Sometimes he is good,sometimes he is bad...

Problem is, how long do you keep hoping he will make that break through at the cost of a striker, who has more pace, who scored double the goals last season, who is 6 years younger, who i feel one on one with a defender is the better out of the two. (sturridge)

It's clear robbie doesnt fancy sturridge, ill go in to that further in another post but the fact is, if you knew nouthing about this league and you had to pick between sturridge and torres based on last season alone no one in there right mind would pick torres...

Not really as cclear cut a decision as you are making out in my opinion.

Stats from last season:

Torres:

Appearances: 49

Goals: 11

Assists: 12

Sturridge:

Appearances: 41

Goals: 13

Assists: 7

Not all that much in that really

Edited September 20, 201213 yr by mclovin83

Sometimes he is good,sometimes he is bad...

Sometimes he's unbelievable

Tekkers

Problem is, how long do you keep hoping he will make that break through at the cost of a striker, who has more pace, who scored double the goals last season, who is 6 years younger, who i feel one on one with a defender is the better out of the two. (sturridge)

It's clear robbie doesnt fancy sturridge, ill go in to that further in another post but the fact is, if you knew nouthing about this league and you had to pick between sturridge and torres based on last season alone no one in there right mind would pick torres...

PS regarding the midfield, add ramires to that, where was he playing exactly? there is no point in all 3 of them being on the pitch, 2 from 3 and then matta, hazzard, oscar or still marin to come

It doesn't have to be a case of one or the other Barak. No team can rely solely on one striker for an entire campaign. There is room, and games enough, for both Studge and Torres. Hell, there may, (RDM willing), even be games where they get to play together up front!!! In fact, IMO, just having two strikers is not enough for an entire season. I would be looking to add another back-up to the squad!

The main point of my last post is that the Torres I have seen from the start of this season is looking more interested, hungry and threatening to that which I have seen for much of his previous time in a Blue shirt. There were many more good points than bad points for me last night and against Newcastle. We played a very good team in Juventus and yet some of our attacking inter-play, passing and creativity was quick and exciting and Torres, despite not having any clear cut chances in the game, was a major part of that attacking fluidity and invention.

I accept it is very early days in this campaign and there is no garauntee of his continued improvement, or that he will ever hit the heights he reached at Liverpoo, but we have been patient for the best part of two years and with the new players we have brought in to play a different style of football, this is the brightest he has looked IMO. I just think it's worth persevering a little longer with him to see if it works out.

Not really as cclear cut a decision as you are making out in my opinion.

Stats from last season:

Torres:

Appearances: 49

Goals: 11

Assists: 12

Sturridge:

Appearances: 41

Goals: 13

Assists: 7

Not all that much in that really

A couple of things that in my oppinion you are omiting..

1) Torres played up front almost exclusively, Sturridge played on the right wing

2) Also not sure where you get those statistics, in terms of premier league i have torres on 6 and sturridge on 11? are we including a hatrick against leiciester? really?

I stand by my point, if you had only ever watched the last 18 months of football you would probably give the role to Danny.

At any rate he is at least worth a chance. The truth is I have a very firm opinion on Robbie, and its not the most flatering, but its going to take me so long to justify it I just havent been bothered, surfice to say i dont think he was the best man for the Job but as it traspires the only man for the job

A couple of things that in my oppinion you are omiting..

1) Torres played up front almost exclusively, Sturridge played on the right wing

2) Also not sure where you get those statistics, in terms of premier league i have torres on 6 and sturridge on 11? are we including a hatrick against leiciester? really?

I stand by my point, if you had only ever watched the last 18 months of football you would probably give the role to Danny.

At any rate he is at least worth a chance. The truth is I have a very firm opinion on Robbie, and its not the most flatering, but its going to take me so long to justify it I just havent been bothered, surfice to say i dont think he was the best man for the Job but as it traspires the only man for the job

1. Granted. Although Torres has more assists which you would not necessarily expect from a striker so that adds a bit of balance in terms of what they delivered from there respective roles perhaps.

2. Wikipedia and of course I am counting all competitions, that is the only fair way otherwise you can pick and choose competitions to suit your argument. Goals are goals and all count in my opinion. Can't say I remember a hatrick against Leicester though- did that happen?

To be honest though I don't necessarily disagree with you. I just think there wasn't that much in it based on the whole of last season and on that basis they both deserve opportunities.

Sturridge should be getting more chances up front he has looked sharp whenever he has come on so far this season. I genuinely hope he starts a few games upfront in the coming weeks and not just Wolves at home.

Our problems are not up front... Torres has hit the back of the net and made assists this season, in fact if not for Hazzard he would probably have had a bit more recognition in some games...

Everyone has off days and on those days we need a backup. Didier more than often was totally frustrating in matches more so than Torres. He needs the season if things don't change we cut our losses then...

Not really as cclear cut a decision as you are making out in my opinion.

Stats from last season:

Torres:

Appearances: 49

Goals: 11

Assists: 12

Sturridge:

Appearances: 41

Goals: 13

Assists: 7

Not all that much in that really

Really? Do you honestly believe that Sturridge wouldn't have at least added 5 more goals to that tally with 8 more games!

Well, gonna throw my insane theory out there but this is what I expect......

How many million a striker costs is how many goals a season you should get and expect.

Say...

RVP - 24 million? 24 Goals? likely.

Tevez - 25 million? 25 goals? Possible.

Drogba - 24 million? 24 goals? easily :p

Aguero - 38 million? 38 goals? pushing it, but not impossible.

Torres - 50 million? Meh, you get the point so I won't even go there.

We got fisted.

I will always support Torres but i can say he is not the man, Sturridge is better(IMO).

http://cdn.memegenerator.net/instances/400x/20269229.jpg

But seriously, 2 below par games after a great start to the season by him we get this sh*t again? It's bad enough that the media and opposition fans get on his back at any given opportunity let alone when our own fans do it.

Edited September 20, 201213 yr by timetowaste

Really? Do you honestly believe that Sturridge wouldn't have at least added 5 more goals to that tally with 8 more games!

How did you arrive at the conclusion that Sturridge would (almost certainly) score 5 goals in the extra 8 games from the stats I provided?

I'm not saying that he wouldn't, I can't predict the future but not sure how you can be so sure he would either, especially as his actual goals per game ratio doesn't represent a goal return of that nature.

It doesn't have to be a case of one or the other Barak. No team can rely solely on one striker for an entire campaign. There is room, and games enough, for both Studge and Torres. Hell, there may, (RDM willing), even be games where they get to play together up front!!! In fact, IMO, just having two strikers is not enough for an entire season. I would be looking to add another back-up to the squad!

The main point of my last post is that the Torres I have seen from the start of this season is looking more interested, hungry and threatening to that which I have seen for much of his previous time in a Blue shirt. There were many more good points than bad points for me last night and against Newcastle. We played a very good team in Juventus and yet some of our attacking inter-play, passing and creativity was quick and exciting and Torres, despite not having any clear cut chances in the game, was a major part of that attacking fluidity and invention.

I accept it is very early days in this campaign and there is no garauntee of his continued improvement, or that he will ever hit the heights he reached at Liverpoo, but we have been patient for the best part of two years and with the new players we have brought in to play a different style of football, this is the brightest he has looked IMO. I just think it's worth persevering a little longer with him to see if it works out.

There is no doubting his effort and heart and for sure most of his good work last night was his general work for the team.

But like Sheva and Joe before him he looks like he is playing from memory. Why this should have happened to him I have no idea but I find it hard to imagine he will ever rediscover the freedom of spirit you need to succeed at the highest level.

On another point I feel his price-tag is irrelevant. It's not his fault how much we paid for him. It is the fact that he is playing every game for us is the context in which we are having the discussion.

A lot of the stick he gets on here is harsh, but he does not "work his balls off every game".

He will not put that much effort in for a lot of the game then will chase a lost cause, then everyone raves about his 'exceptional work rate'.

Also getting annoyed with the constant dropping to the floor and waving his arms, but in his defence, some of the service is woeful.

If someone can explain why David Luiz thinks hoofing it up to him at head height is a good idea, especially against Juve, a team with 3 massive centre backs....?

It's not entirely his fault, but it's up to him to sort it out this season. He STILL hasn't won us a game or scored a CRUCIAL goal.

A lot of the stick he gets on here is harsh, but he does not "work his balls off every game".

He will not put that much effort in for a lot of the game then will chase a lost cause, then everyone raves about his 'exceptional work rate'.

Also getting annoyed with the constant dropping to the floor and waving his arms, but in his defence, some of the service is woeful.

If someone can explain why David Luiz thinks hoofing it up to him at head height is a good idea, especially against Juve, a team with 3 massive centre backs....?

It's not entirely his fault, but it's up to him to sort it out this season. He STILL hasn't won us a game or scored a CRUCIAL goal.

I'd suggest he had a massive part to play in winning the newcastle game and although his goal against reading was offside it counted so technically he scored the crucial goal that put us 3-2 up. Against newcastle he won the penalty and scored a banger. Short memory syndrome?

There is no doubting his effort and heart and for sure most of his good work last night was his general work for the team.

But like Sheva and Joe before him he looks like he is playing from memory. Why this should have happened to him I have no idea but I find it hard to imagine he will ever rediscover the freedom of spirit you need to succeed at the highest level.

On another point I feel his price-tag is irrelevant. It's not his fault how much we paid for him. It is the fact that he is playing every game for us is the context in which we are having the discussion.

What? You mad? His price is irrelevant? You telling me if we paid just 50 quid for him and he was sh*te it would bother you? or course not, its fifty quid you would expect him to be rubbish! your post is nonsense. His price has everything to do with it.

A lot of the stick he gets on here is harsh, but he does not "work his balls off every game".

He will not put that much effort in for a lot of the game then will chase a lost cause, then everyone raves about his 'exceptional work rate'.

Also getting annoyed with the constant dropping to the floor and waving his arms, but in his defence, some of the service is woeful.

If someone can explain why David Luiz thinks hoofing it up to him at head height is a good idea, especially against Juve, a team with 3 massive centre backs....?

It's not entirely his fault, but it's up to him to sort it out this season. He STILL hasn't won us a game or scored a CRUCIAL goal.

Both goals this season were match winners. got the winner against Barca aswell. Admittedly it needs to happen more often in the big games.

There is no doubting his effort and heart and for sure most of his good work last night was his general work for the team.

But like Sheva and Joe before him he looks like he is playing from memory. Why this should have happened to him I have no idea but I find it hard to imagine he will ever rediscover the freedom of spirit you need to succeed at the highest level.

On another point I feel his price-tag is irrelevant. It's not his fault how much we paid for him. It is the fact that he is playing every game for us is the context in which we are having the discussion.

The price issue is irrelevant to a point Liam, as fans of the club we want all our players to succeed regardless of cost, but not entirely irrelevant I believe. If I go into Argos and pay £200 for a 42" widescreen TV from Taiwan and it goes bang after 6 months I probably wouldn't moan too much. However, if I go into an electrical retailers in Tottenham Court Road and pay £2,000 for a 42" Bang & Olfusen widescreen TV and that goes bang after 6 months I will be sorely peeved. It's the same with most things in life, you expect to get what you pay for. If we had brought him as a relative unknown from Wigan for £6 million there is no doubt in my mind that the expectations of him and the scrutinization of his performances, both by the fans and the media, would be completely different.

Bit harsh. But the stropping after being subbed was nearly the end for me.

Drogba fought off successive challenges from big money strikers because when he played he came up big. He is so mentally weak it isn't funny.

He's never going to recreate the form he did at Liverpool, he was in the prime of his life. He was the best striker in the world and he had a team that played to his strengths. Football has evolved since then, teams park the bus. As teams sit back and soak up the pressure, there is little chance of through balls and counter attacking football he thrives on. We are forced to play wide as there is no room through the middle, it doesn't help that he lost a lot of pace and that burst of acceleration. There was a ball played over the top last night by Mata, I could of ran faster than him.

The effort is there and will support him because he's a blue but he needs his ability to perform at the highest level.

I think if he does not get a decent return this season, then he may well be off the next. He's had a decent start but he hasen't been overly impressive, I hope he succeeds, like everyone. It's just a case of how much longer can we hope?

I believe this season will be his best at the club on a personal note but will it be anywhere close to what he done at Liverpool? No chance, he was unstoppable then.

I think our style at the moment suits a fox in the box type of striker. If Torres doesn't live up to the billing then it makes sense to offer him to Athletico and Money for Falcao.

Though I haven't given up on him, let's review his overall performance at the end of the season.If he flops, there is no point of return. He's good as done.

Edited September 20, 201213 yr by Sheva

When the results are not going our way, you know who to blame : Torres and Mikel. Please start a thread for lampard while you are at it.

If we had brought him as a relative unknown from Wigan for £6 million there is no doubt in my mind that the expectations of him and the scrutinization of his performances, both by the fans and the media, would be completely different.

If we had bought him from Wigan for £6m he'd have got a lot less games and nobody, but nobody, would consider him a top-notch striker. We wouldn't be blaming service, we wouldn't be blaming formations, we wouldn't be blaming the manager, we'd be saying, "He's just not very good. Oh well he only cost six million. No harm done.".

He happens to be called Torres. He happens to have blonde locks, and he happened to cost fifty million large ..

Sadly this blinkers people. They think they're seeing something they're not.

To my mind Robbie is too keen to keep the senior players onside. He is not picking the side on merit. Drop Mikel and Lampard, drop Torres. Let's see how we fare without them. If we do well, the problem Robbie has, is he has to keep them out the side, and that may make him unpopular with them, and that's a risk he's not prepared to take in my book. I suspect Mikel and Lampard will play the vast majority of games, regardless of performances, and I think the same of Torres.

It's funy how all the Torres apologists are saying that "2 bad games and everyone's going nuts again". 2 bad games? How about the best part of 2 poor, underwhelming seasons? How many times have we seen Torres go on a little flurry of goalscoring for 2/3 games only to disappoint us once again? I can't wait to hear what the next excuse is.

don't say anything....don't say anything...don't say anything...don't say anything......oh f**k it.........he'll be out the door in January

If we had bought him from Wigan for £6m he'd have got a lot less games and nobody, but nobody, would consider him a top-notch striker. We wouldn't be blaming service, we wouldn't be blaming formations, we wouldn't be blaming the manager, we'd be saying, "He's just not very good. Oh well he only cost six million. No harm done.".

He happens to be called Torres. He happens to have blonde locks, and he happened to cost fifty million large ..

Sadly this blinkers people. They think they're seeing something they're not.

To my mind Robbie is too keen to keep the senior players onside. He is not picking the side on merit. Drop Mikel and Lampard, drop Torres. Let's see how we fare without them. If we do well, the problem Robbie has, is he has to keep them out the side, and that may make him unpopular with them, and that's a risk he's not prepared to take in my book. I suspect Mikel and Lampard will play the vast majority of games, regardless of performances, and I think the same of Torres.

I agree on one thing, people are blinded by Torres because he's that type of player you really want to succeed. I admired him at Liverpool when he was on fire, you couldn't not like him in my opinion. I think people are blinded by him because they badly want him to succeed, when it's becoming more of false hope.

Though I disagree on the part in bold, he's not just Torres. Just like Sheva was not just Shevchenko, these guys were the best at what they did at a point in time of their careers. Torres has 100 caps for spain at a time where spanish football has dominated internationally, he is proven to be a lethal goal scorer in the premier league. He was bought because the club knew he shown the ability to be a world beater and he is a extremely marketable player. You can't compare him to a 6 million player at Wigan.

People have faith and false hope because of what he's done in the past which is another thing that blinds them. Though chances are a 6 million pound player from Wigan had a good season and we bought him.

Edited September 20, 201213 yr by Sheva