45 minutes ago, Remodez said:

A better manager wouldn't have suddenly made Jackson, Sterling, Mudyrk, etc better goal scorers. We may have been better defensively but I don't see any other manager, apart from Pep, increasing our chances created with is already very high under Poch. 

Probably not but, in those specific games given as examples we lost the three points, so even when we scored two goals, we were still not able to control the tempo of the games and we let those relegation and mid table teams get a point from being behind, and they were arguably better towards the end of the matches than we were. And that falls down on the coaching not just on the inexperienced players (who suddenly became good in seeing the game out in the last few games).

2 hours ago, Nibs said:

Although I disagree with you dkw, I do admire you sticking to your guns as I know you haven't been a fan of Poch from day one and your reasons are valid.

But who would you realistically want to lead us into next season?

 

Honestly, no idea whos next. I dont really follow other managers in other leagues, and I`m always wary of the "new shiney" managers that get thrown around because they've done well for a team in Portugal, Germany etc.

I just dont see hardly any progress under Poch, the last month or so results have are obviously better, but we still arent playing any more cohesively in my opinion. Defensively were still all over the place, midfield is often easily bypassed, though Caicedo hitting form has helped a lot in that department, and set pieces are still so shambolic I have no idea what they set up is even now, theres just no logic to it at all. His substitions are still so off, and we still also have that really weird lull after his half time talks.

 

 

1 hour ago, Remodez said:

Despite your disagreement with his tactics, or lack thereof in your opinion, we would still have seen out many games if we could actually finish so it's hard for me to be too critical. If this is his worse then surely Poch at his best would see us comfortably top 4. 

We could also easily have lost several more if the opposition hadnt missed chances, it works both ways.

Theres a lot of evidence to me for why we should get rid, but for me theres 4 matches that stand out.

Boro away in the cup. They had 11 or 12 players missing, then lost 2 early in the game, both defenders. Yet they still outplayed us, comfortably contained us for the most part and opened us up with ease at times. Our attitude stank that game, looked like we thought we just had to turn up. out coached by a novice.

Sheff Utd away - just utterly shambolic in every way. Right after we scored to take the lead we just fell apart, we looked like we had no idea how to hold the lead. 

Carabao cup final - Utter nonsense and cowardice.

Wolves at home - Wolves had a plan, we didnt. Poch had no idea how to change things to help, out coached by a novice.

Edited May 20, 20242 yr by dkw

1 hour ago, Remodez said:

A better manager wouldn't have suddenly made Jackson, Sterling, Mudyrk, etc better goal scorers. 

Wouldnt they, why not? We see this all the time, in all leagues. A new manager can change the way a team uses a player, where he runs, how he gets the ball. Play to their strengths. Look at Palace, players last year that couldnt score like Mateta look a different player.

51 minutes ago, POCH OUT said:

He deserves another season, BUT he needs to start playing the best players for the correct position.

Do you want a name change?

11 minutes ago, dkw said:

Honestly, no idea whos next. I dont really follow other managers in other leagues, and I`m always wary of the "new shiney" managers that get thrown around because they've done well for a team in Portugal, Germany etc.

This is a big reason why I’ve U-turned! Now we are starting to work this board out a bit more, it’s very clear they want yes men and be involved more with ‘head coach’ business. I’d be sitting in the Tommy back camp but it’s obvious he won’t return (watch him join United now).

Poch isn’t an elite manager, but I think with what this board will serve us up, he’s the best we could ask for! And that includes De Zerbi!

In. 

I have quite a few reservations about poch- I don't love the style of football his sides play, he's got an addiction to playing players out of position, and he's hardly a genius tactician. 

But that being said I think many of us, and i cant think of anyone more guilty of this than I, tend to examine and scrutinise every single decisions our managers take in forming our judgements of them. This lends itself better to managers like conte, tuchel, and Jose than it does to those like ancelotti, ranieri, and poch.

The former are hyper-specific planners of press conferences, teams, tactics, and patterns. We can examine everything they do because every individual thing they do is considered and has has a specific intention.

The latter group are philosophically different in their approach, and really only care about the overall / holistic improvement of the team. 

Met on those terms, pochettino has done well enough to deserve a second season. The spirit and cohesion in the squad, and the sense that there is a positive future and clear path to improvement is pretty apparent. This is far from where we were last season. I also think after all the churn in the men's football side, there is a huge risk in changing the manager yet again.

Pochettino's reputation for working well with young players remains well founded, and though it isn't clear if he could be this team's Jose, it could be argued that he is this team's ranieri. Unless the ownership decide they want to depart from their approach in the transfer market, I'd say pochettino is still well suited to this team. 

Edited May 20, 20242 yr by g3.7

Double post. 

(If it wasn't too late for Jackson to get his numbers up for the season, it isn't too late for me) 

Edited May 20, 20242 yr by g3.7

1 hour ago, RMH said:

Probably not but, in those specific games given as examples we lost the three points, so even when we scored two goals, we were still not able to control the tempo of the games and we let those relegation and mid table teams get a point from being behind, and they were arguably better towards the end of the matches than we were. And that falls down on the coaching not just on the inexperienced players (who suddenly became good in seeing the game out in the last few games).

The only game that was 100% Poch's fault was Sheff United. The others you mentioned were down to the players missing simple chances. 

1 minute ago, Remodez said:

The only game that was 100% Poch's fault was Sheff United. The others you mentioned were down to the players missing simple chances. 

Manager's job isn't just to have the team scoring goals. It's to stop conceding them as well.

We've been leaky all season, breaking our own goals conceded record in the process. 

1 hour ago, dkw said:

We could also easily have lost several more if the opposition hadnt missed chances, it works both ways.

Theres a lot of evidence to me for why we should get rid, but for me theres 4 matches that stand out.

Boro away in the cup. They had 11 or 12 players missing, then lost 2 early in the game, both defenders. Yet they still outplayed us, comfortably contained us for the most part and opened us up with ease at times. Our attitude stank that game, looked like we thought we just had to turn up. out coached by a novice.

Sheff Utd away - just utterly shambolic in every way. Right after we scored to take the lead we just fell apart, we looked like we had no idea how to hold the lead. 

Carabao cup final - Utter nonsense and cowardice.

Wolves at home - Wolves had a plan, we didnt. Poch had no idea how to change things to help, out coached by a novice.

This would be true normally but doesn't apply to us this season. In the vast, vast majority of our games this season we have had more and better chances than the other team. They score on their 2nd or 3rd attempt, it takes up 10 shots to score one. Been the story all season. 

I agree on Boro and Sheff Utd. Completely disagree on the final, as I've said before if we play that game 9 times out of 10 we win that easily 1 or 2 nil within the 90 mins. I do agree his set up in the extra half was cowardly, I'm not sure how much of that was a fitness issue mind. 

Wolves, I'm really sure how you can blame Poch for defenders making individual errors. I agree we weren't great tactically but that's a game we should still have won. They did not outplay us by any means. Their first goal was Caicedo losing the ball cheaply and then gusto gives away a stupid pen for their 3rd or 4th goal. We also had Sterling missing an easy goal and I think it was Connor as well missing a rebound. 

Edited May 20, 20242 yr by Remodez

5 minutes ago, Sconnie Blue said:

Manager's job isn't just to have the team scoring goals. It's to stop conceding them as well.

We've been leaky all season, breaking our own goals conceded record in the process. 

 I don't disagree with that. I'm simply pointing out that even with our leaky defence we would be outscoring most teams if we could finish. 

1 minute ago, Remodez said:

 I don't disagree with that. I'm simply pointing out that even with our leaky defence we would be outscoring most teams if we could finish. 

Shoulda, woulda, coulda.

We haven't been tight defensively all season and Sheffield United capitalized. It also wasn't as if we this was some game where we played them off the park either. 

Like I said, with everyone fit Poch has zero margin for error. We better seem the team closing games out like we saw yesterday. 

1 minute ago, Sconnie Blue said:

Shoulda, woulda, coulda.

We haven't been tight defensively all season and Sheffield United capitalized. It also wasn't as if we this was some game where we played them off the park either. 

Like I said, with everyone fit Poch has zero margin for error. We better seem the team closing games out like we saw yesterday. 

Well if people are going to talk about our weak defence and how we should or could have conceded more I think it's fair to bring up the other side of that argument. 

I've also acknowledged Sheff United was 100% down to Poch so I don't disagree there.  

Just now, Remodez said:

Well if people are going to talk about our weak defence and how we should or could have conceded more I think it's fair to bring up the other side of that argument. 

I've also acknowledged Sheff United was 100% down to Poch so I don't disagree there.  

My bad. Need my coffee. 

The lack of managers who woild work within this process makes this all "the devil you know"

Kieran McKenna is being talked about as a Poch replacement, possibly because the day before he was linked with Brighton.

My guess? (And we know my predictions are bad) is the board are deciding between keeping Poch, or replacing him with RDZ or ETH (TT to United I think may be a done deal).

3 minutes ago, axman2526 said:

The lack of managers who woild work within this process makes this all "the devil you know"

Kieran McKenna is being talked about as a Poch replacement, possibly because the day before he was linked with Brighton.

My guess? (And we know my predictions are bad) is the board are deciding between keeping Poch, or replacing him with RDZ or ETH (TT to United I think may be a done deal).

The usual Twatterati are linking McKenna with every coaching job south of Greenland. He's not stupid. He will stay with Ipswich for at least another season.

They may be thinking of replacing Poch, an indication of their complete and utter football ignorance. Their preference might be for a company man, happy to sit on the totem pole below the co-sporting directors with little or no say in player movements. There are few top quality managers who would accept that. Especially De Zerbi who isn't a top quality manager anyway. Ultimately, if Poch doesn't get enough of what he wants, he could walk away. Good on him.

5 hours ago, g3.7 said:

In. 

I have quite a few reservations about poch- I don't love the style of football his sides play, he's got an addiction to playing players out of position, and he's hardly a genius tactician. 

But that being said I think many of us, and i cant think of anyone more guilty of this than I, tend to examine and scrutinise every single decisions our managers take in forming our judgements of them. This lends itself better to managers like conte, tuchel, and Jose than it does to those like ancelotti, ranieri, and poch.

The former are hyper-specific planners of press conferences, teams, tactics, and patterns. We can examine everything they do because every individual thing they do is considered and has has a specific intention.

The latter group are philosophically different in their approach, and really only care about the overall / holistic improvement of the team. 

Met on those terms, pochettino has done well enough to deserve a second season. The spirit and cohesion in the squad, and the sense that there is a positive future and clear path to improvement is pretty apparent. This is far from where we were last season. I also think after all the churn in the men's football side, there is a huge risk in changing the manager yet again.

Pochettino's reputation for working well with young players remains well founded, and though it isn't clear if he could be this team's Jose, it could be argued that he is this team's ranieri. Unless the ownership decide they want to depart from their approach in the transfer market, I'd say pochettino is still well suited to this team. 

I'm not sure how fair it is to say that Poch is tactically unaware (not that you said that, perhaps, but I'll put words in your mouth). One could argue that Pep isn't a master tactician but has a very unique style of play that is drilled into his players. Spurs fans I know could clearly articulate how Poch set them up and the style of play he implemented. Is that not considered a tactic?

For what it's worth, I think he's fulfilled his remit this season under exceptionally difficult circumstances. In the last 2-3 weeks, we've seen the difference that depth on the bench can make. Personally, I believe we are seeing progress and I don't know who would do a better job right now. I'm fascinated to see what he can do with a second season.

Arteta finished 8th in his first season with 56 points (he took over in December). He finished 8th in his second season with 61 points - he had far less to deal with than Poch.

Pep finished 3rd with 78 points with an all-conquering City side, and Klopp finished 4th with 76 points but had more than half a season by that point, finishing 8th with 60 points.

I'm not sure any of them would have done much better this season given the circumstances.

He has to be given another season, The only question marks I have right now are defensively.

We've been quite progressive over the last three months, We should have won the cup final and we could have beaten City in the FA cup. It's all positive for me.

Getting rid of him now makes no sense whatsoever.

I’m willing to give him another year , was on the fence/leaning out for a lot of the time but 6th was my minimum requirement for a league finish and he’s got that whilst improving the team a lot from the start of the season/last season.

Somewhat unfortunate to not end up with 1 or 2 cups as well which would have marked a very successful season. 
 

Expectations should be higher next season top 4 at a minimum and maybe even a cup.

2 hours ago, theGreenBaron said:

I'm not sure how fair it is to say that Poch is tactically unaware (not that you said that, perhaps, but I'll put words in your mouth). One could argue that Pep isn't a master tactician but has a very unique style of play that is drilled into his players. Spurs fans I know could clearly articulate how Poch set them up and the style of play he implemented. Is that not considered a tactic?

What you're describing is more of an overall strategy / framework / style IMO. 

My point is I don't think pochettino is especially good at identifying how to attack or defend against specific opponents, or how to adapt when the situation changes during a match. His strengths lie elsewhere. 

4 hours ago, axman2526 said:

The lack of managers who woild work within this process makes this all "the devil you know"

Kieran McKenna is being talked about as a Poch replacement, possibly because the day before he was linked with Brighton.

My guess? (And we know my predictions are bad) is the board are deciding between keeping Poch, or replacing him with RDZ or ETH (TT to United I think may be a done deal).

Your predictions are bad? That has to be a massive understatement. What have you been smoking FFS! If our board appointed either RDZ or ETH, they would be lynched. It ain't gonna happen (either of them).

Media getting briefed that if we replace Poch it will be for a young manager not an experienced one. Quite an odd thing to say when he's still in the job which has me thinking they are easing the situation and news that he'll be gone.

Just guessing...

It'll be ironic if they sack Poch now he's finally gotten us playing well, given that they kept him on after months of awful football

Edited May 20, 20242 yr by Drogba1

7 minutes ago, Drogba1 said:

It'll be ironic if they sack Poch now he's finally gotten us playing well, given that they kept him on after months of awful football

 

 

We were just turning a corner with performances when Potter was axed.

Edited May 20, 20242 yr by DukesOfHazard

I'm not gonna sit on the fence and while it's a difficult decision I've still gone for Poch out. There are talented manager out there, but I am concerned with McKenna's name getting brought up, it would be a huge step backwards.