On 01/01/2023 at 20:05, Mod said:

I actually think that would be a big step back for England. I'm not saying Southgate is amazing, but just think he has more in his bag than Potter does and probably will have. I'd like to see Frank take over after Southgate, that'd suit him and we can all go back to supporting him again.

As for Tuchel, I gave him stick in his latter part and probably thought he should've gone, but in hindsight and on the subject of taking a step back.... we definitely went there!

If I knew back then the way it'd go, I would've backed him more when the games were poor. As we've been shown, it wasn't all on him!

Back him or not he wasn't sacked because of our turgid football and awful results. It was political

2 minutes ago, The Rising Sun said:

Back him or not he wasn't sacked because of our turgid football and awful results. It was political

Yep, he wasn't a 'yes' man. I don't think there are any top coaches that are!

2 minutes ago, Mod said:

Yep, he wasn't a 'yes' man. I don't think there are any top coaches that are!

He better start saying "NO" if Todd is going out to buy a bunch of useless players

Graham Potter is just one problem with what is going wrong for us. The greater problem has been our recruitment, which was failing badly before the takeover and failing even worse since.

My feeling is the leadership at the top is rotten. Hopefully Todd buts out and the people he hired fixes these issues. I am not hopeful.

12 hours ago, Mod said:

Yep, he wasn't a 'yes' man. I don't think there are any top coaches that are!

Some coaches will work with the board rather than against them. Pep for example. 

14 hours ago, g3.7 said:

To me it's obvious that tuchel should never have been sacked, and that we've replaced him with someone inferior (which, tbf most are). 

But that's done now, and Potter can't be blamed for it. The teams he's produced in the past do show he's a good coach and they suggest he could produce a very good, attractive team here. 

At the moment the form is poor, the football is poor, and his line ups and subs appear questionable and contradictory at times. But I think we should avoid getting too granular with these types of criticisms, he obviously sees himself as someone who builds a team and style of play over a longer period, and I think his past does bear that out. We'll be successful under him only if that happens, but I don't think we can hope for success through incredible tactical ideas for one-off games, or audacious game changing substitions. 

But honestly I'm pretty worried for him. I'm not convinced that boehly really knows what he's doing, and nor can we be confident he's likely to stick with a manager in such a poor run of form.

But it isn't losing the owner, or losing the fans even that poses his biggest threat. At the moment he has the look and sound of a person who doesn't realise where he is, or the expectations of the players he has. If your players have worked with people like Mourinho, guardiola or tuchel, you can't sound like a PE teacher in a poor catchment area 12 years into a tory government.

You can't say 'the lads gave everything' after huffing and puffing to a barely deserved draw against a side assembled for a fraction of the cost of the team you coached. 

This is a great post. Well done g3.7.

Especially the last two paragraphs nail it for me. I have no doubt the owners want to be extremely patient with him but it would not surprise me if most of the players see him as a bit of a joke already. Losing the dressing room is probably what does him in, in the end. And he may even have lost it already.

JT is stil around at Cobham. I can't at all imagine he's happy about our leaders mentality either. I know one thing and that is that if JT was still in the dressing room and his manager attempted to excuse losses in the way Potter have done then he'd make sure that manager was a goner in no time.

Edited January 5, 20233 yr by OriginalS

I mean personally I don't believe touchel should have been sacked. on the other hand we should keep potter. rebuild our team around him, if its not worked then re evaluate the situation at the end of the season. the focus now should be finishing the season in the top 6. lets face it top 4 isnt an option at the moment. 

Our ancient team don't want to embrace change or use any energy.

they are comfortable , they'll be playing in slippers and smoking pipes if this carries on

This whole thread is Roman-empire stuff. If I had my way I would delete it...

Look at us as a club:

-New owner with long term vision in mind

-Tuchel sacked because of his inability to co-operate on all club levels. 

-Potter signed because of his ability to work with all kinds of people and his track record of improving young players

-Our squad is full of young exciting talent and we are buying the best crop of that talent as we speak.

-Potters contract is 5 years long. Sacking him now or before his full 3rd season (barring a catastrophe) would be dumb as hell.

And to remind you all: Gallagher, Mount, Havertz, James, Chalobah, Chukwuemeka, W Fofana, D Fofana, Hall, Hutchinson, Broja, Slolina, Pulisic, Casadei....after a week or so Andrey Santos and Bashiadile...maybe even Enzo Fernandez...

We need to make the core of our team from these lads with the help of Azpilicueta and Silva.

Let's move to a new era and let Roman's Empire live in our memories.

What worries me and what Potters advocates refuse to address is his obvious failings in attack.

Last season Potters Brighton scored 42 goals in 38 games (1.1ag), only the bottom three and Wolves scored less.

Since Potter left Brighton they have scored 26 goals in 14 games (1.86ag).

All that time at Brighton, all those players he brought in, and that's the best he could manage last season, 1.1 goals per game.

 

6 minutes ago, coco said:

What worries me and what Potters advocates refuse to address is his obvious failings in attack.

Last season Potters Brighton scored 42 goals in 38 games (1.1ag), only the bottom three and Wolves scored less.

Since Potter left Brighton they have scored 26 goals in 14 games (1.86ag).

All that time at Brighton, all those players he brought in, and that's the best he could manage last season, 1.1 goals per game.

 

Has the new manager changed things at Brighton though ?. Seems the same style, which I would love us to play !

 But I'll tell you what, they keep unearthing young talent don't they ?

 

 

What concerns me is there seems to be no movement in signing someone to play as right back surely not just relying on injury prone James and relying on ageing Azpi?

2 minutes ago, strider6004 said:

What concerns me is there seems to be no movement in signing someone to play as right back surely not just relying on injury prone James and relying on ageing Azpi?

Then, much like Tuchel when it came to CM, if we continue to get exposed in that area the manager will be responsible for it. 

1 hour ago, evissy said:

And to remind you all: Gallagher, Mount, Havertz, James, Chalobah, Chukwuemeka, W Fofana, D Fofana, Hall, Hutchinson, Broja, Slolina, Pulisic, Casadei....after a week or so Andrey Santos and Bashiadile...maybe even Enzo Fernandez...

Of all the names you mentioned, he only uses Havertz, Mount and James on a regular basis. 

The rest is always substituted in minute 65, 75 or 85.

I would be more forgiving if he comes out in press conferences with actual strategical ideas on how he believes this squad can operate.

4 hours ago, bisright1 said:

Some coaches will work with the board rather than against them. Pep for example. 

Yea not so much not working with the board, a yes man is more of a weak person towards the board and does everything they want without questioning. Tommy clearly was not and I wouldn’t put Pep in that category either.

Normally they would end up moving on due to falling out with them; Jose, Conte, Tommy, etc.

1 hour ago, Mod said:

Yea not so much not working with the board, a yes man is more of a weak person towards the board and does everything they want without questioning. Tommy clearly was not and I wouldn’t put Pep in that category either.

Normally they would end up moving on due to falling out with them; Jose, Conte, Tommy, etc.

I don't think Potter is necessarily that person either. 

Tommy is in the bracket of Jose, Conte who will actively work against the board in his own interests

Klopp and Pep both work with the board. Rarely criticise in public. Potter is that category. 

I think we need that type of person. 

1 minute ago, bisright1 said:

I think we need that type of person. 

I think that largely depends on the type of board too though. Those that want the best from the club I get, owners that don’t really have a clue, not so!

Sometimes I wish Roman would’ve included a free instruction manual in with that 4bn price tag!

6 minutes ago, bisright1 said:

Rarely criticise in public. Potter is that category. 

So would I be tbh if they paid me £12 million a year as an unproven manager.

Tuchel worked well with Granovskaia & Cech. Perhaps he told Todd to piss off when he wanted to force Ronaldo on him for the umpteenth time in a row but if so he did us another huge favour.

1 hour ago, Deino said:

Of all the names you mentioned, he only uses Havertz, Mount and James on a regular basis. 

The rest is always substituted in minute 65, 75 or 85.

I would be more forgiving if he comes out in press conferences with actual strategical ideas on how he believes this squad can operate.

He also has 15 senior international players to utilize. 

On 04/01/2023 at 06:44, Droyman said:

But why give Poch money and time when you're not prepared to give Tuchel/Potter money and time?  Poch is NOT a better manager than either Tuchel or Potter.  Changing the manager every 3 months will NOT improve the situation, it will make it worse.  What will improve the situation is giving Potter money to buy his own players and time to turn things around.  The problem has clearly been player recruitment, whoever has been making the decisions to buy Lukaku, Werner, Ziyech etc etc are to blame, a COLOSSAL wastage of a COLOSSAL amount of money.

Agreed. Whoever is manager will sooner or later have to drop a lot of these underperforming players, and they need to be offloaded before any manager. If the right new players are signed, then that will help. If that is not possible in the short term then I would rather see some of the young talent given a chance.

3 hours ago, The Rising Sun said:

Has the new manager changed things at Brighton though ?. Seems the same style, which I would love us to play !

 But I'll tell you what, they keep unearthing young talent don't they ?

 

 

I have watched Brighton a bit over the last few years. They were of course under less pressure from expectations, but they were patient and are now reaping the rewards. They steadily improved over the time Potter was in charge and have looked really decent this season. The new manager has just kept the momentum going. I suspect the real test for him will be when they hit their first bad patch under his control.

I'll never advocate for a manager getting the sack sharpish after appointment. Well except unqualified ones like Lampard, and even he got my benefit of a full season to see what his ideology was like. The real question is should we have gone for a manager like Potter. 

I'm all for giving opportunities to up and coming managers but truth is even though the press narrative would have you believe it, GP is no spring chicken in this management thing. 

Sure he did well with Brighton and maybe deserved a chance at the big time but at the expense of what and does the ambition of the two parties (club and manager) align well with the reputation and achievement of both. 

Edited January 5, 20233 yr by abister1

57 minutes ago, OriginalS said:

So would I be tbh if they paid me £12 million a year as an unproven manager.

Tuchel worked well with Granovskaia & Cech. Perhaps he told Todd to piss off when he wanted to force Ronaldo on him for the umpteenth time in a row but if so he did us another huge favour.

Define "worked well", because our transfer history since 2017 has been shambolic and signing Lukaku in 2021 ultimately took us backwards when we should of been progressing after that Champions League final win. 

Arteta and Edu are like brothers. 

Pep and Txiki are never off the phone with one another. 

 

It's not that Potter is a "yes man", its whether the club view Potter as a man that can work with the technical/sporting director on the long term vision. 

 

33 minutes ago, Sconnie Blue said:

Define "worked well", because our transfer history since 2017 has been shambolic and signing Lukaku in 2021 ultimately took us backwards when we should of been progressing after that Champions League final win. 

Arteta and Edu are like brothers. 

Pep and Txiki are never off the phone with one another. 

 

It's not that Potter is a "yes man", its whether the club view Potter as a man that can work with the technical/sporting director on the long term vision. 

 

I’d be interested in that answer too. The last 2 summer windows have been very poor and TT had a big hand in those. It doesn’t even look like we will have replaced Lukaku’s 15 goals.