I'm getting pretty tired of people using the "well we didn't win the league when Mata was here" excuse. We haven't won the league for 5 years, with players like Cech, Cole, Terry, Lampard, etc... all playing in the team week in and week ou as well. Mata was not the sole reason we didn't win the league, despite how some people make it seem. He was the only bright spark in a sh*te team for several years and without him we probably would have finished even lower in the league than we did. 

 

Mata was scoring and assisting for fun when he was given the license to play, under AVB, RDM and even the Fat One. He made massive contributions in big games when he was needed. Oscar scored a few goals at the beginning of the season, against weak opposition and then goes missing for half a season.

 

They are very different players. Oscar is more of a box-to-box player who will run around and put in tackles. Mata is a more creative #10 who needs the freedom to drift around the pitch. But Jose made his decision on Oscar to be our #10 and I still think it was the wrong one.

I'm getting pretty tired of people using the "well we didn't win the league when Mata was here" excuse. We haven't won the league for 5 years, with players like Cech, Cole, Terry, Lampard, etc... all playing in the team week in and week ou as well. Mata was not the sole reason we didn't win the league, despite how some people make it seem. He was the only bright spark in a sh*te team for several years and without him we probably would have finished even lower in the league than we did. 

 

Mata was scoring and assisting for fun when he was given the license to play, under AVB, RDM and even the Fat One. He made massive contributions in big games when he was needed. Oscar scored a few goals at the beginning of the season, against weak opposition and then goes missing for half a season.

 

They are very different players. Oscar is more of a box-to-box player who will run around and put in tackles. Mata is a more creative #10 who needs the freedom to drift around the pitch. But Jose made his decision on Oscar to be our #10 and I still think it was the wrong one.

 

 

Hold on - don't avoid the fact you brought stat's in to this debate claiming that Mata's must be much better over the course of the  season and then ignore the fact they actually arn't

 

Again to state my position. I was pretty heart broken when Mata left. He is as everyone says one of the  true gentleman left in a game dominated largely by pricks. 

 

He is also when inform a great player to watch. The two factors combined will always endear him to a proper set of fans. 

 

But as you say your self, AVD, RDM and the FAT one all gave him a free role and we got no where near the title. Jose comes in and without a striker we come damed close in season one. With a striker we look like we might win it. 

 

Can we say definitively that we wouldn't have done just as well if not better, absolutely not. But we can say that Jose clearly made the decision as he felt Oscar was better suited to our needs and that Mata's limitations were to great. And it looks like the end has justified the means now. Take in to consideration as well that Jose wouldn't have sold a player he believed to be that great to a direct rival lightly. 

 

And just like the stats, unless you go through every team that they both scored and assisted against (mata has half the assists of oscar so should be easier there) you can't level and flat track bully accusation at oscar. 

 

Do Arsenal not count as a top team by the way? 

 

Mata was scoring and assisting for fun when he was given the license to play, under AVB, RDM and even the Fat One. He made massive contributions in big games when he was needed. Oscar scored a few goals at the beginning of the season, against weak opposition and then goes missing for half a season.

 

True, but when has Oscar ever been given 'license to play' under Jose? He's tasked with doing so much and the primary playmakers are now Fabregas and Hazard. I honestly believe he makes us a far more balanced team than Mata does.

 

Maybe we could've done with Mata last season to help us break down packed defences....but he didn't exactly do much yesterday did he?

Love that back heel, class. Must have watched it like 20 times

 

Only 20? Still watching it... must be up to something like 231,442... 

 

Edited April 19, 201511 yr by the special one

Hold on - don't avoid the fact you brought stat's in to this debate claiming that Mata's must be much better over the course of the  season and then ignore the fact they actually arn't

 

 

 

 

Fair enough, if you want stats:

 

Juan Mata 2011/2012 - 12 Goals, 20 Assists

Juan Mata 2012/2013 - 19 Goals, 27 Assists

Juan Mata 2013/2014 (Chelsea & Man utd) - 7 Goals, 7 Assists (Baring in mind he wasn't playing as much with us and at Man utd he was being played in stupid positions like CM)

Juan Mata 2014/2015 - 9 Goals, 8 Assists

 

 

Oscar 2012/2013 - 12 Goals, 9 Assists

Oscar 2013/2014 - 11 Goals, 6 Assists

Oscar 2014/2015 - 7 Goals, 9 Assists

 

 

I am not saying Oscar is a bad player, but Mata is better. When we have been struggling to break teams down and create chances, you don't think his ability to create goals for others would have come in handy?

 

And if you honestly think that a manager of Jose's quality couldn't have won the league playing Mata instead of Oscar then maybe Jose isn't as good as you think.

 

I am not saying Oscar is a bad player, but Mata is better. When we have been struggling to break teams down and create chances, you don't think his ability to create goals for others would have come in handy?

 

Would have come in handy yesterday for United.

 

In the league this season, Oscar has double the number of assists as Mata in roughly the same number of minutes.

Edited April 19, 201511 yr by Blue Daze

Would have come in handy yesterday for United.

 

He is not the messiah, you cannot expect him to make a difference every single game and hold it against him if he doesn't. I'm so tired of these stupid arguments people come up with.

 

Clearly a lot of you are happy not to have him and happy with Oscar's performances. Fair enough. I think we could have had a lot better if we'd stuck with Mata.

He is not the messiah, you cannot expect him to make a difference every single game and hold it against him if he doesn't. I'm so tired of these stupid arguments people come up with.

 

Clearly a lot of you are happy not to have him and happy with Oscar's performances. Fair enough. I think we could have had a lot better if we'd stuck with Mata.

 

But to get the best out of Mata, you have to build the team around him don't you? You're the one who spoke about managers giving him 'licence to play'. 

 

Oscar doesn't have 'licence to play'. He's there to fill gaps, assist with the press and the focus is on allowing Hazard and Fabregas to create chances - and yet he has DOUBLE the number of assists of Mata this season. 

 

The arguments in favour of Mata seem to be about 'what would Mata do' whereas the arguments for Oscar tend to focus on 'how would the team do'. 

He is not the messiah, you cannot expect him to make a difference every single game and hold it against him if he doesn't. I'm so tired of these stupid arguments people come up with.

People could say exactly the same thing about Oscar, it amazes me the length some people go to disparage our players.

Mikel, Ramires, Lampard midfield with Torres up front. Looking back, it's quite amazing the side finished where it did those seasons with Mata in the side.

Courtois

Azpi

Terry

Cahill

Iva

Matic

? (A good/decent Fabregas type player on the ball)

Hazard

Mata

Willian/Oscar

Costa

Would that team be good enough for the title...?

Get your point dkw, but Oscar has barely made the difference for months (for third season in a row), not just the odd game

Mikel, Ramires, Lampard midfield with Torres up front. Looking back, it's quite amazing the side finished where it did those seasons with Mata in the side.

 

6th ?

I assume he was referring more to winning cl, fa cup and Europa league in mata's two seasons

People could say exactly the same thing about Oscar, it amazes me the length some people go to disparage our players.

 

You could do, but he has only shown a few glimpses so far in his Chelsea career. The poor performances outweigh the quality ones.

6th ?

I think history is being re written here.

In matas first season we finished 6th with a team that included a younger JT, cahil, ashley Cole, Ivan, Cech, Lampard, ramires, malouda (I didn't rate but many did) and of course Mata. Admittedly Drogba and Torres well past there prime but we also had an on fire sturridge that season. And that team did win the cup and CL double. Not a prem winning team for sure but are you really telling me that the Newcastle team and spuds team where better then us player for player.

Any way that was one season with that dross team that won the champions league, ONE, not multiple then came in Hazard, Oscar and Azpilicueta to bolster things. And let's be honest we got no where near the title.

And then Jose came back.

So let's not make it sound like season after season it was only Mata keeping us afloat, in fact most of the players from. His second season are about to pick up winners medals

Not down to one man, but as two time player of the year, history actually shows what majority of chelsea fans think about his impact at the club..meanwhile, Oscar has never come close to even making the short-list

Not down to one man, but as two time player of the year, history actually shows what majority of chelsea fans think about his impact at the club..meanwhile, Oscar has never come close to even making the short-list

I think it would be interesting to see how Oscar did with no defensive responsibility. And the team built around him

I think it would be interesting to see how Oscar did with no defensive responsibility. And the team built around him

Honestly, Id think he would do exactly the same. When he goes through his off spells he cant do anything right, passing, shooting, close control. But he is always, always running and seems to have a lot of energy. To ne it lopks more like a confidence thing

Mata did it in the big games though i mean lets look it for a minute off the top off my head. In his 2 years he with us scored 2 away at Spurs and set up a goal for Sturridge. Arsenal home he scored the first goal,Arsenal away he set one up and scored one. Scored the winner away at Man Utd scored a free kick at home to Utd. Set up Demba Ba goal agains't Utd in the FA Cup. There is bound to be plenty more i have forgotten and thats just in two seasons with us. Has Oscar done anything like that agasint the big teams?.

I think it would be interesting to see how Oscar did with no defensive responsibility. And the team built around him

 

Exactly, but as it is we have Costa, Hazard and Fabregas as our primary goalscorers and goal creators.

 

We beat Arsenal 2-0 at home earlier this year - Hazard got the first, Fabregas set up Diego for the second but Oscar contributed with an amazing defensive display. That's the balance we have now....and why we don't need Mata.

So Oscar's annual disappearing act is blamed on Jose not giving him enough freedom....sorry, that's nonsense...I accept Jose picks him to play in a more defensive fashion than how mata was played while he was here, but that doesn't excuse his huge number of sub par performances

So Oscar's annual disappearing act is blamed on Jose not giving him enough freedom....sorry, that's nonsense...I accept Jose picks him to play in a more defensive fashion than how mata was played while he was here, but that doesn't excuse his huge number of sub par performances

 

I don't think anyone's excusing his poor performances but which player apart from Hazard has been consistently good since the Swansea match? Zouma? Terry? Remy?

 

The points about his freedom are addressing the comparisons with Mata.

Edited April 19, 201511 yr by Blue Daze

Yes I know that, but the argument being put forward is that Oscar would be a lot better if team built was around him like mata...I was making point that Oscar's below par displays can't be put down to not having same freedom as mata...he's just not been good enough

wrong thread

Edited April 19, 201511 yr by MANoWAR

Has Oscar done anything like that agasint the big teams?.

 

Ask Buffon.