Rafinha was suddenly interested in us, only for Barca to again try and push the deal again as it looked like we would get him, which has delayed his response to Chelsea and turned his head again.

I dunno, we can only speculate, but I think the only thing we can get from this is that Barca are messing around and don't seem to be landing any of their other transfer targets as of yet, and can't afford to offer current players new contracts let alone pay the full amount for a good player. I think they have their fingers in too many pies, and can't afford to do everything they look like they want to do.

It’s extremely rare a transfer doesn’t proceed after the fee is agreed bar a fitness issue. So the question is, did we make contact with Deco to see if Raphina was open to a switch? 

7 minutes ago, charierre said:

It’s extremely rare a transfer doesn’t proceed after the fee is agreed bar a fitness issue. So the question is, did we make contact with Deco to see if Raphina was open to a switch? 

Think only Matt Law would know the answer. 

I think there's a couple of things which could have happened. One he was resigned to the fact that Barcelona couldn't afford him and was open to joining Chelsea before Barcelona re-entered the race for his signature. Or Raphinha and deco played us, indicated that he was open to the switch to Chelsea so that we submitted a bid to force Barcelona to act.

5 hours ago, nonotnowjim said:

There is an argument to say that both Raphina and Dembele (and Richarlison aka the Brazillian Stuart Downing) would all be B class signings, and over priced B class signings at that.

The truth is that there is a dearth of world class "A class" wingers/attackers around, and even less that are readily available.  That means we either:

(i) do something stupid like throw a lot of money at a potentially washed up developed superstar (Neymar, Hazard?);

(ii)overspend on uncommitted/unproven  B class wannabes (Dembele, Downing, Raphina);

(iii) try to get someone else that is already developed on the cheap (Gnabry?);

(iv)try to unearth the next gem (De la Vega or some other fifa starlet).

Option 3 is the sensible one....I fear we go with option 1.

 

 

Could always try one of our own as an option to, like Harvey Vale.

21 minutes ago, charierre said:

It’s extremely rare a transfer doesn’t proceed after the fee is agreed bar a fitness issue. So the question is, did we make contact with Deco to see if Raphina was open to a switch? 

This what you get when the owner & coach are playing football manager. Why he hasn’t appointed a Sporting Director is beyond me. We look like we don’t know what we are doing.

I reckon it’s either Dembele or Raphinha for Barca not both. If Dembele agrees to a new contract they will walk away from Raphinha.

 

The real question is, how the club that only a year earlier was on a brink of a financial ruin and even now still has trouble registering players even on a free could just come up with 60m fee for Raphinha on top of shelling out huge wages to their other players?

I can understand that there are plenty of players that are still drawn to Barca because of the prestige and history but as far as finances are concerned something very dodgy is gong on down at Catalonia.

Summer of 2022, ‘The Barcelona transfer window’

 

3 hours ago, abramovich said:

We could have just contacted Deco and inquire, agents talk to clubs all the time. Deco would have said don't bother, Raphinha is only interested in Barca and that would be the end of it. Instead we ended up being publicly humiliated.

That's a bit dramatic isn't it ?

How have we been "publicly humiliated" ? We made an offer, so did Barcelona, and the player has opted for the latter. Sounds like a pretty normal scenario to me, Win some, lose some and all that.

Were we also publicly humiliated when transfer targets in the Roman era opted to go somewhere else, or stay where they were ?

 

2 hours ago, ducavis said:

This what you get when the owner & coach are playing football manager. Why he hasn’t appointed a Sporting Director is beyond me. We look like we don’t know what we are doing.

I reckon it’s either Dembele or Raphinha for Barca not both. If Dembele agrees to a new contract they will walk away from Raphinha.

 

But they know that Dembele is made of glass. So getting him for 40% of his salary as a back up to Raphinha makes sense I suppose. They can pander to Dembele's ego knowing he'll only play half a season at best.

remember arsenal fans pivoting to Gnabry because Raphinha isn't coming?

"Understand Arsenal are not working to sign Serge Gnabry. He’s not in the list, as things stand - Arsenal are now focused on different targets"

-Fabrizio Romano 

17 minutes ago, Sexyfootball said:

That's a bit dramatic isn't it ?

How have we been "publicly humiliated" ? We made an offer, so did Barcelona, and the player has opted for the latter. Sounds like a pretty normal scenario to me, Win some, lose some and all that.

Were we also publicly humiliated when transfer targets in the Roman era opted to go somewhere else, or stay where they were ?

 

No, normally we weren't  publicly humiliated when transfer targets in the Roman era opted to go somewhere else, or stay put. You know why? Because usually it was the club that would turn down the bid while the player wanted it to happen (Gerrard, Stones, Modric etc) 

This is a complete opposite of the current scenario which makes us look bad. If only Boehly and Co did their homework before sending in a bid for someone who never wanted to join us in the first place, we wouldn't be in that mess.

Wouldn't it be funny if he turns out to be the new Malcolm for Barcelona 

5 hours ago, Term_X said:

Summer of 2022, ‘The Barcelona transfer window’

 

Literally, and the worst part is they don't even have money. 

I'm sure it's already been said, but it really seems like Boehly let himself get comprehensively played by the Raphinha camp here. So readily and publicly diving headfirst into putting in a formal bid, when Raphinha is clearly nowhere near done twerking for Barcelona yet, has made himself and the club look considerably amateurish.

I suspect what will have happened is that Boehly checked in with Raphinha's camp before placing the bid, and Raphinha's camp will naturally have informed him that Raphinha is open to joining Chelsea, given that Chelsea's aggressive interest improves their own negotiating position with Barcelona. To take their word at face value is very naive indeed.

15 minutes ago, Fatty_Speeding said:

I'm sure it's already been said, but it really seems like Boehly let himself get comprehensively played by the Raphinha camp here. So readily and publicly diving headfirst into putting in a formal bid, when Raphinha is clearly nowhere near done twerking for Barcelona yet, has made himself and the club look considerably amateurish.

I suspect what will have happened is that Boehly checked in with Raphinha's camp before placing the bid, and Raphinha's camp will naturally have informed him that Raphinha is open to joining Chelsea, given that Chelsea's aggressive interest improves their own negotiating position with Barcelona. To take their word at face value is very naive indeed.

I don't think its fair to call it amateurish. I'm sure Raphina is interested in us (otherwise we wouldn't have made a bid) but he's trying to have his cake and eat it too by stalling negotiations incase Barca can afford him. He wants Barca but he doesn't want to completely reject us incase that move doesn't work. Which is why I now hope we go for someone else, Barca can't afford him and he ends up getting left in the dust on Leeds by the end of the window.

7 hours ago, abramovich said:

The real question is, how the club that only a year earlier was on a brink of a financial ruin and even now still has trouble registering players even on a free could just come up with 60m fee for Raphinha on top of shelling out huge wages to their other players?

I can understand that there are plenty of players that are still drawn to Barca because of the prestige and history but as far as finances are concerned something very dodgy is gong on down at Catalonia.

They are still on the brink of financial ruin, but it is a bit more complicated than that. There were two separate problems that the media conflated.

First, we need to understand that Barcelona relies on broadcasting and match-day revenue. Their commercial deals (merchandising etc.) is comparatively small compared to EPL clubs, let alone Real Madrid, but they increased this dramatically under Bartomeu, leveraging Messi's success. Following the pandemic and shutdowns, the floor fell through on these revenue streams with Barcelona basically needed to survive on its meagre media and commercial revenue streams.

The first problem was that Barcelona accumulated around €1.4bn debt through their absurdly unsuccessful transfer dealings. Two things happened last year - the favourable terms of that debt expired and the shutdowns happened, meaning that long-term debt became unserviceable and Barcelona had to withold wages in January 2021 to make payments. Barcelona renegotiated terms with Goldman Sachs to resolve the debt issue and have more favourable payment terms. Since debt is not a problem unless it is unserviceable - we had even more debt (£1.5bn!) to Abramovich! - this problem was resolved and Barcelona though that would be the end of the issue, except...

Need to backtrack a bit for some context and think about Barcelona's transfer dealings. Not a single one of their high-profile, big-money signings was a success. In fact, until Pedri, Gavi and Aubameyang, they arguably have not had a single unqualified transfer success since 2016. They squandered all the Champions' League money, all the Neymar money and then some on players like Malcom, Pjanic, Lenglet, Coutinho, Griezmann...the list goes on. The worst bit, of course, is they were all on insanely high wages. 

Barcelona under Laporta, Rjikaard and Guardiola had a way of signing players cheap (tapping them up to run down their contracts). This netted them the likes of Deco, Henry, Fabregas, Pique, Mascherano etc. all on decent fees and below-par wages. Bartomeu threw out that playbook, and flaunted the fact that Barcelona were flush with cash, meaning virtually every side they dealt with screwed them on transfer fees and every player's agent, on wages. Bartomeu thought he could simply amortise this off through the then-serviceable debt, win a trophy here or there, and he would never have to worry about the La Liga salary cap provided revenue was still growing.

So COVID hits, the shutdowns happen and again the bottom falls through Barcelona's business model. The La Liga salary cap means that wages are tied to revenue, not assets, and suddenly Barcelona's failings come home to roost. They can continue. technically, to buy and sign players, but they cannot register them, and without Messi, they are stripped of around 30% of their commercial revenue stream to boot. Unlike a Madrid or Man United, who leveraged their success and star players to remain commercially successful in their lean years, Barcelona's recent success has been centred around a particular player. Barcelona relied first on Ronaldinho and then Messi for commercial success, whereas Madrid and United became 'independently wealthy' of the likes of Beckham and Ronaldo.

As much as I enjoy Barcelona's suffering, a deeper examination of La Liga's salary cap rules might warrant some sympathy. Barcelona are trying to football their way out of a commercial crisis but the league's rules do not let them. It's akin to digging a hole but with one hand tied behind your back. They can sell players and offset their asset debt, but only 25% of that revenue can be used to offset a wage bill. It is a system that benefits Real Madrid above all other clubs. 

That said, it's ridiculous that UEFA/FIFA still allow Barcelona to engage in transfer dealings when they cannot legally register their players. La Liga have confirmed this and have said there will be no exceptions or considerations, yet UEFA/FIFA effectively allow them to operate in a transfer ban.

So in short, fees are not the issue, provided the fee can be paid in installements, but wages are. My guess is that Laporta is back-loading many players contracts, with wages tied to increases in revenue, and agents have their players lapping it up. I think it is very much still a house of cards for Barcelona but the real threat is maybe 1-2 years away and not as imminent as people think.