On 23/12/2016 at 07:22, Bobbywoodhogan said:

I actually wouldn't be massively worried if he left, don't get me wrong I would rather keep him but there are more good goalkeepers out there than ever.

I don't know if I agree with that, remember the standard of goalkeeping in the Premier League ten or so years ago: Cech, van der Sar, Reina, Lehmann, Friedel, Howard. Even some of the absolute toss sides had people like Jaaskelainen, Niemi, Schwarzer, Sorensen.

Who in the league currently has someone indisputably top-notch? Us, Arsenal, Man Utd and Tottenham?

4 minutes ago, PloKoon13 said:

I don't know if I agree with that, remember the standard of goalkeeping in the Premier League ten or so years ago: Cech, van der Sar, Reina, Lehmann, Friedel, Howard. Even some of the absolute toss sides had people like Jaaskelainen, Niemi, Schwarzer, Sorensen.

Who in the league currently has someone indisputably top-notch? Us, Arsenal, Man Utd and Tottenham?

There's some good young keepers out there in Butland and Pickford.

6 minutes ago, Bobbywoodhogan said:

There's some good young keepers out there in Butland and Pickford.

I find it hard to properly assess Pickford's abilities considering the absolute dross in front of him*, I just have no idea what to think of him, honestly my most eloquent evaluation of him when watching Sunderland is "that poor bar steward looks pretty good".

 

*(except Djilobodji obviously)

27 minutes ago, PloKoon13 said:

I find it hard to properly assess Pickford's abilities considering the absolute dross in front of him*, I just have no idea what to think of him, honestly my most eloquent evaluation of him when watching Sunderland is "that poor bar steward looks pretty good".

 

*(except Djilobodji obviously)

Haha all I'm saying is if Tibo went there are other good options something you probably couldn't have said a decade ago.

10 minutes ago, Bobbywoodhogan said:

Haha all I'm saying is if Tibo went there are other good options something you probably couldn't have said a decade ago.

I can't really think of any realistic options who wouldn't be a downgrade. He's 24 and on the cusp of world-class, are there any other keepers in the world who can boast that kind of profile?

33 minutes ago, PloKoon13 said:

I can't really think of any realistic options who wouldn't be a downgrade. He's 24 and on the cusp of world-class, are there any other keepers in the world who can boast that kind of profile?

Again I'm not saying we wouldn't have to downgrade but we could certainly get someone good. Butland and Pickford for example have the ability to be one world class

Chelsea should do everything in it's power to keep Courtios at the club long term.

Any replacement is a downgrade.

Tying him, Hazard and Costa on long term deals should be an urgent priority right now. Don't wanna spend my summer anxiously dreading they'd leave. f**king Madrid. I despise that club so much. 

1 hour ago, PloKoon13 said:

I can't really think of any realistic options who wouldn't be a downgrade. He's 24 and on the cusp of world-class, are there any other keepers in the world who can boast that kind of profile?

He is already world class.

2 hours ago, PloKoon13 said:

I don't know if I agree with that, remember the standard of goalkeeping in the Premier League ten or so years ago: Cech, van der Sar, Reina, Lehmann, Friedel, Howard. Even some of the absolute toss sides had people like Jaaskelainen, Niemi, Schwarzer, Sorensen.

Who in the league currently has someone indisputably top-notch? Us, Arsenal, Man Utd and Tottenham?

Us and Spurs. Cech isn't half the keeper he was 2011 and before and is so slow to react to things these days and can't get down quick enough, De Gea needs to be facing six or more shots a game to look great.

Courtois is the complete package and i would go as far as saying almost pre injury Cech level, he can save our arse when we are getting battered (ala Anfield in the Carling cup 2015) and he can also make those crucial saves and catch a cross when he has had nothing to do all game (ala Boro and Sunderland away) to get us the points.  Losing him would be a huge blow, Oblak and maybe Navas (or unearthing the next great keeper like we did with Tibo in the first place) would be the only realistic routes we can take that would even somewhat soften the blow.

1 hour ago, Bobbywoodhogan said:

Again I'm not saying we wouldn't have to downgrade but we could certainly get someone good. Butland and Pickford for example have the ability to be one world class

I understand where you're coming from, but I don't think we should consider losing one of the players we already have who could be one of the greats of the next generation. Unless there is a concrete plan in place to make the team more world-class than it already is, I don't think we should entertain any idea of selling anybody who makes us great.

I accept that we are an exceptionally lucky generation of Chelsea fans. Frankly, when I was growing up, I wondered whether I would see Chelsea win the league in my lifetime, let alone achieving it multiple times, let even further alone winning the Champions League! I could not possibly have fathomed the idea of us being a consistent European force - a genuine contender for 'best team in the world'. I think we should make the best of what we have while we have it - someday I want to tell my grandchildren that Chelsea were once the greatest team in the world. I want us to improve, and never compromise on our quality, at every possible venture.

Of our current team, I only see Courtois, Azpilicueta, Kanté and Hazard as properly exceptional talents. That kind of talent is hard to come by, if we ever get hold of it we should never ever let it go. I don't understand the logic behind that mentality - is the idea that we sign two generationally exceptional talents with the money we receive from selling one of them? If we have the means to do it, I always think that we should be trying to building something paradigmatically exceptional, and in my eyes that means not selling any of the potentially (or readily) world-class talents that we have.

 

Addendum: Apparently I have invented some adverbs.

Re his contract doesn't he have one till 2019? I would genuinely rather run it down if he refuses fresh terms. He will still be young enough for a decade at Madrid in 2019 if thats what he desires and a higher chance at the title and CL for a further two years eclipses any potential transfer fee.

Edited December 29, 20169 yr by Argo

9 minutes ago, Ivanov87 said:

Tying him, Hazard and Costa on long term deals should be an urgent priority right now. Don't wanna spend my summer anxiously dreading they'd leave. f**king Madrid. I despise that club so much. 

agreed 

 

this is huge. Hazard for one will want a bumper

34 minutes ago, PloKoon13 said:

I understand where you're coming from, but I don't think we should consider losing one of the players we already have who could be one of the greats of the next generation. Unless there is a concrete plan in place to make the team more world-class than it already is, I don't think we should entertain any idea of selling anybody who makes us great.

I accept that we are an exceptionally lucky generation of Chelsea fans. Frankly, when I was growing up, I wondered whether I would see Chelsea win the league in my lifetime, let alone achieving it multiple times, let even further alone winning the Champions League! I could not possibly have fathomed the idea of us being a consistent European force - a genuine contender for 'best team in the world'. I think we should make the best of what we have while we have it - someday I want to tell my grandchildren that Chelsea were once the greatest team in the world. I want us to improve, and never compromise on our quality, at every possible venture.

Of our current team, I only see Courtois, Azpilicueta, Kanté and Hazard as properly exceptional talents. That kind of talent is hard to come by, if we ever get hold of it we should never ever let it go. I don't understand the logic behind that mentality - is the idea that we sign two generationally exceptional talents with the money we receive from selling one of them? If we have the means to do it, I always think that we should be trying to building something paradigmatically exceptional, and in my eyes that means not selling any of the potentially (or readily) world-class talents that we have.

 

Addendum: Apparently I have invented some adverbs.

I don't either, I'm simply saying if we were to lose him knowing there are other good options I wouldnt be as worried. That's all I'm trying to get at, getting him to sign a new contract as the best option of course.

12 hours ago, PloKoon13 said:

I understand where you're coming from, but I don't think we should consider losing one of the players we already have who could be one of the greats of the next generation. Unless there is a concrete plan in place to make the team more world-class than it already is, I don't think we should entertain any idea of selling anybody who makes us great.

I accept that we are an exceptionally lucky generation of Chelsea fans. Frankly, when I was growing up, I wondered whether I would see Chelsea win the league in my lifetime, let alone achieving it multiple times, let even further alone winning the Champions League! I could not possibly have fathomed the idea of us being a consistent European force - a genuine contender for 'best team in the world'. I think we should make the best of what we have while we have it - someday I want to tell my grandchildren that Chelsea were once the greatest team in the world. I want us to improve, and never compromise on our quality, at every possible venture.

Of our current team, I only see Courtois, Azpilicueta, Kanté and Hazard as properly exceptional talents. That kind of talent is hard to come by, if we ever get hold of it we should never ever let it go. I don't understand the logic behind that mentality - is the idea that we sign two generationally exceptional talents with the money we receive from selling one of them? If we have the means to do it, I always think that we should be trying to building something paradigmatically exceptional, and in my eyes that means not selling any of the potentially (or readily) world-class talents that we have.

 

Addendum: Apparently I have invented some adverbs.

Luiz is a truly exceptional talent in my opinion. And maybe Costa.

13 hours ago, PloKoon13 said:

I understand where you're coming from, but I don't think we should consider losing one of the players we already have who could be one of the greats of the next generation. Unless there is a concrete plan in place to make the team more world-class than it already is, I don't think we should entertain any idea of selling anybody who makes us great.

I accept that we are an exceptionally lucky generation of Chelsea fans. Frankly, when I was growing up, I wondered whether I would see Chelsea win the league in my lifetime, let alone achieving it multiple times, let even further alone winning the Champions League! I could not possibly have fathomed the idea of us being a consistent European force - a genuine contender for 'best team in the world'. I think we should make the best of what we have while we have it - someday I want to tell my grandchildren that Chelsea were once the greatest team in the world. I want us to improve, and never compromise on our quality, at every possible venture.

Of our current team, I only see Courtois, Azpilicueta, Kanté and Hazard as properly exceptional talents. That kind of talent is hard to come by, if we ever get hold of it we should never ever let it go. I don't understand the logic behind that mentality - is the idea that we sign two generationally exceptional talents with the money we receive from selling one of them? If we have the means to do it, I always think that we should be trying to building something paradigmatically exceptional, and in my eyes that means not selling any of the potentially (or readily) world-class talents that we have.

 

Addendum: Apparently I have invented some adverbs.

Very well said! 

Madrid would never sell Bale or Ramos to anyone else. Truly exceptional players are rare, and most of them are at clubs that will never sell them to us - which makes it all the more important that we remain fair, but also tough. 

There is the argument that we should be decent and allow a player to leave when they want to. In my opinion, it is not indecent to ask people to honour their contractual obligations, which they have signed up for. A player might change his mind over a cocktail during the summer break and ask us to allow him to leave, but then this is exactly the kind of short-circuit decision-making that we as a club have the right to protect ourselves against. 

It's hard for me to see why a player should be allowed to leave whenever they want to, or otherwise frame the club as abusive. It's only fair that the club (and the many millions of people it represents) can protect its interests just as much as much as any player. Therefore we have every right to offer them more money and keep them for as long as they sign up for - without being unfair in the process.

49 minutes ago, PythonLu said:

Very well said! 

Madrid would never sell Bale or Ramos to anyone else. Truly exceptional players are rare, and most of them are at clubs that will never sell them to us - which makes it all the more important that we remain fair, but also tough. 

There is the argument that we should be decent and allow a player to leave when they want to. In my opinion, it is not indecent to ask people to honour their contractual obligations, which they have signed up for. A player might change his mind over a cocktail during the summer break and ask us to allow him to leave, but then this is exactly the kind of short-circuit decision-making that we as a club have the right to protect ourselves against. 

It's hard for me to see why a player should be allowed to leave whenever they want to, or otherwise frame the club as abusive. It's only fair that the club (and the many millions of people it represents) can protect its interests just as much as much as any player. Therefore we have every right to offer them more money and keep them for as long as they sign up for - without being unfair in the process.

Wonder why English clubs don't want to resort to slapping those ridiculous release clauses Real Madrid and Co. like so much. Pay £250m and have him.

1 hour ago, abister1 said:

Wonder why English clubs don't want to resort to slapping those ridiculous release clauses Real Madrid and Co. like so much. Pay £250m and have him.

Because in England you don't have to. I don't get why so many people seem to think a release clause makes it easier to keep a player... We could tell any club to pay 200, 250, 300 Million pounds for our players. It doesn't matter. We're not obligated to sell a player at any price.

12 minutes ago, True Blue23 said:

Because in England you don't have to. I don't get why so many people seem to think a release clause makes it easier to keep a player... We could tell any club to pay 200, 250, 300 Million pounds for our players. It doesn't matter. We're not obligated to sell a player at any price.

No club is obligated to sell any player they don't want to. What it does is stop the outrageous tapping up by clubs and also the players themselves from getting their heads turned easily. It's a statement basically of you can have him as long as you pay this. How many players can you tell me got sold recently below their release clause due to player discontent.

On 12/29/2016 at 16:20, PloKoon13 said:

I understand where you're coming from, but I don't think we should consider losing one of the players we already have who could be one of the greats of the next generation. Unless there is a concrete plan in place to make the team more world-class than it already is, I don't think we should entertain any idea of selling anybody who makes us great.

I accept that we are an exceptionally lucky generation of Chelsea fans. Frankly, when I was growing up, I wondered whether I would see Chelsea win the league in my lifetime, let alone achieving it multiple times, let even further alone winning the Champions League! I could not possibly have fathomed the idea of us being a consistent European force - a genuine contender for 'best team in the world'. I think we should make the best of what we have while we have it - someday I want to tell my grandchildren that Chelsea were once the greatest team in the world. I want us to improve, and never compromise on our quality, at every possible venture.

Of our current team, I only see Courtois, Azpilicueta, Kanté and Hazard as properly exceptional talents. That kind of talent is hard to come by, if we ever get hold of it we should never ever let it go. I don't understand the logic behind that mentality - is the idea that we sign two generationally exceptional talents with the money we receive from selling one of them? If we have the means to do it, I always think that we should be trying to building something paradigmatically exceptional, and in my eyes that means not selling any of the potentially (or readily) world-class talents that we have.

 

Addendum: Apparently I have invented some adverbs.

Funny you should say that. Conte himself has said Tibo can be Chelsea's Buffon if he stays. I'm sure we could find a replacement if we sold him, especially since it would be a record fee for a GK, but you could never be sure his replacement would go on to be as good as him, his talent is that rare. Same can be said for Eden. 

 

As for the release clauses, I think whoever was referring to them not being used in England was saying the big clubs here have more leverage than clubs (95% of them) in Portugal, France, Spain etc... If Matic refused to play for us next season because he wanted a transfer we could afford to keep him around without playing him and he knows it. There's no need for a release clause, we'd get a good price IF we were prepared to sell. Most cant afford to keep hold of good players who want to leave. 

Well, apparently am the only one who gets excited when another team is interested in taking Courtois from us.

On 30 December 2016 at 09:23, Argo said:

Re his contract doesn't he have one till 2019?

Yes.

http://www.chelseafc.com/news/latest-news/2014/09/courtois-signs-new-deal.html?WT.mc_id=social_20140911_31427856

Edited December 31, 20169 yr by Jezz

https://twitter.com/thibautcourtois/status/818370483603275776/video/1

I was glad with his performance today despite not having much to do. I think he is becoming a more complete goal keeper under Conte than he was. Today he was commanding the box like I haven't seen him doing before. Coming out to grab the ball even to the edge of the penalty area. I think he is improving a lot and he is gaining a lot of personality. Glad with his performance this season, he is a much better keeper than previous ones.

Im so damn impressed with Thibaut he's been a force this year...other than Neuer and maybe Ter Steagan I can't think of a better keep out there right now

10 hours ago, DrogbaIsKing said:

Im so damn impressed with Thibaut he's been a force this year...other than Neuer and maybe Ter Steagan I can't think of a better keep out there right now

Ter Stegen is not even close to Courtois. My roommate is a barca fan and he complains about him all the time. He would even prefer to have Bravo back, than continuing with ter Stegen.