This is a subjective list, obviously; Torres increasingly making good runs, pulling defences out of shape, creating space for himself and others. He isn't selfish, imo: I can recall seeing several assists this season. He is useful all over the field - he tracks back when needed and makes useful challenges (that last one isn't what he's there for, but it does help). Torres has more energy than for some time, and there's a sense of hunger and confidence about him. That's what I see in his body language and in his facial expressions. He doesn't look (as he often used to) defeated and petulant.

 

This is a subjective list, obviously; Torres increasingly making good runs, pulling defences out of shape, creating space for himself and others. He isn't selfish, imo: I can recall seeing several assists this season. He is useful all over the field - he tracks back when needed and makes useful challenges (that last one isn't what he's there for, but it does help). Torres has more energy than for some time, and there's a sense of hunger and confidence about him. That's what I see in his body language and in his facial expressions. He doesn't look (as he often used to) defeated and petulant.

 

I give up.

I'd like to continue this battle of wits, but you are unarmed.

This is a subjective list, obviously; Torres increasingly making good runs, pulling defences out of shape, creating space for himself and others. He isn't selfish, imo: I can recall seeing several assists this season. He is useful all over the field - he tracks back when needed and makes useful challenges (that last one isn't what he's there for, but it does help). Torres has more energy than for some time, and there's a sense of hunger and confidence about him. That's what I see in his body language and in his facial expressions. He doesn't look (as he often used to) defeated and petulant.

 

As to centre-forwards who are less capable than Torres, there are many. Aside from issues of injury, etc, I can suggest Petric, Holt, Anichebe, Remy, Di Santo, etc. 

 

For what it's worth, I agree completely that Torres is some way off being in form. However, he isn't the worst centre-forward. That's my issue; the word 'worst' means that every other centre-forward is above him, in ability. I can't see that.

That's what you'll have seen against Basel, but at Anfield he was truly dreadful. Typical of Torres, he'll put in a shift, appear to be getting back to some kind of form, and then he'll have a complete stinker, or a run of complete stinkers.

 

The problem with the onebelo's is that they appear to base their assessment of Torres purely on the stinkers. Ask them and they'll tell you he's useless, full stop. The Torres situation has much in common with that of Mikel. There are people who refuse to acknowledge that Mikel has or has ever had any value to the squad. And as with Mikel, mention that he wasn't too bad, that he actually contributed - not that he put in a world beating performance, but merely that he had a good game, and you'll get the same old tired fanboy nonsense.

 

Of course the size of the fee is of relevance. Fact is, he's not a £50million player, never was and never will be. We (i.e. Abramovich) were complete mugs to fork out that much for a player who had been off form for some time.

 

Added to the resentment at the continual selection of an off form Torres and the ludicrous situation of starting a Premiership season with only one fully fit recognised striker, annoyance and worry that Sturridge will go on to great things at Anfield, and it's no wonder Torres comes in for more than his fair share of stick.

 

As with the appointment of Benitez, the board are the real culprits here.

dont mind me, please carry on with your discussion. i just think youre opinion here is very humourous, so much so that i doubt even the the biggest torres lovers would side by your observations... nevermind you yourself stating having not seen"Torres regularly" and "haven't seen him consistently over the past two years."

Can't argue with anything you've said there TD. I'm not well-placed to argue about the overall form of Torres, but - as you say - the view that he's useless, full stop, is over the top. He does need to improve - couldn't disagree at all there. It must be frustrating to see him up and down, particularly when you see what he can do, when playing well.

Hey Bluebur i sympathise, once played as the 'glory hunter', so have a strikers empathy with you, We know when Torres struggles, and its painful to watch, but also realise when he wants he is pure class, i agree he doesnt produce every game, well hardly ever. But he has the game i so envy.

I'd like to know when torres has claimed to be brilliant game after game?

I was talking about you doing that for him, after all, you have been his biggest apologist on these boards.

As for your assertion that playing centre-forward makes you an expert, I'm reminded of the story of the turnip that travelled the world .. Guess what? It still came back a turnip.

It's okay Nando, you can sign back in as Bluehatter now.

Refer to the Jimmy Greave's book on How to be a lazy yet succesful centre forward.

A centre forward needs to be able to do one thing constantly " PUT THE BALL IN THE BACK OF THE NET " any other on pitch skill is surplus when he is doing the former consistently.

I was talking about you doing that for him, after all, you have been his biggest apologist on these boards.

As for your assertion that playing centre-forward makes you an expert, I'm reminded of the story of the turnip that travelled the world .. Guess what? It still came back a turnip.

It's okay Nando, you can sign back in as Bluehatter now.

Once again when have I said he is brilliant game after game? Stop making a tit out of yourself and making false statements it's getting boring.

 

Are you incapable of reading? I actually think in one of your previous posts you quoted me when I said playing the position doesn't make me an expert. I'm sure your next post will be about me saying something that I have never said so carry on.

Refer to the Jimmy Greave's book on How to be a lazy yet succesful centre forward.

A centre forward needs to be able to do one thing constantly " PUT THE BALL IN THE BACK OF THE NET " any other on pitch skill is surplus when he is doing the former consistently.

 

Slightly off-topic here, which may be a relief to those who do not thrive on a constant diet of spiteful jibes:

I am currently reading Bobby Robson's autobiography "Farewell, But Not Goodbye"

 

In it he says:

 

Jimmy Greaves was another colleague I loved. Walter (Winterbottom) would describe some elaborate moves to us, passing moves involving several players, and then say "At the end of all that, Jimmy will score a goal."  Jimmy would sit there, listening, saying nothing, before finally piping up :"Do you want me to score it with my left foot, Walter, or my right?"

 

Slightly off-topic here, which may be a relief to those who do not thrive on a constant diet of spiteful jibes:

I am currently reading Bobby Robson's autobiography "Farewell, But Not Goodbye"

In it he says:

Jimmy Greaves was another colleague I loved. Walter (Winterbottom) would describe some elaborate moves to us, passing moves involving several players, and then say "At the end of all that, Jimmy will score a goal." Jimmy would sit there, listening, saying nothing, before finally piping up :"Do you want me to score it with my left foot, Walter, or my right?"

Well said - we have got carried away.

Good debate, by and large, and interesting to read views re 'Nando.

Is he useless or is he useful is not the correct question, in my opinion. Trailing by 1 goal, with 20 minutes to go, Torres comes to the pitch from the bench. Do you think to yourself "Now we have a fighting chance !" ? No doubt, Torres will try hard and will be generally useful to the team effort. But will he change the dynamics of the game? Sadly, no. So, my question would be - is Torres a game changer or is he a good squad player?

Once again when have I said he is brilliant game after game?

Hilarious. You've creamed your knickers every time he has done something remotely competent, like trap a ball.

Is he useless or is he useful is not the correct question, in my opinion. Trailing by 1 goal, with 20 minutes to go, Torres comes to the pitch from the bench. Do you think to yourself "Now we have a fighting chance !" ? No doubt, Torres will try hard and will be generally useful to the team effort. But will he change the dynamics of the game? Sadly, no. So, my question would be - is Torres a game changer or is he a good squad player?

He is not even a good squad player in a sense that every squad player fulfils a certain role in a team. The job of a striker is to score goals, whether he's a starter or a squad player. Torres is very poor as a starter and, considering how much time ne needs to accumulate even a modest amount of goals, he would contribute even less as a squad player, to say nothing of how costly is the idea of him being a bench warmer for years to come.

Hilarious. You've creamed your knickers every time he has done something remotely competent, like trap a ball.

Unfortunately not young Davey, I can't remember the last time anyone posted anything other than Torres had a 'decent, good' game or that he contributed, no one ever says he was 'outstanding, brilliant' this only goes on in some posters minds.

I'll go and log back in under bluehatters signin now! ;)

Unfortunately not young Davey, I can't remember the last time anyone posted anything other than Torres had a 'decent, good' game or that he contributed, no one ever says he was 'outstanding, brilliant' this only goes on in some posters minds.

I'll go and log back in under bluehatters signin now! ;)

Not so SP. Unbelievably, it still goes on. Only a week or two back, after the Rubin game I think, we had people saying he was almost back to his best, and rightly getting shot down in flames. Thursday night goals against sh*t sides have to be taken in context, and his overall game by any respectable standards is sh*t. It amazes me that the same people who won't hear a bad word about Torres continually slagged Sturridge, and still do, even after his move, despite Sturridge being a trillion times better. That one really annoys me but hey ho, I'll live with it. I'm still angry with the club over that one. Even you go amazingly quiet on the sturridge thread when he bangs them in for Liverpool, but when he plays poorly you're the first one on there. Still, stop trying to pretend you're Bluehatter. At least you occasionally talk sense.

 

Edit: By the way SP, before you go into one about Sturridge ;)

 

As long as he plays football he will never put in a performance as insipid, heartless and gutless as Nando's against Liverpool, a performance which was sadly oh-so-typical. Any kind of test he fails again and again and worst of all, he was in the press soon after that game, saying part of the problem is we rely too much on individuals whereas Liverpool played more as a team. I mean, has this man no shame? I'm amazed at how forgiving some of you are but not me. The guy's a disgrace and doesn't belong at our club as far as I'm concerned, and no amount of goals against teams that quite frankly couldn't compete in the Championship will change my view.

Edited May 4, 201313 yr by Davey Baby

Won't be surprised if the waiter starts him tomorrow it seems there may be a clause in fatty's interim contract that states FT starts all

big prem games

I was shocked he started against Liverpool, and i mean really shocked. Torres had played most of the second half of the FA cup semi, then he played the full 90 at Fulham, then he started against Liverpool and got the full 90 when the next match after that was Europa and he had to play the full 90. I didn't even consider Torres would start against Liverpool, i assumed Ba would just get the whole game.

I was shocked he started against Liverpool, and i mean really shocked. Torres had played most of the second half of the FA cup semi, then he played the full 90 at Fulham, then he started against Liverpool and got the full 90 when the next match after that was Europa and he had to play the full 90. I didn't even consider Torres would start against Liverpool, i assumed Ba would just get the whole game.

Reason for the FSW starting with nando over ba.

The fsw in his almighty ignorance really thought that the Dipperpool game was going to be the redeemer for Torres where he came good. And therefore become the messiah for all Chelsea fans who done the impossible.

It didnt happen and so the story continues......

I was shocked he started against Liverpool, and i mean really shocked. Torres had played most of the second half of the FA cup semi, then he played the full 90 at Fulham, then he started against Liverpool and got the full 90 when the next match after that was Europa and he had to play the full 90. I didn't even consider Torres would start against Liverpool, i assumed Ba would just get the whole game.

 

Correct. My take on it is this ..

 

The FSW wanted to be heralded as the only man who could get Torres to score against the dippers. I mean, imagine the acclaim he would have received off a fawning press. It's the only conclusion I can draw. That's why he not only started him but inexplicably kept him on the whole game and kept an in-form Ba on the bench. Ba had just scored 2 great goals against the best 2 teams in the country (as opposed to the likes of Steau Bucharest). I'm convinced this was a classic example of the FSW putting his own agenda before the team's. Disgraceful.

Edited May 4, 201313 yr by Davey Baby

I was getting a bit Radio 4 - about to start a discussion about truth...

'...today on The Moral Maze, we ask: can truth ever be absolute; is it not shaped by the societal, cultural and...' etc. :-)

What do you think of Torres, Moi?

 

 

Sorry, Thfc, I've only just seen this. I didn't mean to be ignoring you.  I think he is a poor soul, who must lie awake at night praying that tomorrow will be the day when he finds his lost self. His body language is very open to interpretation.  Where some see a petulant bloke who doesn't give a damn, I see a man who has lost confidence in himself.  Occasionally a glimpse of his former self bursts through, but not very often.  When he does play badly, I am as sure as I can be that he is not doing it on purpose and that he is miserable with himself about it.

 

The 50 million pound price was not of his doing - we can blame the board for that.  At the time people in the Torres thread on here were screaming for him to be bought.  I don't remember anyone coming into the thread saying "NO, don't buy him!" But I am open to correction if anyone can find a quotation - if you can be bothered going back that far.

 

I think it was a great mistake to have played him in that first game against Liverpool.   But that's all water under the bridge.

 

What I find disconcerting and disagreeable is the level of hatred expressed both for him and for anyone who dares to give him some credit for the few things he does right. "If you don't think as I think, you must be a moron who knows nothing about football."  Yeah, right!

I like Torres but I can't handle his inconsistency, it's just never going to happen for him here unfortunately. Yes he has improved over time but it's not enough, for his sake and ours it's better if he leaves. Hopefully he can do better at another club.

Sorry, Thfc, I've only just seen this. I didn't mean to be ignoring you. I think he is a poor soul, who must lie awake at night praying that tomorrow will be the day when he finds his lost self. His body language is very open to interpretation. Where some see a petulant bloke who doesn't give a damn, I see a man who has lost confidence in himself. Occasionally a glimpse of his former self bursts through, but not very often. When he does play badly, I am as sure as I can be that he is not doing it on purpose and that he is miserable with himself about it.

The 50 million pound price was not of his doing - we can blame the board for that. At the time people in the Torres thread on here were screaming for him to be bought. I don't remember anyone coming into the thread saying "NO, don't buy him!" But I am open to correction if anyone can find a quotation - if you can be bothered going back that far.

I think it was a great mistake to have played him in that first game against Liverpool. But that's all water under the bridge.

What I find disconcerting and disagreeable is the level of hatred expressed both for him and for anyone who dares to give him some credit for the few things he does right. "If you don't think as I think, you must be a moron who knows nothing about football." Yeah, right!

No need to apologise - it's hard to keep track of all the posts here Moi :-)

You make a good, fair, assessment of Torres. The combination of the price tag, fragile confidence and a difficult start, may have been too much.

The situation must be incedibly frustrating for Chels fans. Like you, it's the unpleasantness (i.e. 'how hard is it to grasp?') and the absoluteness that is a problem.

The 50 million pound price was not of his doing - we can blame the board for that.  At the time people in the Torres thread on here were screaming for him to be bought.  I don't remember anyone coming into the thread saying "NO, don't buy him!" But I am open to correction if anyone can find a quotation - if you can be bothered going back that far.

 

I had not joined the forum at the time, but we were linked with Torres(although he was out injured a lot) in the summer of 2010 and on a different forum I had the following things to say about his transfer - keep in mind that at that point Torres had a pretty good season at Liverpool but it was just crazy money for a player who I've always though was great but not World Class. 

 

June 16th, 2010, 16:50

 

I'd take Neymar instead for a lot less money ....

 

June 18th, 2010, 13:30

 

 

Torres for 50 million - no thanks.

Especially right now since Drogba still got a couple of seasons left in him. Might as well plan for the future.

 

July 6th, 2010, 13:01

 

 

Rumors about Torres become more frequent - 50 million .... insane money.

Considering Drogba; Anelka; Daniel & Kalou is buying a striker for 50 million really a good idea? It's all in Roman's hands though, like Sheva before if he has decided to bring in a player nothing will stop him including a crazy fee.

Edited May 4, 201313 yr by Las7

That's what you'll have seen against Basel, but at Anfield he was truly dreadful. Typical of Torres, he'll put in a shift, appear to be getting back to some kind of form, and then he'll have a complete stinker, or a run of complete stinkers.

 

The problem with the onebelo's is that they appear to base their assessment of Torres purely on the stinkers. Ask them and they'll tell you he's useless, full stop. The Torres situation has much in common with that of Mikel. There are people who refuse to acknowledge that Mikel has or has ever had any value to the squad. And as with Mikel, mention that he wasn't too bad, that he actually contributed - not that he put in a world beating performance, but merely that he had a good game, and you'll get the same old tired fanboy nonsense.

 

Of course the size of the fee is of relevance. Fact is, he's not a £50million player, never was and never will be. We (i.e. Abramovich) were complete mugs to fork out that much for a player who had been off form for some time.

 

Added to the resentment at the continual selection of an off form Torres and the ludicrous situation of starting a Premiership season with only one fully fit recognised striker, annoyance and worry that Sturridge will go on to great things at Anfield, and it's no wonder Torres comes in for more than his fair share of stick.

 

As with the appointment of Benitez, the board are the real culprits here.

 

TD the difference with the Mikel scenario is that Torres' few good performances invariably happen against lesser opposition. Against good defenders in top teams he is, 99% of the time........................woeful.

 

Abramovich said in his earlier post said that great strikers raise their game and get their team points when perhaps they themselves, or the side as a whole, under-perform. We have seen that many times this season with RVP. We saw it often enough oursleves with Drogba. Bale done it again today for Tottenham.

 

We haver never seen that from Fernando Torres and we won't do because he is not in the same class as those players. He isn't good enough to be starting for a top european team and I am sure his biggest fans on here; Ballack & Blu, Sweddy and Bluehatter know it also.

See the myth goes on, you will have to go back 100 pages to find anyone saying that Torres should be starting for us, from whatever poster.

Everyone knows we need a new striker, just not everyone is full of hate for our current number 9