Torres is clearly in form. He played very well during the week and put in a shift that Ba does not give when played up top alone.

however I'd not play Torres against United purely on the fact he's played midweek football and Ba will be rested and fresh plus he has the edge over them with his goals against them recently.

I'd not cry if Torres started though, after midweek he deserves it IMO.

 

 

My God! How differently we must see games! Such a resounding vote of confidence following a good performance in the Europa League against an inferior side from Switzerland. Liverpool and all the other big games this season, all ready forgotten.

 

But I do admire how you have the courage of your convictions and have firmly nailed your colours to the mast. I know there are others who share your hope  and prefer him to Ba but they are not as open as you, probably for fear of Torres, once more, not delivering the goods when required. And make no mistake over the next four days, the goods have to be delivered.

SP how can you possible construe my previous post as "hate" for Torres? That is an incredible leap and something I think you want to believe. You often accuse the people who lambast Torres as being unfair, perhaps you will recognise the paranoia in your own accusation?

 

As to the points I make, as ever I am more than happy for you to give me some specifics,(in fact I would welcome it), on where exactly what I have posted is wrong in your opinion.

 

Do you think like Bluehatter that should Ba start tomorrow and not play well, that Torres would automatically warrant a start against Tottenham? Do you think Torres is in-form?

Just, this is getting ridiculous now! I once again never said anything of the sort. I said that if ba has a poor game and torres comes on and changes the game then he would warrant a start against spurs. I didn't say if ba has a poor game then no matter what torres does if he comes on he would deserve a start. I would still want to see something significant from torres for him to start the next one. 

 

Do you understand?

Edited May 4, 201313 yr by Bluehatter

My God! How differently we must see games! Such a resounding vote of confidence following a good performance in the Europa League against an inferior side from Switzerland. Liverpool and all the other big games this season, all ready forgotten.

But I do admire how you have the courage of your convictions and have firmly nailed your colours to the mast. I know there are others who share your hope and prefer him to Ba but they are not as open as you, probably for fear of Torres, once more, not delivering the goods when required. And make no mistake over the next four days, the goods have to be delivered.

Don't cry because I have a different view point to yourself.

I don't hail Torres as a fantastic striker or that he will destroy United, but he is playing well and scoring some goals. You say inferior team from Switzerland but I Recall them as a team that has beat teams like Man Utd and Spurs.

It's very easy to dismiss Basel, but they were playing very well on Thursday even though I still felt we were in control, Torres goal was very timely and gave us the springboard with which to build our victory.

It would depend on how Torres performed if the situation arose.

In your post you pointed out that Torres was unlikely to play well, if he did come on, and even if he did it would be even unlikelier that he could play well again in the next match.

If he plays well let's give him some credit & that credit should extend to a chance to start the following game. If he doesn't perform then he gets taken off.

We know its not the case but wouldn't it be good to see the form player get a run?

Also Ba has had a couple of bad games for us, lets not pretend otherwise.

 

Yes but Ba has not had any stinkers which was one of Bluehatter's assumptions in his scenario that leads to Torres selection against Tottenham.

 

Drogba had bad games as well but, invariably, always delivered in the big games against the big teams. That is what made him such a farking awesome player. To his credit, despite not being regular first choice starter, Ba has also done that since he arrived. In contrast Torres has never done it in over two years and one good game in mid-week against 2nd rate Swiss opposition doesn't convince me he will do it in the future. Looking purely from a striker's perspective everything Ba normally does is superior to Torres - movement, control, aerial ability, hold-up play, anticipation, invention, positioning and finishing. It is all better than Torres.

 

Which is why, even if Ba had a stinker tomorrow, I wouldn't even consider leaving him out for Torres on Wednesday night. He has proven he can do it for us so I would give him the benefit of the doubt, call it a bad day at the office, and give him another chance.

 

That's only fair I think given all the chances Torres has been given and in the end, squandered.

Edited May 4, 201313 yr by just

The difficulty is who to drop, although their is a strong argument to switch to 442 with Ba & Torres up top, Mata & Hazard out wide with maybe Oscar & Luiz in midfield.

I'll get my tin hat on now as the bombs come in as to why I'm wrong.

442 is the answer, PLEASE THOUGH PEOPLE DO NOT THINK that im saying 442 is so Torres can be adapted for but i truely believe that the 442 formation is the best.

And i believe Red Nose Fergie would agree with me aswell. So no bombs from me SP.

Don't cry because I have a different view point to yourself.

I don't hail Torres as a fantastic striker or that he will destroy United, but he is playing well and scoring some goals. You say inferior team from Switzerland but I Recall them as a team that has beat teams like Man Utd and Spurs.

 

.............................and also the team that didn't make the group stages of the CL because FC Cluj beat them over two legs.

 

Which players did they field on Thursday that would make our starting line-up, or even the 1st team squad?

.............................and also the team that didn't make the group stages of the CL because FC Cluj beat them over two legs.

Which players did they field on Thursday that would make our starting line-up, or even the 1st team squad?

There striker.......

:)

There striker.......

:)

 

 

Yes dkw, but.............................. only if Ba was injured.

nah, if ba was injured we would play luiz up front. I actually was massively impressed by the attacker who scored, salah i think he was called.

OK, so the scenario you set is this;

Ba starts against Man U and has a stinker. He is subbed and Torres comes and plays well. Ergo - Torres should start against Tottenham.

If I may say, your scenario makes the following assumptions that are not based on on logic and past experience:

1. That Ba starts against Man U. Hopefully you are right but I wouldn't be at all suprised to see Nando running out of the tunnel at 3.50pm tomorrow afternoon. You see not all players at Chelsea are picked on form.

2. Ba starts and has a stinker. Since joining us and despite the limited amount of football has he been given, I have not seen him have a complete stinker. Especially against top level opponents. Torres I have seen have plenty of stinkers. Especially against top level oppenents.

3. Torres comes on plays well. I refer you to point 2 above.

Bluehatter, even in the unlikely event that your scenario happen,s can't you see what the Tottenham is going to be? The decider for a CL place. Millions of pounds at stake. Perhaps the future of some of our current squad. Would you really, based on everything you have seen from him in the past two and a bit years, be happy to see Torres to be starting that game?

It doesn't really matter if we're happy or not. It's Rafa's decision and we get f**k all say in it, sadly.

 

 

 

Edited May 5, 201313 yr by kevin o'kane

nah, if ba was injured we would play luiz up front. I actually was massively impressed by the attacker who scored, salah i think he was called.

 

Good idea, he has outscored Torres in the EPL in 2013 so it's natural if we want to win a match he would be a better option. 

The difficulty is who to drop, although their is a strong argument to switch to 442 with Ba & Torres up top, Mata & Hazard out wide with maybe Oscar & Luiz in midfield.

I'll get my tin hat on now as the bombs come in as to why I'm wrong.

 

Mata and Hazard are not traditional wingers, they would not play out there and would offer very little in terms of tracking back. Oscar and Luiz are both forward-minded, they look to make runs into the box and as such would leave us completely exposed when we lose the ball. Torres and Ba are both strikers and there would be no link up man between them and the midfield. We would get overrun.

whether ba or torres?.fairly easy assessment imo.one has had enough time to prove himself.If you spend 50 millon on a player you should expect an instant return no?.i'm not saying he should be lighting up the premiership in every game,but he is supposed to be playing for a top european team.ask yourself would he make the starting lineup for any other top premiership team?.

 

compare him to suarez.second highest scorer in the league,holds the ball,makes it easier for the midfield,scores goals that is created by himself,does that sound like torres?.then we have ba.degree of difficulty in goals he's scored compared to torres?.common we all know the answer.

 

neither is the answer imo in the long term but in fairness ba has not been given enough time,or continuity

 

 

as long as we keep luiz in the centre of the park and keep mikel away from it,we will get top four no doubt.as well as winning the europa.

Mata and Hazard are not traditional wingers, they would not play out there and would offer very little in terms of tracking back. Oscar and Luiz are both forward-minded, they look to make runs into the box and as such would leave us completely exposed when we lose the ball. Torres and Ba are both strikers and there would be no link up man between them and the midfield. We would get overrun.

Traditional wingers as i remember came in the mould of Pat Nevin, Chris Waddle etc etc. Traditional wingers didnt even tackle let alone track back.

Luiz is a defender and ok he is forward minded as you say but first and foremost he plays a defensive role.

The whole point of 442 is that you dont have a link up man ,you play with one big and one little forward * as in the old english way* and hopefully one compliments the other.

Traditional wingers as i remember came in the mould of Pat Nevin, Chris Waddle etc etc. Traditional wingers didnt even tackle let alone track back.

Luiz is a defender and ok he is forward minded as you say but first and foremost he plays a defensive role.

The whole point of 442 is that you dont have a link up man ,you play with one big and one little forward * as in the old english way* and hopefully one compliments the other.

 

I didn't mean their defensive game. Some wingers do track back quite a bit, our own Damien Duff comes to mind. Mata and Hazard aren't traditional wingers in that they don't stay wide and look to beat their man, they cut in and create from there. Oscar and Luiz would be in a two man midfield in itself, they will both like to go forward when we're in possession. You'd need a more disciplined player there. This would be a perfect setup when you're chasing a game.

Edited May 5, 201313 yr by Teritus

Torres get some credit because he had a decent game against Basel (who knocked out Manchester Utd, Tottenham etc) but somehow we get another few pages of the same old story we've heard for the past 280 pages.

 

For who should start today I would obviously choose Ba, and if it doesnt work out I would bring on Torres with Ba, it has worked a few times this season already. Actually hate the fact that we can never start with 2 strikers.

 

I just don't see how people get jumped for giving him credit when he deserves it.

 

I can admit for defending Torres a lot in the past simply because I wanted the guy to be a success here, but to be honest it would be better for both him and us if he moved on in the summer - its a shame it never worked out, even if he has 20 goals this season which would actually be ok if it happened more regulary its not a lot of game winning goals which is what we need, a predator.

 

Who knows what will happen in the summer!

I'd not cry if Torres started though, after midweek he deserves it IMO.

You think Torres deserves to start. Fine, that's your opinion.

Looks like I didn't make it up after all ..

Mata and Hazard are not traditional wingers, they would not play out there and would offer very little in terms of tracking back. Oscar and Luiz are both forward-minded, they look to make runs into the box and as such would leave us completely exposed when we lose the ball. Torres and Ba are both strikers and there would be no link up man between them and the midfield. We would get overrun.

 

Oscar is a very disciplened footballer, if you asked him to play centre back I believe he would, he'd be no good, but he would stay in position.

 

Hazard has got better at playing wide as the season has progressed.

 

As someone else said the link up man is moot in this formation anyway.

 

You think Torres deserves to start. Fine, that's your opinion.

Looks like I didn't make it up after all ..

 

Are you a healine writer for the 'Sun', it's just this knack you have for taking a singular line from a post and then using it in a totally different context!

Torres: 32 PL games - 7 PL goals (Chelsea)

Sturridge: 11 PL games - 7 PL goals (LIverpool)

 

Says it all really. Well done the Chelsea board. Another great decision.

If he starts though, ill be really pissed.

Edited May 5, 201313 yr by Mamizcar

Torres: 32 PL games - 7 PL goals (Chelsea)

Sturridge: 11 PL games - 7 PL goals (LIverpool)

 

Says it all really. Well done the Chelsea board. Another great decision.

if we had players like downing then torres would be banging them in

if we had players like downing then torres would be banging them in

 

Now THAT is funny! 

if we had players like downing then torres would be banging them in

 

Yep we should think about trading either Mata or Hazard for the likes of Downing and Gerrard, once we get either of those Torres would rediscover his form