June 17, 20242 yr 15 hours ago, axman2526 said: While Jorgi is better at short range passing Enzo also has superb vision, as well as long and short range passing. Making his more or less a quarter back in this role picking up the best options. This he’s the player who should be starting all our attacks, his vision and passing range means he should be our DLP, dictating the play and spreading the ball around.
June 17, 20242 yr Author 4 hours ago, El regreso said: This he’s the player who should be starting all our attacks, his vision and passing range means he should be our DLP, dictating the play and spreading the ball around. Poch has blood on his hands honestly. The mis profiling of footballers and his dinosaur tactics was straight terrorism.
June 17, 20242 yr 1 hour ago, Sconnie Blue said: Poch has blood on his hands honestly. The mis profiling of footballers and his dinosaur tactics was straight terrorism. Him reportedly letting Enzo go to the Olympics was blatantly his master plan to freeze him out.
June 17, 20242 yr https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/enzo-fernandez/leistungsdaten/spieler/648195 Enzo has played 30 games in a central midfield or defensive midfield position. 8 as an attacking midfielder. I cant remember when he started on the the wing or near the wing. Please, prove me wrong. Cheers.
June 17, 20242 yr On 15/06/2024 at 14:04, timetowaste said: We saw it quite a lot, which was one of the reasons why Caicedo was so isolated in a lot of games. We'd get possession, start the build up process and Enzo would be in a forward or wide position. The Potter/Lampard season was shocking but Enzo was a rare bright spark because he was being allowed to do what he does best which is sit a bit deeper and dictate the play much like Kroos was doing last night. That's not to say I think everything was Poch's fault, but how he was being asked to play was the main reason (in my opinion) why he didn't was because of how he was asked to play. I simply look at it as though the manager was trying to accommodate him in the side further forward, but I can only remember a handful of games where he started further up the pitch, it didn't work and he was restored alongside Caicedo. I'd argue there is a massive difference in playing guatamala, and in the premierhsip. There is no time in the premiership. I think that's been his biggest issue, the EPL is unmerciful in its pace to close down players and the lovely flicks and reverse passes dont come off and possession breaks down. And in team sports, yes, there is a need to accommodate skillsets in players, but the player himself needs to be disciplined in his position wherever hes asked to play. Asking two players to change their games to accomodate Enzo means the team will lose out in other areas caicedo or Gallagher ecxcel at. Like I say, its a conundrum for the new man to work out. Hope he does. But its also fair and reasonable to think that some players wont migrate - hes a fan favourite and therefore gets a different ride on here to those who many want to sell. Cool, hope he finds consistent form and time on the ball to play his game this season under a new manager. Will leave you all to it...
June 17, 20242 yr 29 minutes ago, bluetrooper said: https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/enzo-fernandez/leistungsdaten/spieler/648195 Enzo has played 30 games in a central midfield or defensive midfield position. 8 as an attacking midfielder. I cant remember when he started on the the wing or near the wing. Please, prove me wrong. Cheers. In these days a lot of fullbacks don't play in centre midfield on paper but spend most of the game inverting into that position due to the coaches instructions. Same applies.
June 17, 20242 yr I am confused with all this analysis on Enzo. 1. Enzo was never used part of pivot The plan has always been to use Enzo as dm. It is not exactly ideal because he is terrible defensively which is why he was pushed forward early in the season. Defending as attacker is mostly about effort, as a 10 you need to understand angle but effort is the most important. As midifeld, you need to understand a lot more than that because you are protecting dangerous area. 2. Inverted fb is the key to unlock enzo The idea to play inverted fb is that it is easier for the fb to get back to his fb area defensively. I don't understand how this will unlock enzo. 3. Having Caicedo in midfield by himself is stupid. How you do build up depend on your opp. 4. I want Enzo to play as qb. Enzo has ability to make all kind of pass with all kind of tempo but he need to learn when to go short, when to go long, where the ball need to go. You preferably want a senior player where he can learn this from and this comes with experience because it change game to game, minutes to minutes. Edited June 17, 20242 yr by Bob stark
June 17, 20242 yr 22 hours ago, axman2526 said: For me Enzo would be best used in a Jorginho esc sort of role, similar to what Caicedo was deployed as after Enzo had his surgery Enzo is far better passer than jorgi at any range. Technically Enzo is light years above jorgi. But in term of understanding of the game jorgi is so much better. Defensively, Jorgi is a horrible athlete, Enzo is below average, but once again jorgi know where to be, Enzo on the other hand is 😵💫😵💫😵💫
June 17, 20242 yr 17 minutes ago, Argo said: In these days a lot of fullbacks don't play in centre midfield on paper but spend most of the game inverting into that position due to the coaches instructions. Same applies. Last post from me on this thread. It's an interesting take, but I think these midfielders are all doing what midfielders do. https://www.sofascore.com/player/conor-gallagher/904970 https://www.sofascore.com/player/enzo-fernandez/974505 https://www.sofascore.com/player/moises-caicedo/987650 https://www.sofascore.com/player/declan-rice/856714 https://www.sofascore.com/player/alexis-mac-allister/895324 https://www.sofascore.com/player/bruno-guimaraes/866469 What is the best position for Enzo to play? who plays alongside him and what parts of their game does the team need to sacrifice to accommodate him? The conundrum for the new manager is how to improve Enzo and get him playing consitantly well at a higher level? Leaving you all to it. Enjoy your summer and euros.
June 17, 20242 yr Author 21 minutes ago, bluetrooper said: What is the best position for Enzo to play? who plays alongside him and what parts of their game does the team need to sacrifice to accommodate him? The conundrum for the new manager is how to improve Enzo and get him playing consitantly well at a higher level? Leaving you all to it. Enjoy your summer and euros. We've seen several matches last season where Enzo out of the 3 midfielders had the least touches of the ball, yet covered the most ground. In what world do we want our most technical midfielder running the most whilst receiving the ball the least? It's why I continue to make the comment in telling people to imagine Ancelotti telling Toni Kroos to just run and chase space. It's madness. It's no surprise Poch wanted Mount to stay because Enzo was essentially trying to do what Mount exceled at. Up until matchday 30 I want to say we've consistently seen midfield issues until Poch finally recognized that what he did in preseason may have been the answer all along... The one optimism I have of Maresca is that he seemingly understands how to set up a structured midfield.
June 17, 20242 yr 21 minutes ago, Sconnie Blue said: We've seen several matches last season where Enzo out of the 3 midfielders had the least touches of the ball, yet covered the most ground. In what world do we want our most technical midfielder running the most whilst receiving the ball the least? It's why I continue to make the comment in telling people to imagine Ancelotti telling Toni Kroos to just run and chase space. It's madness. It's no surprise Poch wanted Mount to stay because Enzo was essentially trying to do what Mount exceled at. Up until matchday 30 I want to say we've consistently seen midfield issues until Poch finally recognized that what he did in preseason may have been the answer all along... The one optimism I have of Maresca is that he seemingly understands how to set up a structured midfield. Remember Everton away last season when Gallagher had twice as many touches. Literally playing to the weaknesses of both players.
June 17, 20242 yr 5 hours ago, Bob stark said: Enzo is far better passer than jorgi at any range. Technically Enzo is light years above jorgi. But in term of understanding of the game jorgi is so much better. Defensively, Jorgi is a horrible athlete, Enzo is below average, but once again jorgi know where to be, Enzo on the other hand is 😵💫😵💫😵💫 But isn't that all experience? How much older is jorginho? Genuine questions btw. Was jorg at enzos age as inexperienced? Also how many teams had jorg played in more than Enzo? And the biggie...is Enzo capable or has the potential to learn that "experience"? But how/who from? (And a 2 part-er too,sry)
June 17, 20242 yr 8 hours ago, Sconnie Blue said: Poch has blood on his hands honestly. The mis profiling of footballers and his dinosaur tactics was straight terrorism. Blimey!
June 17, 20242 yr 5 hours ago, bluetrooper said: Last post from me on this thread. It's an interesting take, but I think these midfielders are all doing what midfielders do. https://www.sofascore.com/player/conor-gallagher/904970 https://www.sofascore.com/player/enzo-fernandez/974505 https://www.sofascore.com/player/moises-caicedo/987650 https://www.sofascore.com/player/declan-rice/856714 https://www.sofascore.com/player/alexis-mac-allister/895324 https://www.sofascore.com/player/bruno-guimaraes/866469 What is the best position for Enzo to play? who plays alongside him and what parts of their game does the team need to sacrifice to accommodate him? The conundrum for the new manager is how to improve Enzo and get him playing consitantly well at a higher level? Leaving you all to it. Enjoy your summer and euros. Don't mention the fee! 😜
June 17, 20242 yr If Enzo was from our academy I think the opinion of him would be more " he's not up to it" than anything else.
June 17, 20242 yr 2 hours ago, Simplymo said: But isn't that all experience? How much older is jorginho? Genuine questions btw. Was jorg at enzos age as inexperienced? Also how many teams had jorg played in more than Enzo? And the biggie...is Enzo capable or has the potential to learn that "experience"? But how/who from? (And a 2 part-er too,sry) Of course not, but offense is not the big problem. That part of his game need just refinement, the problem is defensively, I am pretty sure hernia impacted his mobility but he need to improve big time defensively
June 18, 20242 yr I know we are at this very moment in time in the unknown. We are unsure if Enzo is worth all the money we paid. He has played 2 seasons for us and shown glimpses of his talent. That is not enough. I have always felt he is a brilliant player we need to build the side around. He is not a player that is one of the boys, he is the focal point. Just as Bellingham is for England and RM. Not comparing the two that much as I feel Jude is one of a kind. His mentality is also top tier. I feel he has the same winning mentality as Conor for example. He is not in the background, he is on the show. If Maresca feels Enzo is the man for his football I think we should build the team around him. That means Caicedo is always playing to his strengths and cover for Enzo. This is how Italy got the best out of Jorginho. It is not an individual effort. Team needs to give full support to Enzo. I hope he fits into Maresca's ideas and plays a hell of a season.
June 18, 20242 yr 18 hours ago, The Rising Sun said: If Enzo was from our academy I think the opinion of him would be more " he's not up to it" than anything else. Gallagher got a banner before Kante. That alone disproves the myth there's some sort of bias against academy players from the average fan.
June 18, 20242 yr 27 minutes ago, Argo said: Gallagher got a banner before Kante. That alone disproves the myth there's some sort of bias against academy players from the average fan. Not from the match going fans anyway. The mentalist social media cretins on the other hand....
June 18, 20242 yr 3 minutes ago, dkw said: Not from the match going fans anyway. The mentalist social media cretins on the other hand.... Unfortunately there seems to be a slippery slope of many going too far one way and others trying to overcompensate by going too far the other. For example this week alone I've accused of being both a Gallagher hater and fanboy by people on either extreme 🤦🤣
June 18, 20242 yr 33 minutes ago, Argo said: Gallagher got a banner before Kante. That alone disproves the myth there's some sort of bias against academy players from the average fan. Fans who attend our games have always had a very different opinion of our academy players than our internet fans
June 19, 20242 yr This thread has me thinking about Maresca as a player, and whether that experience might be a help or a hindrance to how he uses Enzo Fernandez. Aficionados of Football Manager in the mid-2000s will remember Maresca as that player who popped up with late goals and impossible strikes from range against your team. His success in real life probably didn't quite live up to his in-game hype, but was a key cog for a very successful Sevilla side. Maresca was a a very complete midfielder, technically gifted, eye for a pass, able to sniff out a goal...but this actually counted against him. Apart from Sevilla, through his career he was seen as a jack-of-all-trades that didn't have a definable position. Towards the end of his career he was tasked with playing deeper as a DM/DLP, which he hated, much preferring to be an attacking midfielder. Sevilla's formation allowed him to play as the more attacking midfielder in the pivot, but other clubs didn't afford him such a luxury. So already we can see some similarities with Fernandez, who while objectively performing better in deeper roles personally prefers to play further forward. However, Maresca was a much more box-to-box midfielder, whereas Fernandez hasn't yet demonstrated the speed or energy to do that in the EPL. I don't know if Maresca would appreciate Fernandez's sluggishness, especially when he has much more dynamic options available in Caicedo, Gallagher and Lavia. However I think there would be a sense of kinship with Fernandez's situation as a player with many talents but no defined role as yet. Whether that leads him to appreciate Fernandez or dismiss him is anyone's guess. On Enzo - while his talent is undeniable and we've paid a huge fee, let's not forget that he may well be one in a long line of archetypical Argentine midfield misfits. Ever Banega, Fernando Gago, Lucas Biglia are all examples of midfielders with undeniable talent who just could not adapt to the rigours of top-flight European football.
June 19, 20242 yr I keep thinking of Enzo as a kind of Pirlo. He would never be in the team for his defensive ability so the obvious thing is to use his passing range and linkup play in possession and cover for him out of position. He is certainly going to have to work harder on his weakness, getting bypassed too easily. An inverted full back is one way to improve defensive cover, but also limits the wide attacking options another way is just to have the right 3 midfielders in such a system. It's finding the player to go with Caicedo and Enzo. That player is probably not Palmer coz he is no better defensively than Enzo, worse.
June 19, 20242 yr 1 hour ago, ozboy said: I keep thinking of Enzo as a kind of Pirlo. He would never be in the team for his defensive ability so the obvious thing is to use his passing range and linkup play in possession and cover for him out of position. He is certainly going to have to work harder on his weakness, getting bypassed too easily. An inverted full back is one way to improve defensive cover, but also limits the wide attacking options another way is just to have the right 3 midfielders in such a system. It's finding the player to go with Caicedo and Enzo. That player is probably not Palmer coz he is no better defensively than Enzo, worse. Depends what you define as 'defensive ability'. Pirlo wasn't great in the air nor strong in the tackle but he was excellent at intercepting long passes and harassing midfielders, just didn't have the energy or athleticism to cover a lot of ground. He was also a perfect outlet in defence because of his ability to shield the ball or dribble through midfield. There are plenty of players like Xavi, Xabi Alonso, Kroos, Modric etc who could be relentless in their gritty pressing as well as being magicians on the ball. Defensively at least, Fernandez is more in this second category as he doesn't really read the game well as an interceptor. We've seen for Argentina and early at Chelsea that Fernandez has a bit of grit and energy but that's disappered. I'm hoping it's due to the injury, or even Poch's instructions, because otherwise he'll go down as a waste of talent. Edited June 19, 20242 yr by SydneyChelsea
June 19, 20242 yr 6 hours ago, ozboy said: I keep thinking of Enzo as a kind of Pirlo. He would never be in the team for his defensive ability so the obvious thing is to use his passing range and linkup play in possession and cover for him out of position. He is certainly going to have to work harder on his weakness, getting bypassed too easily. An inverted full back is one way to improve defensive cover, but also limits the wide attacking options another way is just to have the right 3 midfielders in such a system. It's finding the player to go with Caicedo and Enzo. That player is probably not Palmer coz he is no better defensively than Enzo, worse. Pirlo won't do this though. Enzo pick the ball deep, after launching the ball forward he sprint forward. He basically play as box to box midfield which is what poch want him to do and a lot fans here doesn't want him to do Edited June 19, 20242 yr by Bob stark
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