1 minute ago, jack_super_class said:

Might be because we have had loads of injuries, hard fixture list and a red card last night and shocking GK error that cost us. These same players have let other managers down, but again its Potter fault.

All i'm hearing is a lot of excuses.

Lampard often had to line up with 4 out of 10 outfielders straight out of the Championship, no Hazard and no transfers, and had injuries and everything else to deal with - Still got the job done.
Tuchel had a whole list of major problems he had to deal with - Still got the job done.

Lampard and Tuchel could both get it done in very challenging circumstances. Why can't we expect Potter to be at least as good as Lampard? Your excuses doesn't cut it.

2 minutes ago, Zeta said:

Ask yoruselves this. Despite all the injuries, if we had Guardiola, or prime Mourinho, or Alex Ferguson, or another top top manager - would we be playing better? or would we still be seeing the same sideways, backwards passing, no creativity, constant mistakes, no motiviation, etc..,.?

If the answer is no, we'd be doing better, then we have to get him out and get someone better in.

Pep finished 4th in his first season, won on thing and was getting beaten heavily by Everton and Leceister and Monaco and he had a a bettor team now than we have.

Luckily for him they gave him time, bought players to sit his system and lucky he works for a club that has great recruitment, unlike ours.

2 minutes ago, jack_super_class said:

Might be because we have had loads of injuries, hard fixture list and a red card last night and shocking GK error that cost us. These same players have let other managers down, but again its Potter fault isn't it? 🤣

The problem with Potter for me is that he has never managed a top club and was employed by an owner with no previous experience in football. Were stuck with Potter for now. I see him getting sacked towards the end of next season.

This is about how Lampard had to line up quite often btw when he achieved 4th with us.

Didn't whine, didn't make excuses but knew what the expectations were at this club. The way things are going right now it's likely Potter could get us relegated with a team like that.

There was a whole lot more talent in the XI that were on the pitch yesterday than that there.

 

55 minutes ago, jack_super_class said:

We weren't getting top 4 under TT this season either!! Years of bad recruitment, a mismatch of different manager signings, average squad is the reason we are in this mess. But lets blame it all on Potter 🤣 . All those things i mentioned are catching up with us while other teams have improved.

Incorrect, you have 0 proof to back your claims. History is not a precursor for the future however we can draw potential inferences from the past. TT had us in the top 4 in every season he coached here that is fact. Every coach since the 17/18 season had us in the top 4 that is fact. There is no reason to assume we wouldn't be in the top 4 after 6 games because we didn't have the best start. 

A reminder we were still in the top 6 at the point of termination. TT had every chance of turning it around, whether he would have is a different matter. To say indefinitely we wouldn't have made top 4 is a baseless claim, it shows a lack of footballing understanding just to justify your own opinion. 

Edit: Also if we won the ucl this season under TT we would also have made the ucl next season. How likely that is again is irrelevant because we will never know, but since he did it once it is plausible to deduce it could happen again.

Edited January 13, 20233 yr by LongtimerLurker

22 minutes ago, OriginalS said:

This is about how Lampard had to line up quite often btw when he achieved 4th with us.

Didn't whine, didn't make excuses but knew what the expectations were at this club. The way things are going right now it's likely Potter could get us relegated with a team like that.

There was a whole lot more talent in the XI that were on the pitch yesterday than that there.

 

It's all on Boehly mate, incompetence starts at the top and bleeds through the rest of the squad. Imagine going from "We are Chelsea we must win every trophy available and we must be in the champions league" to "don't worry about top 4 or top 6 just try your best we're in transition" we're always in transition ffs doesn't mean we should let standards slide. 

The moment Boehly changed the coaching dynamic the old Chelsea died. It's fine to want a long-term project but you don't gamble it all on your first appointment when you have zero footballing people in place and very little knowledge about football ans managing a football club. It's not the same as baseball because they don't have relegation like we do. Everything that's happened so far is on Boehly he chose this path and now he is dying on the sword on Graham Potter. 

I wonder what Roman, Marina, Bruce, Cech and Tuchel amongst others are thinking right now. For me the issue at Chelsea football club is a mentality problem, not to do with Graham or the players but Boehly himself. He set Potter up to fail with his scatter gun approach to transfers. Hiring him at that point in the season made 0 sense, either do it in the summer or wait until the next summer. Heck even January would have made more sense.

Potter is more put of his depth than Lamps, but ofc Boehly can't see this. I've never been so disappointed with someone associated with the club, because the worst part is he's trying it would have just been better if he wasn't trying so hard and exercised some patience. Which ironically he is now with the coach he appointed, sadly this is one of the issues that he cannot see.

Romano and a few other journalists saying he’s in no immediate danger of being sacked so that’s it’s probably settled barring a genuine slide in a relegation battle.

For me to have even a slight bit of hope that’s he the man for the job I’d be looking for a bare minimum of 8th place and signs of a style of play being implemented by the end of the season. 

1 hour ago, OriginalS said:

All i'm hearing is a lot of excuses.

Lampard often had to line up with 4 out of 10 outfielders straight out of the Championship, no Hazard and no transfers, and had injuries and everything else to deal with - Still got the job done.
Tuchel had a whole list of major problems he had to deal with - Still got the job done.

Lampard and Tuchel could both get it done in very challenging circumstances. Why can't we expect Potter to be at least as good as Lampard? Your excuses doesn't cut it.

Other teams have improved since Lampard left ,we havent. All you think and care about is top, im looking at the bigger picture. We have kept luckily getting top 4 for the past 4 seasons and our luck has ended. Sometimes you have to suffer and go backwards to move forwards.

53 minutes ago, coco said:

The problem with Potter for me is that he has never managed a top club and was employed by an owner with no previous experience in football. Were stuck with Potter for now. I see him getting sacked towards the end of next season.

Never managed a top club, well everyone has to start from somewhere.

I will judge him when everyone is back this season is gone so no point worrying over that now. But end of feb we should have everyone back fit that’s when I expect no excuses.

For now I don’t see the point of sacking him because he can’t expect experience players to have stinkers constantly like the do. Trev was horrendous, KK always nervous when he has to defend, Kepa regressed, Mount should spend then month on the bench with Havertz, Conor is not up to our standards yet he looks like a headless chicken running around on the pitch.

Our there best fit players are a 38 year old defender,  and two loan players one who’s been at the for a couple of minutes.

Let that sink in!!!

25 minutes ago, LongtimerLurker said:

Incorrect, you have 0 proof to back your claims. History is not a precursor for the future however we can draw potential inferences from the past. TT had us in the top 4 in every season he coached here that is fact. Every coach since the 17/18 season had us in the top 4 that is fact. There is no reason to assume we wouldn't be in the top 4 after 6 games because we didn't have the best start. 

A reminder we were still in the top 6 at the point of termination. TT had every chance of turning it around, whether he would have is a different matter. To say indefinitely we wouldn't have made top 4 is a baseless claim, it shows a lack of footballing understanding just to justify your own opinion. 

Edit: Also if we won the ucl this season under TT we would also have made the ucl next season. How likely that is again is irrelevant because we will never know, but since he did it once it is plausible to deduce it could happen again.

0 proof, Yeah ok how about looking at the 2022 league table. How about watching us play? How about his shocking recruitment?. Did TT make one good signing?.

How many times, we were getting worse under TT, not better. Even games we were winning under him, they were all fortunate wins.

The problems Potter is having are the same issues TT was having so why blame Potter?.

2 minutes ago, jack_super_class said:

Sometimes you have to suffer and go backwards to move forwards.

And sometimes you just suffer and go backwards. And then further backwards and then ultimately you are done for.

Personally I wish Liverpool would have given Roy Hodgson more than a few of months so he could finish his work there and get them relegated but unfortunately their owners weren't as patient as some on here are.

And Roy Hodgson had a better CV than Potter! 7th in the Premier League, Europa League final with Fulham and loads of other achievements. Wasn't the right guy for an actual top club though.

 

 

3 minutes ago, OriginalS said:

And sometimes you just suffer and go backwards. And then further backwards and then ultimately you are done for.

Personally I wish Liverpool would have given Roy Hodgson more than a few of months so he could finish his work there and get them relegated but unfortunately their owners weren't as patient as some on here are.

And Roy Hodgson had a better CV than Potter! 7th in the Premier League, Europa League final with Fulham and loads of other achievements. Wasn't the right guy for an actual top club though.

 

 

You used 1 manager to suit your narrative, a horrible Liverpool team by the way. I can give you mangers with excellent CV failing at top clubs also.

Everyone is hot on Enrique who finished 9th with Celta Vigo. Hasn't done great with Spain either.

 

Edited January 13, 20233 yr by jack_super_class

57 minutes ago, OriginalS said:

This is about how Lampard had to line up quite often btw when he achieved 4th with us.

Didn't whine, didn't make excuses but knew what the expectations were at this club. The way things are going right now it's likely Potter could get us relegated with a team like that.

There was a whole lot more talent in the XI that were on the pitch yesterday than that there.

 

That's a much better team than what we put out 

1 minute ago, jack_super_class said:

You used 1 manager to suit your narrative, a horrible Liverpool team by the way. I can give you mangers with excellent CV failing at top clubs also.

 

I can give you about a million examples of "project" managers that just ended up taking their clubs backwards.

Steven Gerrard (did really well at Rangers) project at Aston Villa one of the latest ones.
Nuno Santos at Tottenham.
Solskajer at United.
Moyes at United.
Villas Boas here.

And one can go on and on and on. The other top teams in the EPL are moving too fast these days for us to potentially waste two seasons on a project that may or may not work out. Especially when all current signs points towards not working out at all.

Whenever and whoever takes over from Potter they will have big shoes to fill.

 

33 minutes ago, jack_super_class said:

Other teams have improved since Lampard left ,we havent. All you think and care about is top, im looking at the bigger picture. We have kept luckily getting top 4 for the past 4 seasons and our luck has ended. Sometimes you have to suffer and go backwards to move forwards.

Winning a few cup competitions has disguised our problems since Conte's 2nd season, but there's nowhere to hide now.

You could even argue the once formidable outfit we became accustomed to from the start of Abramovich's reign died in the 2015/2016 season, and we had one last hurrah in Conte's first year by winning the title when City and Liverpool were still adjusting under Guardiola and Klopp.

• 2017/2018 (5th) = 70 points (30 points behind 1st) -- CONTE 🇮🇹
• 2018/2019 (3rd) = 72 points (26 points behind 1st) -- SARRI 🇮🇹
• 2019/2020 (4th) = 66 points (33 points behind 1st) -- LAMPARD 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁥󠁮󠁧󠁿
• 2020/2021 (4th) = 67 points (19 points behind 1st) -- LAMPARD 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁥󠁮󠁧󠁿 // TUCHEL 🇩🇪
• 2021/2022 (3rd) = 74 points (19 points behind 1st) -- TUCHEL 🇩🇪
• 2022/2023 (10th) = 25 points (19 points behind 1st)** -- TUCHEL 🇩🇪 // POTTER 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁥󠁮󠁧󠁿

We haven't been close to competing for the title since 2017. If I'm generous, we were good in the first half of 2021/2022 but fell away after that due to a variety of factors.

Only Azpilicueta, Kante and Loftus-Cheek remain from the 16/17 title winning squad. The squad we've largely assembled and witnessed today is five years of average recruitment. The last decent summer of recruitment was summer 2014 when we added Fabregas, Costa and Courtois (return from his loan at Atletico Madrid). Since then, it's been poor for the most part.

Potter might not be the answer, and so far his results have been concerning but the current crisis is a few years in the making.

Edited January 13, 20233 yr by Jezz

2 minutes ago, OriginalS said:

I can give you about a million examples of "project" managers that just ended up taking their clubs backwards.

Steven Gerrard (did really well at Rangers) project at Aston Villa one of the latest ones.
Nuno Santos at Tottenham.
Solskajer at United.
Moyes at United.
Villas Boas here.

And one can go on and on and on. The other top teams in the EPL are moving too fast these days for us to potentially waste two seasons on a project that may or may not work out. Especially when all current signs points towards not working out at all.

Potter has been here like 16 games..

We had a good manager in TT struggling with these players too and going backwards. Sacking Potter solves nothing.

It's the players!, wake up.

2 minutes ago, Jezz said:

Winning a few cup competitions has disguised our problems since Conte's 2nd season, but there's nowhere to hide now.

You could even argue the once formidable outfit we became accustomed to from the start of Abramovich's reign died in the 2015/2016 season, and we had one last hurrah in Conte's first year by winning the title when City and Liverpool were still adjusting under Guardiola and Klopp.

• 2017/2018 (5th) = 70 points (30 points behind 1st) -- CONTE 🇮🇹
• 2018/2019 (3rd) = 72 points (26 points behind 1st) -- SARRI 🇮🇹
• 2019/2020 (4th) = 66 points (33 points behind 1st) -- LAMPARD 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁥󠁮󠁧󠁿
• 2020/2021 (4th) = 67 points (19 points behind 1st) -- LAMPARD 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁥󠁮󠁧󠁿 // TUCHEL 🇩🇪
• 2021/2022 (3rd) = 74 points (19 points behind 1st) -- TUCHEL 🇩🇪
• 2022/2023 (10th) = 25 points (19 points behind 1st)** -- TUCHEL 🇩🇪 // POTTER 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁥󠁮󠁧󠁿

We haven't been close to competing for the title since 2017. If I'm generous, we were good in the first half of 2021/2022 but fell away after that due to a variety of factors.

Only Azpilicueta, Kante and Loftus-Cheek remain from the 16/17 title winning squad. The squad we've largely assembled and witnessed today is five years of average recruitment. The last decent summer of recruitment was summer 2014 when we added Fabregas, Costa and Courtois (return from his loan at Atletico Madrid). Since then, it's been poor for the most part.

Potter might not be the answer, and so far his results have be concerning but the current crisis is a few years in the making.

Someone who gets it 

Looking at it in that format, if we should’ve stuck with anyone, it should’ve been Lampard!

2 hours ago, jack_super_class said:

Look at the bigger picture instead of short term every time.

The bigger picture right now is Chelsea becoming relegation battlers. 

Nobody is playing for him. Can't even use Alex Ferguson taking Utd to 17th in his first year as a comparison, Ferguson won the CWC with Aberdeen beating then-Real Madrid before taking on the job. Potter's highlight before CFC are Europa leaguers Ostersunds and midtablers Brighton. 

He's another Hodgson in the making

2 minutes ago, Deino said:

The bigger picture right now is Chelsea becoming relegation battlers. 

Nobody is playing for him. Can't even use Alex Ferguson taking Utd to 17th in his first year as a comparison, Ferguson won the CWC with Aberdeen beating then-Real Madrid before taking on the job. Potter's highlight before CFC are Europa leaguers Ostersunds and midtablers Brighton. 

He's another Hodgson in the making

Players aren't playing for him then get rid of them, they will do it to the next manager too.

Most of these players aren't good enough anyway so who cares if they leave.

 

We play palace, then liverpool the weekend after. 

Then we have 13 day break since we are out of the cup, before a home game against fulham.

By the fulham game we should have James, Chilwell, Fofana, and RLC back from injury, and hopefully we a couple more new signings, and maybe Zakaria back.

I think we got to give him this little period to turn it around at the very least, considering how much money it will cost to sack him.

 

56 minutes ago, jack_super_class said:

You used 1 manager to suit your narrative, a horrible Liverpool team by the way. 

 

Tbf you used Arteta to fit your 'give him time' narrative.

If the likes of Zakaria and Felix can come in on loan and immediately be our most impressive players then the problem isn't with the manager. We've got too many players who are stale and don't want to play football to standard we should be upkeeping.

Get rid of Pulisic, Ziyech, Havertz, Mount, Azpi, Koulibali and then we can start to build again. Until these players aren't guaranteed starters then nothing will change.

Potter is not exempt from criticism, He's picking these under performing players and needs to go back to basics. I just worry he's so stressed he feels compelled to play certain players and isn't making what should be natural decisions.

The fact we're mid table doesn't really factor for me as we aren't going to qualify for Europe anyway. The only thing I don't like is this is likely Thiago Silva's last season and he deserves much much better than this.

Edited January 13, 20233 yr by Luca Vialli