we may as well pay an extra 10-15 and try buy varane. dealing with everton is like trying to explain offside to a woman - it's near on impossible! 

 

Ouch..!!

we may as well pay an extra 10-15 and try buy varane. dealing with everton is like trying to explain offside to a woman - it's near on impossible! 

 

Oy!!!

we may as well pay an extra 10-15 and try buy varane. dealing with everton is like trying to explain offside to a woman - it's near on impossible! 

wash your bar steward mouth out you little sh*t.   Or I will give you massive jip

 

 

 

It is impossible usually though lol

Edited August 24, 201510 yr by RickUK

wash your bar steward mouth out you little sh*t.   Or I will give you massive jip

 

 

 

It is impossible usually though lol

Probably only because they're not interested in football at all.  Why try to understand something you don't give a sh*t about?

Edited August 24, 201510 yr by Beerqueen

we may as well pay an extra 10-15 and try buy varane. dealing with everton is like trying to explain offside to a woman - it's near on impossible!

Try explaining the new offside rule to anyone!

Probably only because they're not interested in football at all.  Why try to understand something you don't give a sh*t about?

true. probs why i dont understand 90% of what she says to me

 

 

What time do the national papers usually come online anyone know?  I dont know if its just me but i never seem to find f**k all on a Sat or Sun night

Edited August 24, 201510 yr by RickUK

again, what if green and earl want to sell him or any other board members you may have?  and, what on earth did those fans expect jon wood to say, considering the question and the fact he had a mobile phone camera on him?

 

Did they honestly think he'd say "yeh hes off".   He was never ever going to say anything other than what he did say. 

 

It's like when players are asked "do you want so and so to stay?"  They will never say "nope, hes sh*te"   PR answers

 

Fair point but it's still more concrete than any of the shouts about him asking to move or any of the supposed magic numbers which were reported in numerous media sources we were holding out for (but obviously weren't as we since rejected higher bids).

 

Most of us are just going by what Everton have said. You can tear apart what Martinez didn't say all day long but what he has said (and now a board member too) is that he isn't for sale.

 

To tie into my earlier post, Martinez also doesn't believe in selling your best players. He has a plan and it involves not selling his best players. It's not just Stones but a message to lots of our young players about our ambitions (which are apparently laughable to you all but we gotta hang onto to something). Honestly some of the attitudes make it sound like you don't think we should even try to finish higher than sixth.

Edited August 24, 201510 yr by njligernj

Someone kill me now.

The victim mentally is strong in this one........please shut up whingeing though for gods sake.

If you were managed by the FSW and José came knocking, wouldn't you do everything in your power to make the transfer happen?

Yeah but if madrid don't want to sell, then there is no chance of buying him, because they don't need the money. Varane is looking like he is going to start ahead of pepe, it looks like a complete non starter for me.

I think we should hold off signing a centre back if stones isn't available. Wait a year and see whether we can get stones then. As long as he is at everton, he will be high on mourinho's wish list.

If he ends up somewhere else or we get desperate, then we can look to alternatives like laporte.

Well fair play to Everton and their fans for sticking to their guns and continuing to be a mediocre side with delusions of grandeur.   How the fcuk are you ever going to compete and buy players with no money...times have changed and you need a wad load of cash, so at some point you are going to have to sell one player to buy two or three....best of luck in trying to reach the depths of the Europa league competing with the likes of Liverpool and Spurs.  

oops, i should have shut up 

 

Okay sure so we could have spent half that fee on Pedro then? I've already explained it -- you all seem more keen on cheap shots than actually reading and considering what I'm saying.

Let's say for the sake of argument our first 11 is all 7/10 players. Snide digs about us aside it's not an unreasonable assessment. Some positions are better than others obviously but it's a decent average.

8/10+ players almost always want CL.

Money is therefore not the limiting factor; "status" (for lack of a better term) is the issue.

Pedro was sold for the kind of money almost any Prem team could afford. Certainly the top half. Money was irrelevant.

As for this specific deal first off you have to consider the delta. If Stones is good enough for Chelsea to pay 40m+ then he's a Champions League quality player.

So we lose a CL player.

Can we sign a CL player to replace him? Maybe. Probably not.

We're having a nightmare convincing the maniac who owns Dynamo to sell us Yarmolenko. He's already refused to sell to Stoke because they weren't a prestigious enough club. Stoke had the money.

Again. Money is not the limiting factor in the Yarmalenko deal. We have the money. We have to convince them to sell him and him to sign and so far it hasn't gone well.

I guess you could argue if we had 40m extra we could horrifically overpay for people to get them to come here. Hardly seems like a sustainable strategy destined for success though.

If we constantly lose CL level players we can't replace them with CL talent. We sign Europa-level talent and they sit on our bench.

I'm struggling to see how losing a CL player and replacing him with 40m of Europa players to sit on our bench is making us better.

If you disagree then let me know your thoughts. I'm just telling you our perspective on things. We'd rather have CL players than money we can't spend on CL players.

Two years ago we finished with 72 points which is a point total good enough for fourth almost every single year. Prior to that we finished sixth two years in a row.

I admit it's unlikely but is it really "complete delusion" to suggest we could get a similar points total to one we had just two years ago? I mean is that really so incredibly ludicrous? Again, admittedly unlikely ... but you reacted like I'm a Bournemouth fan talking about fourth.

Also Naismith doesn't start mate. Hasn't started a single game all season. Has been a late sub.

We now have a board member on video saying he won't be sold so we really lucked out with that coincidence.

Glad you brought up Stoke. They signed Shaqiri, who has played in the Champions League many times for the biggest club in Germany. So on the bright side, if Stoke can do it, Everton can as well.

Obviously top tier players arent going to Everton OVER the bigger clubs but I could give you lists of players with CL experience to buy with 40m pounds. You dont think Everton can sign players from Lazio, Valencia, Lisbon etc? Dont think you could pick off players from Sevilla or Lyon?

Yeah but if madrid don't want to sell, then there is no chance of buying him, because they don't need the money. Varane is looking like he is going to start ahead of pepe, it looks like a complete non starter for me.

I think we should hold off signing a centre back if stones isn't available. Wait a year and see whether we can get stones then. As long as he is at everton, he will be high on mourinho's wish list.

If he ends up somewhere else or we get desperate, then we can look to alternatives like laporte.

 

This is Real we're talking about. They do not rate defending.

This is Real we're talking about. They do not rate defending.

Well they didn't have a problem holding onto Sergio ramos. Real mainly sacrifice good players to make room for galactico's.

Well fair play to Everton and their fans for sticking to their guns and continuing to be a mediocre side with delusions of grandeur.   How the fcuk are you ever going to compete and buy players with no money...times have changed and you need a wad load of cash, so at some point you are going to have to sell one player to buy two or three....best of luck in trying to reach the depths of the Europa league competing with the likes of Liverpool and Spurs.  

 

I disagree with your sentiment.

 

If Everton (or Tottenham or Liverpool for that matter) had kept their best players over the years, rather than sold them, they'd be far more competitive today, that's a fact.

 

I totally understand why Everton fans would rather keep Stones than take the cash.

 

For me they've explained it well, Stones is far more useful to them than the money.

How people think Varane will be easier to acquire than Stones is crazy.

Hope this is finally over. Anything above 25m is criminal for a player with his lack of experience

I was thinking today about how much Phil Jones cost United and this really is crazy money for someone who is just as experienced and talented ad Jones was.

I remember seeing him against us at Ewood the season before he was bought and he was easily the best player on the pitch. Made us look silly that afternoon

I disagree with your sentiment.

 

If Everton (or Tottenham or Liverpool for that matter) had kept their best players over the years, rather than sold them, they'd be far more competitive today, that's a fact.

 

I totally understand why Everton fans would rather keep Stones than take the cash.

 

For me they've explained it well, Stones is far more useful to them than the money.

 

 

Davey...first off let me say I do enjoy your posts but I do have a difference of opinion in this case....you may be right in your assessment but the incompetence demonstrated by both Spuds and Bindippers in buying the players they did after letting go their best players in incomprehensible.  The first question is perhaps, Why did those players want to leave Spurs and Liverpool?  The lure of a bigger club and a bigger wage packet no doubt played a part plus the opportunity to play in the CL and be on the world stage; and I am sure the $$$ signs for the Chairman of the selling club also went some way of letting the players go.  

 

While I understand that clubs outside of the supposed 'top 4' all want a part of Champions League Football, the reality is that the % of achieving that these days is very small with the hope that of one of the 'top 4' comes a cropper and even then a team hopes that they become one of the lucky ones to creep in the 4th spot, and even that is a dog fight among probably 4 other teams. Now, although I stated 'tongue in cheek' that Everton are a mediocre side, I suppose I should give them an 'above average' rating within those teams I consider mediocre (teams finishing 6-10)

 

To even give yourself a chance to achieve a top 4 you need a wad of cash, and yes I suppose you can say teams buy a top 4 spot; that unfortunately is the truth across Spain, Italy, France and Germany....the CL has become for all intense and purposes a monopoly...much like F1, Baseball, NBA and any other sport you care to name where money and sponsorship is involved; the bigger the team the more sponsorship money they generate, the more successful they are and the more they buy the best players and that is a fact.  And yes there is the odd blip now and then when a smaller team creeps into the top tier but it is soon corrected when the next season comes around.   I think everyone knows that to compete today in the CL and your domestic league, you need a very good squad consisting of mainly world class international players....how are Everton ever going to attract that sort of talent and even build a squad of about 23-25 players of that calibre.  One or two players with a high market value can bring in 3 - 6 very good international players ...if they want to come, see the prospect of a CL spot and are paid high wages and lets be fair some need their ego stroked too...so what are the prospects of Everton attracting these types of players over Liverpool or Spurs, because even they can't attract the calibre players they need to compete within the CL or challenge for the title domestically when you look at the squads of Chelsea, Man City, Arsenal and loosely Man U who I think at this moment are probably the weakest and most vulnerable of falling outside the top 4.  

 

If Everton sold Stones for 40+ mill I believe they could buy at least 2 high quality players, after all we just paid 20mill+ for Pedro and I am sure if Everton looked hard enough around Europe they could find another 20mill world class / CL experienced player that would love the idea of playing every week in the EPL whereas by going to the likes of a top 4 team they would be in all likelihood be sat on the bench.  By buying quality players at least it would give Everton a hope of reaching the top 4; not that I have sour grapes that it looks like Everton will be keeping Stones, but I do think that it is hindering there ability to buy 2-3 players that will help them domestically in order to reach a top 4 spot, or perhaps they are hoping that by keeping Stones his value will increase...but then the reality is he is of no value if they intend keeping him, he only becomes 'valued' when they decide to sell.  If I was the Chairman of Everton I would sell Stones; there is more than one way to skin a cat here and get a deal done; include quality player(s) + cash or loan deals, Christ Chelsea for one have a ton of good players on loan and quite a few fringe players and so do City and Utd.  If it's a CB that you need to replace then flipping well ask for one in return as part of the deal, perm transfer or otherwise.

 

 IMO Everton are just being stubborn to prove a point that they won't be bullied by one of the top 4, with the hoodwinking of the fans that they are building for the future...what future?  As time goes by the top 4 will get financially stronger, better sponsorship deals, improved TV deals etc, their buying power will be too strong for teams outside of the top 4; the likes of Everton will still be way behind in terms of revenue unless they are bought by a billionaire and will fall further behind in their dream of making it to the CL.  How will Everton compete with the likes of us, Man City, Man Utd when the best players will be bought and sold in excess of 100mill.   Everton's and other teams window of opportunity to buy quality players is closing fast, by next season we will see the first of the many 100 mill players with wages way beyond 300,000 per week; best of luck Everton if you can compete with that.   The EPL will become, if it hasn't already the same as Spain, Italy, Germany and France, the same teams winning the League and gaining places in Europe with the odd blip i.e. Althetico Madrid upsetting the apple cart.

 

Sorry Davey I strayed from the topic...but these are my thoughts.  I just disagree with Everton.

Davey...first off let me say I do enjoy your posts but I do have a difference of opinion in this case....you may be right in your assessment but the incompetence demonstrated by both Spuds and Bindippers in buying the players they did after letting go their best players in incomprehensible.  The first question is perhaps, Why did those players want to leave Spurs and Liverpool?  The lure of a bigger club and a bigger wage packet no doubt played a part plus the opportunity to play in the CL and be on the world stage; and I am sure the $$$ signs for the Chairman of the selling club also went some way of letting the players go.  

 

While I understand that clubs outside of the supposed 'top 4' all want a part of Champions League Football, the reality is that the % of achieving that these days is very small with the hope that of one of the 'top 4' comes a cropper and even then a team hopes that they become one of the lucky ones to creep in the 4th spot, and even that is a dog fight among probably 4 other teams. Now, although I stated 'tongue in cheek' that Everton are a mediocre side, I suppose I should give them an 'above average' rating within those teams I consider mediocre (teams finishing 6-10)

 

To even give yourself a chance to achieve a top 4 you need a wad of cash, and yes I suppose you can say teams buy a top 4 spot; that unfortunately is the truth across Spain, Italy, France and Germany....the CL has become for all intense and purposes a monopoly...much like F1, Baseball, NBA and any other sport you care to name where money and sponsorship is involved; the bigger the team the more sponsorship money they generate, the more successful they are and the more they buy the best players and that is a fact.  And yes there is the odd blip now and then when a smaller team creeps into the top tier but it is soon corrected when the next season comes around.   I think everyone knows that to compete today in the CL and your domestic league, you need a very good squad consisting of mainly world class international players....how are Everton ever going to attract that sort of talent and even build a squad of about 23-25 players of that calibre.  One or two players with a high market value can bring in 3 - 6 very good international players ...if they want to come, see the prospect of a CL spot and are paid high wages and lets be fair some need their ego stroked too...so what are the prospects of Everton attracting these types of players over Liverpool or Spurs, because even they can't attract the calibre players they need to compete within the CL or challenge for the title domestically when you look at the squads of Chelsea, Man City, Arsenal and loosely Man U who I think at this moment are probably the weakest and most vulnerable of falling outside the top 4.  

 

If Everton sold Stones for 40+ mill I believe they could buy at least 2 high quality players, after all we just paid 20mill+ for Pedro and I am sure if Everton looked hard enough around Europe they could find another 20mill world class / CL experienced player that would love the idea of playing every week in the EPL whereas by going to the likes of a top 4 team they would be in all likelihood be sat on the bench.  By buying quality players at least it would give Everton a hope of reaching the top 4; not that I have sour grapes that it looks like Everton will be keeping Stones, but I do think that it is hindering there ability to buy 2-3 players that will help them domestically in order to reach a top 4 spot, or perhaps they are hoping that by keeping Stones his value will increase...but then the reality is he is of no value if they intend keeping him, he only becomes 'valued' when they decide to sell.  If I was the Chairman of Everton I would sell Stones; there is more than one way to skin a cat here and get a deal done; include quality player(s) + cash or loan deals, Christ Chelsea for one have a ton of good players on loan and quite a few fringe players and so do City and Utd.  If it's a CB that you need to replace then flipping well ask for one in return as part of the deal, perm transfer or otherwise.

 

 IMO Everton are just being stubborn to prove a point that they won't be bullied by one of the top 4, with the hoodwinking of the fans that they are building for the future...what future?  As time goes by the top 4 will get financially stronger, better sponsorship deals, improved TV deals etc, their buying power will be too strong for teams outside of the top 4; the likes of Everton will still be way behind in terms of revenue unless they are bought by a billionaire and will fall further behind in their dream of making it to the CL.  How will Everton compete with the likes of us, Man City, Man Utd when the best players will be bought and sold in excess of 100mill.   Everton's and other teams window of opportunity to buy quality players is closing fast, by next season we will see the first of the many 100 mill players with wages way beyond 300,000 per week; best of luck Everton if you can compete with that.   The EPL will become, if it hasn't already the same as Spain, Italy, Germany and France, the same teams winning the League and gaining places in Europe with the odd blip i.e. Althetico Madrid upsetting the apple cart.

 

Sorry Davey I strayed from the topic...but these are my thoughts.  I just disagree with Everton.

You sir are an eloquent and thought provoking writer. I agree with your post and it seems to me it's a point proving excercise for Everton now. Why cut your nose off to spite your face though? Not sure who they are trying to kid that they are still a 'big team', historically yes, currently no. They are not fooling you or I, no matter how many of their fans crawl out the woodwork and onto this thread to throw a tammy.

Agree with the above but in Evertons defense, and the defense of all like clubs, it really only takes a few young players to push teams forward. Athletico are a good example, most of their first team is either homegrown or bought cheaply. Juventus as well last season. I think I read Neymar and Suarez cost more than their entire first 11.

Southampton had a good shot before they let Shaw go. One good young player goes and its like a domino effect. If Lukaku, Stones and Barkley turn in great seasons I could see them in 4th or 5th.

You are right though, the gap is widening

Okay sure so we could have spent half that fee on Pedro then? I've already explained it -- you all seem more keen on cheap shots than actually reading and considering what I'm saying.

 

Let's say for the sake of argument our first 11 is all 7/10 players. Snide digs about us aside it's not an unreasonable assessment. Some positions are better than others obviously but it's a decent average.

 

8/10+ players almost always want CL.

 

Money is therefore not the limiting factor; "status" (for lack of a better term) is the issue.

 

Pedro was sold for the kind of money almost any Prem team could afford. Certainly the top half. Money was irrelevant.

 

As for this specific deal first off you have to consider the delta. If Stones is good enough for Chelsea to pay 40m+ then he's a Champions League quality player.

 

So we lose a CL player.

 

Can we sign a CL player to replace him? Maybe. Probably not.

 

We're having a nightmare convincing the maniac who owns Dynamo to sell us Yarmolenko. He's already refused to sell to Stoke because they weren't a prestigious enough club. Stoke had the money.

 

Again. Money is not the limiting factor in the Yarmalenko deal. We have the money. We have to convince them to sell him and him to sign and so far it hasn't gone well.

 

I guess you could argue if we had 40m extra we could horrifically overpay for people to get them to come here. Hardly seems like a sustainable strategy destined for success though.

 

 

 

 

Well then here are a 3 points:

 

1. If stones is a CL level player he is not only going to want it, he deserves it stop trying to hold him back, seems unfair to keep him at a self confessed unappealing crap club. 

 

2. A CL level player by himself wont do anything for a sh*t squad especially a young defender, a GK can get you points, a top striker too, but a CB without good defensive structure is not going to do nearly as much for the team as a manager who can arrange 4 average defenders properly.

 

3.How do Athletico get the best strikers in the world, how did Liverpool end up with suarez, you do what you did with Stones from Barnsley and you look for players who are not yet a hot commodity but have top potential, and having said that if stoke can get a barca and a bayern player, you want to have a look at your scouts and ask why they can't do with 40 million what several other mid level clubs can.  

 

And lastly on another note all that yapping about normally this many points would do bla bla bla..when is the last time you finished top 4..pre city and bolton were only 3 points behind you.

 

 When the usual points tally don't cut it, it is because the top 4 are playing so much better than the rest of the clubs making it even harder to get in, so your task is greater, the gap is bigger.  There isn't a top 4 club you could even dream of displacing at the moment, us and city top 2 most would believe, so you're going to better Arsenal who haven't finished out of the top 4 in 20 years  and Man U who have spend 100's of millions on their squad, like I said delusional.. end of story.

 

In fact the last time you got a top four finish, the year before you just missed out on relegation, what happened in that year to change things around...you sold wayne Rooney..goodnight I'm here all week. 

Edited August 25, 201510 yr by Oneclubinlondon

40 million can't I prove Everton?

Cabaye - 13 million

Shaquirk - 12 million

Clyne - 12.5 million

Milner - free

Huth - 3 million

Ayew - free

Total - 40.5 million

That's just top of my head for players whom I feel would improve the Everton squad yet signed for non CL clubs.

Oh, Bertrand - 10 million

Ps, I would also advise that Stones is not a CL quality CB right now, and when he is, he will be gone which kind of renders your whole "CL players are more important than money" point rather moot, no?

Happy we aren't getting him now for that sort of fee, in a few years when his contract is running down we'll be able to get him for cheaper than this even if he does hit his potential ceiling.