3 hours ago, axman2526 said:

Yeah you have to assume Lesley is not in Enzos plans. Is the only way you could justify it to Gusto and Badiashile.

He's coming back from a bad Injury and needs game time as part of his rehab, not everything has to be "the worst".

12 minutes ago, dkw said:

He's coming back from a bad Injury and needs game time as part of his rehab, not everything has to be "the worst".

Aye is true. Though I think Gusto and Badiashile could have benefited from it a lot too. 

Unlike Enzo having Copa America, and having his place in the regular Argie set up, Badi and Malo are not regular for the senior France team. Could have given them some much needed experience and development.

 

1 hour ago, El regreso said:

 

The opposition, mighty Guatamala ranked 108 on the planet.... when he does that consistently against lower and midtable teams in the premiership... he'll be quite a player. The guy needs to dramatically improve next season under Maresca. 

15 minutes ago, bluetrooper said:

The opposition, mighty Guatamala ranked 108 on the planet.... when he does that consistently against lower and midtable teams in the premiership... he'll be quite a player. The guy needs to dramatically improve next season under Maresca. 

Provided he doesn't get pushed wide or as an attacking midfielder like our last manager did with him he'll be fine.

1 hour ago, timetowaste said:

Provided he doesn't get pushed wide or as an attacking midfielder like our last manager did with him he'll be fine.

How many games did he play pushed wide or as an attacking midfielder? curious to your viewpoint. 

He played centrally for most of the season, he is a CM by all listings, either further forward or alongside in a more cdm role with Caicedo. Cant really remember him playing wide right or left on many occasions. 

 I know he's a favourite among fans but think he's been sub-optimal bar a few games against lesser sides. 

 

 

51 minutes ago, bluetrooper said:

How many games did he play pushed wide or as an attacking midfielder? curious to your viewpoint. 

Pretty much all of them, if he wasn't being utilized as an auxiliary winger he was being used as a box crasher Lamps style. Utterly criminal management.

 

52 minutes ago, bluetrooper said:

How many games did he play pushed wide or as an attacking midfielder? curious to your viewpoint. 

He played centrally for most of the season, he is a CM by all listings, either further forward or alongside in a more cdm role with Caicedo. Cant really remember him playing wide right or left on many occasions. 

 I know he's a favourite among fans but think he's been sub-optimal bar a few games against lesser sides. 

 

 

We saw it quite a lot, which was one of the reasons why Caicedo was so isolated in a lot of games. We'd get possession, start the build up process and Enzo would be in a forward or wide position. The Potter/Lampard season was shocking but Enzo was a rare bright spark because he was being allowed to do what he does best which is sit a bit deeper and dictate the play much like Kroos was doing last night.

That's not to say I think everything was Poch's fault, but how he was being asked to play was the main reason (in my opinion) why he didn't was because of how he was asked to play.

Add the hernia injections...

 

Part of me is convinced we haven't seen Enzo actually play yet. Should have had that operation straight away the moment he realised he wasn't playing where he should.

 

Also add the saying about hindsight...haha

 

*seriously though...why didn't the medics step in and say no instead of giving him an injection before every game! For a final or something then fine, but to play for 5-6months with a hernia and pain meds is wrong imho.

Edited June 15, 20242 yr by Simplymo

First game of the last season vs Liverpool absolutely bossed it.

14 hours ago, El regreso said:

 

Great vid. Enzo looks excellent and as the footage show it’s Enzo starting deep and that first long pass. That’s Enzo position starting deep either centrally or wide left. Made great ground to get up for the return. Great vid. 

Hoping he takes that Winks role vs one of the #8s. 

 

This thread is proof the blinkers are well and truly on for Enzo. 

He has flashes of good play but sorry the fact people are making excuses for a 100 million pound player who hasnt nailed down a role in the side or three managers havent been able to integrate him to the side properly yet says a lot. 

This is exactly what im talking about. the fact folk have to say how he bossed a game 12 months ago as a reference... 

15 hours ago, El regreso said:

First game of the last season vs Liverpool absolutely bossed it.

Gallagher has been head and shoulders above this guy all season and we look better when he plays in Enzo's position and Enzo is out the side, he was played alongside Caciedo and doesn't have the discipline to hold a position. he's not creative enough in the final third to be considered an auxiliary winger, whatever that means and was fine for the first half of the season and wasnt injured and we looked a mess... the whole side were but if he doesnt improve this year, start doing the close control and turning players to find space that he should be doing, because he misplaces passes a lot, gives the ball away far too cheaply and in dangerous areas, simply because hes not up to the speed of the premiership. Some latin players dont adjust and we've all seen it here before. 

Will leave you all to circle jerk about him, I'd be shipping him out ASAP if Maresca cant get him settled and playing to a consistent standard. There are better and more effective players out there who would do a better job for us. 

 

 

20 hours ago, timetowaste said:

We saw it quite a lot, which was one of the reasons why Caicedo was so isolated in a lot of games. We'd get possession, start the build up process and Enzo would be in a forward or wide position. The Potter/Lampard season was shocking but Enzo was a rare bright spark because he was being allowed to do what he does best which is sit a bit deeper and dictate the play much like Kroos was doing last night.

That's not to say I think everything was Poch's fault, but how he was being asked to play was the main reason (in my opinion) why he didn't was because of how he was asked to play.

Bang on, the way Caicedo was isolated receiving the ball from defence was so moronic, I genuinely have no idea what poch was trying to achieve with it, it just made it piss easy for the opposition to nullify our attacks from deep. Compared to games where Caicedo had a midfielder near him and he flourished

 Just complete idiocy from an experienced manager, and something loads of fans were begging him to fix.

4 minutes ago, bluetrooper said:

.Will leave you all to circle jerk about him

 

You really are a tedious little prick. There is no circle jerk, there a discussion on whether we believe he should be in the team, was missused by the previous manager etc.

If you can't handle people disagreeing with you on a forum then stop posting your nonsense and let the adults chat.

1 hour ago, dkw said:

Bang on, the way Caicedo was isolated receiving the ball from defence was so moronic, I genuinely have no idea what poch was trying to achieve with it, it just made it piss easy for the opposition to nullify our attacks from deep. Compared to games where Caicedo had a midfielder near him and he flourished

 Just complete idiocy from an experienced manager, and something loads of fans were begging him to fix.

I think that’s spot on.

The way Poch set the side up even when there were injuries was for an experienced and supposedly top HC was quite simply naive.

Caceido was improving as the season progressed but a major reason he looked so poor was Gallagher and yes Enzo seemed to lack discipline or perhaps the instruction to provide cover .
 

Gallagher got away with far more because his style of play draws applause not because of any subtle tactical reason but because of his energy. As I have said before it’s a bit like the player that Arsenal had, Matthew Gundouzi, ran around kicked a few people but was missing so much but got away with it because he expended that extra energy.

 

 

3 hours ago, bluetrooper said:

This thread is proof the blinkers are well and truly on for Enzo. 

He has flashes of good play but sorry the fact people are making excuses for a 100 million pound player who hasnt nailed down a role in the side or three managers havent been able to integrate him to the side properly yet says a lot. 

This is exactly what im talking about. the fact folk have to say how he bossed a game 12 months ago as a reference... 

His fee is not his fault. It's completely irrelevant as to whether he should be in the team or not. 

People bringing up fees annoys me no end. 

I'm a Enzo fan and yeah he cost a lot of money but like others say I think define his role properly and the others around him and he'll be fine.

4 minutes ago, bisright1 said:

His fee is not his fault. It's completely irrelevant as to whether he should be in the team or not. 

I agree, you can get value at £100m or buy a waste of space for £20m.

Price vs expectation is something for lazy journalists to keep bringing up IMO.

I prefer to judge footballers with my eyes rather than their price tags.

Imagine Ancelotti telling Kroos to run and chance space. 

4 hours ago, bluetrooper said:

This thread is proof the blinkers are well and truly on for Enzo. 

He has flashes of good play but sorry the fact people are making excuses for a 100 million pound player who hasnt nailed down a role in the side or three managers havent been able to integrate him to the side properly yet says a lot. 

What on earth are you on about? He did nail down a role in the side then our last genius manager decided to come in and effectively play him on the wing.

You can say 100m as much as you like but Pochettino made even the greatest player to ever walk this earth look average.

4 hours ago, bluetrooper said:

Gallagher has been head and shoulders above this guy all season and we look better when he plays in Enzo's position and Enzo is out the side, he was played alongside Caciedo and doesn't have the discipline to hold a position.

Funny you look at results/performances and mention Gallagher. If we're going to be that based I can say he came into a team that finished 3rd and we instantly dropped 9 places, I mean I don't think that was his fault in the slightest but going by that logic....

2 hours ago, 2211 said:

I agree, you can get value at £100m or buy a waste of space for £20m.

Price vs expectation is something for lazy journalists to keep bringing up IMO.

I prefer to judge footballers with my eyes rather than their price tags.

The only value that actually matters is his value to the team, and whether he deserves to play on his form, the fee once its been paid is totally irrelevant as you say.

3 hours ago, bisright1 said:

His fee is not his fault. It's completely irrelevant as to whether he should be in the team or not. 

People bringing up fees annoys me no end. 

This...the fee is not the players fault at all, its the stupid suits. His wages can be used but for most of us I think it's what he does on the pitch. He has the talent if used properly but unfortunately either poch didn't know how to use him or has no need for him in his system so used him in the wrong position.

Tbh...i've said this before. Poch is a man manager, He's brilliant at nurturing kids or getting a team unified. Like Southgate for example with England.

But he isn't a tactical coach. A serial winner, a fighter. He's the hippy and dreamer that youngsters need. Job done. 

But I have 0 confidence in poch knowing what he's doing in rgds to game play. I don't rate him at all when it comes to tactics. I can't see him sitting at a table arguing tactics with Pep using salt shakers, instead poch is sitting on the side helping the kids colour in the kids menu.

 

Edited June 16, 20242 yr by Simplymo

For me Enzo would be best used in a Jorginho esc sort of role, similar to what Caicedo was deployed as after Enzo had his surgery 

 

If we remain using 1 full back to invert that would see whoever that full back is join Enzo as the two deepest midfielders.

 

While Jorgi is better at short range passing Enzo also has superb vision, as well as long and short range passing. Making his more or less a quarter back in this role picking up the best options.

 

This also free caicedo to play further forward, where he has the engine to get up and down the pitch all day.

 

Basically you play Enzo deep, protect his limited athletic skillset with the fullback and players with engines dropping back to help, and allow him to read the game and pick the pass. All with the game in front of him.

 

Play him as a 10 or wide attacker and most of the game is behind him,and he becomes an average player at best.

2 hours ago, axman2526 said:

For me Enzo would be best used in a Jorginho esc sort of role, 

Just to be clear, are you recommending benching him?