He can try to be box to box but he was at his best when the players around him were box to box. You can't tell me DePaul and MacAllister are worse box to box players so there is that huge body of evidence too, after all Enzo lacks the acceleration and fits better as the distributor.

11 hours ago, SydneyChelsea said:

On Enzo - while his talent is undeniable and we've paid a huge fee, let's not forget that he may well be one in a long line of archetypical Argentine midfield misfits. Ever Banega, Fernando Gago, Lucas Biglia are all examples of midfielders with undeniable talent who just could not adapt to the rigours of top-flight European football.

You are going to piss off an entire country comparing Enzo to Banega, Biglia, and Gago. 

Some Argentines view Enzo higher than even Riquelme. 

Juan Veron another quality Argie midfielder who did little for us or Man Utd

17 hours ago, Bob stark said:

Pirlo won't do this though. Enzo pick the ball deep, after launching the ball forward he sprint forward. 

He basically play as box to box midfield which is what poch want him to do and  a lot fans here doesn't want him to do

 

He does play as box to box. I hope it's enough. The distribution is excellent but you have to do defence and ideally score goals. Ballack and Lampard and Essien could do all three. Ballack wasn't all that fast but covered a lot of territory.

The Copa will be a chance to watch him in a different team.

2 hours ago, ozboy said:

He does play as box to box. I hope it's enough. The distribution is excellent but you have to do defence and ideally score goals. Ballack and Lampard and Essien could do all three. Ballack wasn't all that fast but covered a lot of territory.

The Copa will be a chance to watch him in a different team.

It is fun to debate whether Enzo is better of playing as dlp or box to box. You can have good argument either way. 

But a lot of fans complained about Caicedo being alone, that our offense were too fluid and Enzo need to play like pirlo yet they want Enzo to play like in that video then 😵‍💫😵‍💫😵‍💫

Edited June 20, 20242 yr by Bob stark

it’s harsh to judge Enzo on last season as he started okay (was class against Liverpool) then played with a hernia for a ridiculous amount of time. watching a lot of the games he played I was tearing my hair out that all three of him Gallagher and Caicedo were playing. Especially as it looked like both Enzo and Gallagher were so high up isolating Caicedo. Only when he got injured did Poch tweak the system and play a double pivot where Gallagher pushed on a bit as cucerella joined the midfield did we see Caicedo not isolated and doing well.

 

I think he’s got all the potential but he needs to be played in the right system and his “profile” suits a lot of the players around him. 

He rarely played as a box to box this season for us. He was quite high up the pitch and on the wing, as some already pointed out a couple of pages back. And he rarely got back to defensive positions to help defend the midfield or deep to drive the ball forward as the video shows, Caicedo was the only one covering the midfield.

22 minutes ago, RMH said:

He rarely played as a box to box this season for us. He was quite high up the pitch and on the wing, as some already pointed out a couple of pages back. And he rarely got back to defensive positions to help defend the midfield or deep to drive the ball forward as the video shows, Caicedo was the only one covering the midfield.

Yes box to box does mean a lot of running, and in the video above he is starting deep. The thing is to do it all game long, only player doing more work than box to box is the overlapping fullback. Most modern teams work rate is super important. I expect the fullbacks and midfield will and should see regular rotation.

There were some that see him as a kind of cross between an 8 and 10 and  Poch played him like that for a bit, that is what most of us complain about, fish out of water.

3 hours ago, RMH said:

He rarely played as a box to box this season for us. He was quite high up the pitch and on the wing, as some already pointed out a couple of pages back. And he rarely got back to defensive positions to help defend the midfield or deep to drive the ball forward as the video shows, Caicedo was the only one covering the midfield.

The big problem for both Enzo and Caicedo was the huge gap between them, there was no connection at all and any time Caicedo got the ball he had no one to pass too. Conversely when Enzo got the ball up high it was crowded by our other 4 attacking players, just a complete nonsense of a tactic by poch.

20 minutes ago, dkw said:

The big problem for both Enzo and Caicedo was the huge gap between them, there was no connection at all and any time Caicedo got the ball he had no one to pass too. Conversely when Enzo got the ball up high it was crowded by our other 4 attacking players, just a complete nonsense of a tactic by poch.

Exactly, and I don’t think Enzo was playing as a box to box and therefore Caicedo was completely isolated because Enzo did not track back in time, and we didn’t se him getting the ball as deep as in our own box as that video showed. He was being played more as an advanced midfielder, had he been used as a box to box we might not have seen such a huge gap between Caicedo and Enzo, but I’m not sure he has the athleticism for that role.

7 hours ago, Bob stark said:

It is fun to debate whether Enzo is better of playing as dlp or box to box. You can have good argument either way. 

But a lot of fans complained about Caicedo being alone, that our offense were too fluid and Enzo need to play like pirlo yet they want Enzo to play like in that video then 😵‍💫😵‍💫😵‍💫

Bit of context as I saw the match. 

During that goal, Enzo was in the process of being subbed off and was switched to LW to make room for Nico Gonzalez to be pushed into that position with a LB being subbed on. You can see DePaul and Parades as the CMs. 

That being said, we saw similar passes like against West Ham (Felix goal) where Enzo was still the DLP in the team. The issue last season was that on the moments he did push forward, there was no one supporting Caicedo. Poch conveniently decided to start inverting Cucurella the moment Enzo was out of the team which only leads me to start believing @Argo's theory that Poch was trying his best to freeze Enzo out completely. 

 

I commented in an earlier post, Enzo must have been pissed off to see Cucarella inverting AFTER Enzos break, This is why Caicedo is so much better also.

1 hour ago, Sconnie Blue said:

Bit of context as I saw the match. 

During that goal, Enzo was in the process of being subbed off and was switched to LW to make room for Nico Gonzalez to be pushed into that position with a LB being subbed on. You can see DePaul and Parades as the CMs. 

That being said, we saw similar passes like against West Ham (Felix goal) where Enzo was still the DLP in the team. The issue last season was that on the moments he did push forward, there was no one supporting Caicedo. Poch conveniently decided to start inverting Cucurella the moment Enzo was out of the team which only leads me to start believing @Argo's theory that Poch was trying his best to freeze Enzo out completely. 

 

Enzo played in 3093 minutes this year across the league, FA Cup and League cup.  Can someone explain how this suggests being frozen out of the side? 

8 minutes ago, bluetrooper said:

Enzo played in 3093 minutes this year across the league, FA Cup and League cup.  Can someone explain how this suggests being frozen out of the side? 

What other midfield options did Poch have? Lavia, Nkunku and Lesly were in the hospital bed 98% of the season. 

Enzo isn't a player that is good at chasing space which was what Poch wanted more than anything in his midfield based on his tactics. This is supported by the fact in the few occasions that Nkunku was fit, he was played at LF or ST. Not midfield. Poch then went on his rant by saying he is "forced" to play certain players because of price tag, and the moment Enzo was out injured he then decided to start inverting Cucurella in suspicious attempt by indirectly revealing "Hey you see, Enzo was the problem". There is also the rumor he told Enzo he could go to the Olympics where Poch would've probably froze him out in favor of more runners in midfield, ala Caicedo, Lavia, and Gallagher. 

It's not a hill I am willing to die on, its just incredibly suspicious. 

 

 

13 minutes ago, Sconnie Blue said:

What other midfield options did Poch have? Lavia, Nkunku and Lesly were in the hospital bed 98% of the season. 

Enzo isn't a player that is good at chasing space which was what Poch wanted more than anything in his midfield based on his tactics. This is supported by the fact in the few occasions that Nkunku was fit, he was played at LF or ST. Not midfield. Poch then went on his rant by saying he is "forced" to play certain players because of price tag, and the moment Enzo was out injured he then decided to start inverting Cucurella in suspicious attempt by indirectly revealing "Hey you see, Enzo was the problem". There is also the rumor he told Enzo he could go to the Olympics where Poch would've probably froze him out in favor of more runners in midfield, ala Caicedo, Lavia, and Gallagher. 

It's not a hill I am willing to die on, its just incredibly suspicious. 

 

 

reads like a good conspiracy theory backed by rumour. Minutes on the pitch suggest otherwise. 

Enzo goes to the Olympics and lights up the tournament which he could well do -  i think every man, woman and their dogs on here would be shouting for his inclusion wouldn't they? 

Guess we'll see this season under a new manager, clean slate and all that...

On 19/06/2024 at 14:35, Sconnie Blue said:

You are going to piss off an entire country comparing Enzo to Banega, Biglia, and Gago. 

Some Argentines view Enzo higher than even Riquelme. 

Riquelme was my favourite player ever. If he had decent pace he would have been the best in the world at that time.

I was lucky to watch him for Argentina and Boca a few times including the derby vs River. What a player!

Enzo isn’t that player for Argentina……yet. 

 

Didn't play in Argentinas opening group game, a 2-0 win over Canada.

22 minutes ago, axman2526 said:

Didn't play in Argentinas opening group game, a 2-0 win over Canada.

Tactical reasons according to Argentine sources. 

23 hours ago, Sconnie Blue said:

Tactical reasons according to Argentine sources. 

Not a bad thing either. Live in Atlanta and the pitch was awful (stadium is amazing as a visitor, pitch aside). He doesn’t need to be on that. I hope they improve it for Chelsea’s preseason friendly July 31, and the World Cup. 

3 hours ago, PhilH930 said:

Not a bad thing either. Live in Atlanta and the pitch was awful (stadium is amazing as a visitor, pitch aside). He doesn’t need to be on that. I hope they improve it for Chelsea’s preseason friendly July 31, and the World Cup. 

Yeah that pitch was ass. 

Enzo is a modern day Jan Molby

Enzo playing as an #8. MacAllister holding. 
 

Roles reversed. 

Enzo’s been poor. 
 

Paez non existent. 
 

Caicedo struggling. 
 

 

Not a good showing from the Chelsea lads. 

5 hours ago, Sconnie Blue said:

Enzo’s been poor. 
 

Paez non existent. 
 

Caicedo struggling. 
 

 

Not a good showing from the Chelsea lads. 

Bit harsh on the Ecuadoreans. The Argies are the current World Cup holders, and No 1 in the world for a reason. Bar Caicedo, Paez, Hincapie at Leverkusen, Sarmiento of Brighton who is on loan at Ipswich, & a way past it Ener Valencia, there is no quality. 
Caicedo was playing as a playmaker, and Paez is now the youngest South American to play at a Copa America Quarters. 

5 hours ago, ducavis said:

Bit harsh on the Ecuadoreans. The Argies are the current World Cup holders, and No 1 in the world for a reason. Bar Caicedo, Paez, Hincapie at Leverkusen, Sarmiento of Brighton who is on loan at Ipswich, & a way past it Ener Valencia, there is no quality. 
Caicedo was playing as a playmaker, and Paez is now the youngest South American to play at a Copa America Quarters. 

I just didn’t notice him at all from what was a very impressive Ecuadorian performance as a whole. They should be kicking themselves for not winning as Argentina were very poor. Only 17 so he’s allowed to have poor matches. 

Enzo in particular was so poor. Not sure what the deal is with he and MacAllister switching roles, but based on his Copa America performances I’m going to be a little worried if he’s going to be one of the #8’s in Maresca’s system. He just hasn’t gotten any form.