Just like Sheva was not just Shevchenko, these guys were the best at what they did at a point in time of their careers. Torres has 100 caps for spain at a time where spanish football has dominated internationally, he is proven to be a lethal goal scorer in the premier league.

This of course is true, and he is cut a lot more slack because of it, is what I'm saying. If he was exactly the same player, but had been signed for £6m from Wigan, I doubt people would be making so many excuses for him. They'd just be saying he's not good enough. Does the odd good thing, has the odd good game, but is not good enough.

These threads anger me I don't know why I come into them. I said at the start that he'll get 25+ goals for us this season and a couple of bad games has not changed my mind.

Both goals this season were match winners. got the winner against Barca aswell. Admittedly it needs to happen more often in the big games.

Actually he got the equaliser against Barca and we were already going through at that stage, not that im taking anything away from it, one of my favourite chelsea goals of all time.

Saying that I am still very pro Nando, and I think we have seen enough from him this season and we have the players around him now to get a very decent goal tally out of him. Despite his petulance against QPR he gives his absolute all for the club and seems desperate to try and prove himself.If the worse comes the worse January will come by and he wont have fired and no doubt Roman will dig deep into his pockets but until that stage I really hope we keep Nando as the main man.

That is not to say I dont want studge to get gametime, very talented young english player but this is Torres' time and I really hope he takes it

These threads anger me I don't know why I come into them. I said at the start that he'll get 25+ goals for us this season and a couple of bad games has not changed my mind.

I agree they piss me off to but if we didn't come onto them it would basically just be a torres hate page. Some people don't have the patience to be able to at least wait until 15 games are played to form there judgement. When torres scores the posts about him go quiet which says it all really!

Why do pro Torres posters insist on "let's wait before passing a judgment"? My view of Fernando and his shortcomings is based on his whole CFC career to date, not the start of the current season.

Like Davey Baby said, try and imagine his name wasn't Torres and he didn't arrive with huge price tag and expectations. Would you still blame everything and everyone but him for his struggles?

Do you think Demba Ba or Papis Cisse have better supporting cast at Newcastle than Torres has here? Do you really think someone like Van Persie, for example, wouldn't be quite prolific in our team if we swapped Torres for him?

If you're in top shape and confident, you'll do relatively well anywhere.

Mods, can we incorporate this into "Everything you want to say about Torres" thread? I apologize for starting a new one, just needed to vent my frustrations.

Do you think Demba Ba or Papis Cisse have better supporting cast at Newcastle than Torres has here? Do you really think someone like Van Persie, for example, wouldn't be quite prolific in our team if we swapped Torres for him?

I think if we played exactly the same way as we do now with any of those strikers, ie booting the ball up the pitch for RvP to head as if he were Drogba, then we'd be complaining about their production as well.

As far as Cisse and Ba are concerned, it's relevant to point out that they have 3 goals between them this year. Torres alone has 2.

I think if we played exactly the same way as we do now with any of those strikers, ie booting the ball up the pitch for RvP to head as if he were Drogba, then we'd be complaining about their production as well.

As far as Cisse and Ba are concerned, it's relevant to point out that they have 3 goals between them this year. Torres alone has 2.

Once again, I'm not talking about just this season.

And the teammates don't just hoof the ball in his general direction, Torres is getting plenty of passes to his feet, it's just yet another excuse to blame others for his struggles.

Once again, I'm not talking about just this season.

And the teammates don't just hoof the ball in his general direction, Torres is getting plenty of passes to his feet, it's just yet another excuse to blame others for his struggles.

Your argument starts to break down if you aren't just talking about this season.

If I'm a striker, I'd rather have Newcastle's and Arsenal's 2011-2012 supporting casts supplying me service than Chelsea's.

Your argument starts to break down if you aren't just talking about this season.

If I'm a striker, I'd rather have Newcastle's and Arsenal's 2011-2012 supporting casts supplying me service than Chelsea's.

If he had Arsenal's or Newcastle's supporting cast supplying him, he'd still struggle.

If he had Arsenal's or Newcastle's supporting cast supplying him, he'd still struggle.

Or perhaps he wouldn't.

The bottom line is that Torres hasn't performed up to snuff (although I've not been dissatisfied with him this year - I think he's getting far too much hate because he stormed off down the tunnel), but it's also true that, through a combination of improper tactics and an inadequate supporting cast, we haven't put him in the best position to succeed. To deny either reveals a deeply held bias.

He's finally started scoring early in the season and now we need to write him off?

For the record, I think he needs to stop looking for fouls too, because he is getting nothing from referees (and if you cant see it, youre hopelessly biased). But he has finally started to look like the genuine article most of the time, and fits in perfectly when we have Mata/Hazard in full form.

Long term, I cant wait to see the back of him at this club because of all the bullsh*t that goes with him. In true, modern fashion, he has become the crux of a debate for which there is only right and wrong, white and black, depending on which side theyre on. I used to think American politics was the only place to find debate that fruitless and time-wasting, but these discussions have really run it a close second.

The drama of this guy is sheerly exhausting. And no, I dont mean the frosted blonde one, I mean the keyboard gangfights he leaves in his wake.

Or perhaps he wouldn't.

The bottom line is that Torres hasn't performed up to snuff (although I've not been dissatisfied with him this year - I think he's getting far too much hate because he stormed off down the tunnel), but it's also true that, through a combination of improper tactics and an inadequate supporting cast, we haven't put him in the best position to succeed. To deny either reveals a deeply held bias.

A balanced view....I wonder how long until you are accused of being a member of the Torres Taliban and branded as deluded because you care to point out that despite a huge outlay on attacking midfield talent, we have not been and are still not playing to his strengths.

These threads anger me I don't know why I come into them. I said at the start that he'll get 25+ goals for us this season and a couple of bad games has not changed my mind.

Care for a small wager on the matter, looser donates a healthy 20 pound to the site?, as in i don't believe he will get 25+ for us this season

If some of the fans who spend so much time and effort slagging Torres off put half that amount into backing him then I wonder if it would help him.

If some of the fans who spend so much time and effort slagging Torres off put half that amount into backing him then I wonder if it would help him.

Oh come on dkw, we've been supporting him since day one, most of us still do and will until he's not with the club anymore. Does that mean we should be blind to his obvious flaws? Whatever happened to "no man is more important than the club "? Torres himself admitted in various interviews that it was CFC fans' unequivocal support that carried him through this tough period. And he should be f**king grateful, considering the return we've got on that investment.

Check any non-CFC forum views on Torres situation and you'll see that even those who'd love to have a laugh at our expence don't blame the team setup or tactics or lack of service or quality of our midfield. They call it the way they see it, it's on Torres. I realize we have to protect our own but can you objectively still cite outside reasons for the fact Torres doesn't look half the player he used to be so long after we bought him? Really?

A balanced view....I wonder how long until you are accused of being a member of the Torres Taliban and branded as deluded because you care to point out that despite a huge outlay on attacking midfield talent, we have not been and are still not playing to his strengths.

What are his current strengths exactly? He doesn't seem to be able to go past opponents by virtue of either speed or trickery or physical strength or any combination of those three.

This post says it even better.

http://www.theshedend.com/topic/19283-the-everything-you-want-to-say-about-torres-thread/page__st__2540#entry533846

The only issue I have with him is the strop he had when subbed. It's the managers right to sub him if he believes it could be to the benefit of the team to try a different approach/personnel.

The last thing I want is RDM to be tentative to be bold with substitutions if he believes it's to the benefit of the team no matter who that player is...

Edited September 21, 201213 yr by Fast Eddie

Dear mr Moderator, please amalgamate this thread, with other, Torres thread, thanks with anticipation, cannot wait to see falcao here. ;-)

f**k me we really didn’t need ANOTHER Torres thread. I know some threads get a bit long and posters probably worry that their point will get lost or missed in the realms of pages but another Torres bashing thread? Still, as it exists, I’ll have my two bob’s worth………..

He is our No 9 and for that very reason we are all expecting his main contribution to be goals and plenty of them. At the moment we are clearly still not getting enough goals which is a bit of a worry as strikers is the area where we don’t have many options (but the lack of alternatives is NOT Torres fault). I think a lot of his general play is fantastic. Winning balls, dribbling, passing etc but the trouble is we now have umpteen players who can do that and what we need is GOALS. Torres shouldn’t be dropping deep or drifting out wide. He might not be a target man or a traditional No 9 but he does need to stay in the area where he should be a threat and at least be in a position to be putting the ball in the back of the net. We need to see less of Torres out by the touchline showing good skill but not really going anywhere and more of the goal v Newcastle, the hat-trick v QPR and the goal v Barca. Every time he scores a goal you think this is it, Torres is back, he’s going to go on a run now only for him then to have 3 or 4 games where he draws a blank and his contribution varies from decent to non-existent.

I still believe he can be the No. 9 we need but the clock is ticking and I have a gut feeling he has until January to prove it. If he is still suffering the same inconsistencies then, I think the club will cut their losses and look to trade him in (probably meaning we go all out for Falcao).

In respect of my own Fantasy Football Team he doesn’t have that long. He has been given the ultimatum – he scores at least one against Stoke or he’s sold!!

The concepts of criticism and support are not mutually exclusive, yet there seems to be an underlying split between the two camps here. If that's the case, then I'm afraid I'll have to stay with a foot in each. I am terribly frustrated with the return we have had from the lad as the statistics really don't lie, it's plain for all to see that he's really not produced anything even close to his best. This is not mindlessly lambasting the lad, this is a considered opinion based what we can all see.

I will continue to back him and sing his name in the hope that he will find his mojo again, but if truth be told, my throat is getting sore and his performances are hardly soothing. Granted, we do see flashes of his unquestionable talent and I along with many others hang on to it in the hope of a purple patch, but a sustained period of defence terrorizing has yet to be achieved.

When we signed him, I was a little concerned about his lack of recent form at the Dippers, but had an overriding feeling of inflated optimism, due to his blindingly obvious world class talent. And that's the worst thing of it all. He is clearly one of the most naturally gifted strikers in world football and if he ever does rediscover his lethal best, then we will be laughing all the way to the title.

However, 9 goals in 50 league games and 15 in 74 overall is not even close to the sort of figures we should be citing.

I will carry on backing him as I would just love it, just love it and I'll tell ya, I'd just love it if he proves all his doubters wrong. My optimism is running thin though.

I've got a bad knee at the moment otherwise I'd join in with kneejerk reactions!!

So far this season we have played 7 games, I'll include the prestige friendlies, and Torres has scored 3 goals, so he is scoring a goal every 2.3 games, ask any striker if they would like that scoring rate?

Lets only include games that matter (i.e PL & CL) we've played 5 games and he's scored 2 or a goal every 2.5 games, again a very respectable strike rate!

He played badly on Wednesday night and by all accounts last Saturday as well, yet on the flipside he was man of the match against Newcastle!

2 things that we should note from the past 2 games is that Mata didn't play, so we've not had our first choice attack in place, thats not an excuse its an observation!

I actually think that both Torres and Hazard looked better players when Mata came on on Wednesday night, so lets all pray that Mata doesn't get injured!

So to sum up, he's actually started the season well, but had a couple of bad games....................................... Must be time to sell him!

I've got a bad knee at the moment otherwise I'd join in with kneejerk reactions!!

So far this season we have played 7 games, I'll include the prestige friendlies, and Torres has scored 3 goals, so he is scoring a goal every 2.3 games, ask any striker if they would like that scoring rate?

Lets only include games that matter (i.e PL & CL) we've played 5 games and he's scored 2 or a goal every 2.5 games, again a very respectable strike rate!

im curious if last season you were one of the folk saying "guys, who cares if torres isnt scoring, he works for the team"

no knee jerk here, i havent been impressed with him at all this season. looks the same player to me as the last 6 months of last season. people praised him in the newcastle match, but he still did his usual routine of lose the ball within 2 touches and run straight into defenders - a good/on form striker would've had a couple to his name that day.

thing is, goals by themselves don't matter. as long as you are making the right decisions, at the right times, and executing them well, then goals and winning matches is just the by product of that. to me, torres is not making the right decisions at the right times and very rarely executes them well.

if you were one of those people last season saying we shouldn't care if torres isn't on the scoresheet and instead to focus on his overall game, then you shouldn't be bringing his goals up now either.

my question to you, do you really see an improvement this season so far, over the torres of last season? and if you do, specifically what improvements do you see?

Edited September 21, 201213 yr by onebelo

im curious if last season you were one of the folk saying "guys, who cares if torres isnt scoring, he works for the team"

no knee jerk here, i havent been impressed with him at all this season. looks the same player to me as the last 6 months of last season. people praised him in the newcastle match, but he still did his usual routine of lose the ball within 2 touches and run straight into defenders - a good/on form striker would've had a couple to his name that day.

thing is, goals by themselves don't matter. as long as you are making the right decisions, at the right times, and executing them well, then goals and winning matches is just the by product of that. to me, torres is not making the right decisions at the right times and very rarely executes them well.

if you were one of those people last season saying we shouldn't care if torres isn't on the scoresheet and instead to focus on his overall game, then you shouldn't be bringing his goals up now either.

my question to you, do you really see an improvement this season so far, over the torres of last season? and if you do, specifically what improvements do you see?

Brilliant!!!

So last season when he was creating chances but not scoring, lots of people were on his back saying he needs to score!

This season he's scoring, but perhaps not creating as much, lots of people are on his case saying he needs to create!!

You couldn't make it up!

For the record, I don't care who scores for the team, I don't support individual players I support Chelsea!

Brilliant!!!

So last season when he was creating chances but not scoring, lots of people were on his back saying he needs to score!

This season he's scoring, but perhaps not creating as much, lots of people are on his case saying he needs to create!!

You couldn't make it up!

why do you keep talking to people like their opinion is the exact same as other people?

Edited September 21, 201213 yr by onebelo