4 hours ago, ForeverCarefree said:

Publicly challenging players to do better isn't necessarily a bad thing though. 

It's not like he and the club haven't been patient with Morata, even when he was going through a spell where getting yellow cards seemed more important than getting goals. 

Truth is, Morata has under-performed. He has lost his place in the team to Giroud because Giroud is doing the things he should have been doing. I mean, Giroud has already scored a 1/3 of the total Morata has for us this season and he's barely played. 

So, Conte's publicly challenging him to do more, to be better. If that's pissing off Morata, then good, prove Conte wrong. Until then he's got no right to feel sorry for himself because he only has himself to blame. 

Good leaders at least take a little bit of the blame.  Maybe it's just the headlines being too biased and being from the states I don't see the full story...but it appears Conte is blaming literally everyone else for the failings of the season.  That's not leadership that's moaning...and I wouldn't follow that man in to battle.  

4 minutes ago, TheChelsRVA said:

Good leaders at least take a little bit of the blame.  Maybe it's just the headlines being too biased and being from the states I don't see the full story...but it appears Conte is blaming literally everyone else for the failings of the season.  That's not leadership that's moaning...and I wouldn't follow that man in to battle.  

How many top level managers frequently come out publicly and say "It's my fault"?

Not many, deflection is the name of the game because you have to project an image of unwavering strength and self belief that you are the best man for the job. 

31 minutes ago, TheChelsRVA said:

Good leaders at least take a little bit of the blame.  Maybe it's just the headlines being too biased and being from the states I don't see the full story...but it appears Conte is blaming literally everyone else for the failings of the season.  That's not leadership that's moaning...and I wouldn't follow that man in to battle.  

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2018/apr/13/antonio-conte-chelsea-poor-season

“If we don’t qualify for the Champions League, it means we have to divide the fault, also with the players. We must be ready to share the responsibility. I’m the first to take my responsibility. Then there is the club. Then there is the players. In football, but in every job, it’s right to be in this way. We must be frustrated. Me, my staff, the players and the club, for this season. You start the season with great expectations. Instead we have struggled a lot, for many reasons.”

 

2 minutes ago, theone said:

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2018/apr/13/antonio-conte-chelsea-poor-season

“If we don’t qualify for the Champions League, it means we have to divide the fault, also with the players. We must be ready to share the responsibility. I’m the first to take my responsibility. Then there is the club. Then there is the players. In football, but in every job, it’s right to be in this way. We must be frustrated. Me, my staff, the players and the club, for this season. You start the season with great expectations. Instead we have struggled a lot, for many reasons.”

 

Thank you that is more of what I would like to see.  Again, I am not in England so I don't get to see all the pressers.  All I see are the headlines of him moaning about the board and players.  If that's not a true narrative then more stories/quotes like these should be posted.  

2 minutes ago, TheChelsRVA said:

Thank you that is more of what I would like to see.  Again, I am not in England so I don't get to see all the pressers.  All I see are the headlines of him moaning about the board and players.  If that's not a true narrative then more stories/quotes like these should be posted.  

the one thing i learnt reading sports articles, it has no accountability. always look for actual quotes when reading an article cause the headlines are usually made up or misleading 

4 hours ago, ForeverCarefree said:

Publicly challenging players to do better isn't necessarily a bad thing though. 

It's not like he and the club haven't been patient with Morata, even when he was going through a spell where getting yellow cards seemed more important than getting goals. 

Truth is, Morata has under-performed. He has lost his place in the team to Giroud because Giroud is doing the things he should have been doing. I mean, Giroud has already scored a 1/3 of the total Morata has for us this season and he's barely played. 

So, Conte's publicly challenging him to do more, to be better. If that's pissing off Morata, then good, prove Conte wrong. Until then he's got no right to feel sorry for himself because he only has himself to blame. 

Did you read what I said after that? I literally said it's not a bad thing. I'm making a point that it's unfair to publicly criticise one player and single him out when there are so many players underperforming and get a ridiculous amount of protection. Bakayoko prime example. 

1 minute ago, Slojo said:

Did you read what I said after that? I literally said it's not a bad thing. I'm making a point that it's unfair to publicly criticise one player and single him out when there are so many players underperforming and get a ridiculous amount of protection. Bakayoko prime example. 

Horses for courses and all that. 

He's defended him all season, saying it's new for him to be given the responsibility of playing as first choice and playing as much football as he has. He's shown a lot of patience with him but now, as the season draws to a close he's issued him a public challenge to do better. 

Bakayoko is a difficult one but he clearly took him out of the firing line after the nightmare that was his game away to Watford because he kept him out of and away from the first team. Internally perhaps there was an acknowledgement that he's not adapted well to the league/club and we'll see in the summer what comes of him. For a player whose confidence looks shot to bits public criticism of him wouldn't have helped because he's been at rock bottom since the new year. 

16 minutes ago, ForeverCarefree said:

Horses for courses and all that. 

He's defended him all season, saying it's new for him to be given the responsibility of playing as first choice and playing as much football as he has. He's shown a lot of patience with him but now, as the season draws to a close he's issued him a public challenge to do better. 

Bakayoko is a difficult one but he clearly took him out of the firing line after the nightmare that was his game away to Watford because he kept him out of and away from the first team. Internally perhaps there was an acknowledgement that he's not adapted well to the league/club and we'll see in the summer what comes of him. For a player whose confidence looks shot to bits public criticism of him wouldn't have helped because he's been at rock bottom since the new year. 

2

You mean he got suspended because of his sending off? 

Bakayoko has had 27 Premier League games, Morata has had 29. How can a player who has played at the level Bakayoko has play 27 Premier League games when there are other options? With Morata we only had batman on the bench and Conte wasn't keen on playing him, probably because of his hold up play. 

When Morata was injured Conte was getting on his back about it (which is also a good thing by the way but listen to my point) but to compare that to Bakayoko who has been protected all season and constantly played while out of form is just not fathomable. He got one thing right while getting a lot of others wrong, if you're going to criticise Morata then you need to criticise all the other players who also aren't performing. To blame our woes on goal scoring on Morata is a great way of alienating him when you aren't criticising the other players. 

2 hours ago, theone said:

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2018/apr/13/antonio-conte-chelsea-poor-season

“If we don’t qualify for the Champions League, it means we have to divide the fault, also with the players. We must be ready to share the responsibility. I’m the first to take my responsibility. Then there is the club. Then there is the players. In football, but in every job, it’s right to be in this way. We must be frustrated. Me, my staff, the players and the club, for this season. You start the season with great expectations. Instead we have struggled a lot, for many reasons.”

 

The buck will always stop with the manager and Conte knows that. The finger will always be pointed at him. With these quotes he's trying to get those fingers pointed elsewhere, i.e. at the board and the players. Pathetic quotes in my opinion.

 

Conte is a great manager. He is also an egoist. He wants it to be all about him, when things are going well. The way he carries on, he likes the acclaim, he likes the attention, he likes the recognition. He enjoys coming on the pitch after the game, when we win, hugging all the players, big old slaps on the back, he enjoys going up to the supporters, giving it the fist pumps. He's the leader. He's the main man. Enjoys the limelight. He's not the shy and retiring sort.

 

He likes being liked. We win the title and the players throw him up in the air, just like they did at Juve. Nobody's left in any doubt. He's the man responsible, when we win. When we win he fronts up. He's there for all to see. He loves it. He deserves the credit, he's the manager.

 

When we lose? Different story. Different different story. Suddenly it's all everybody else's fault. Suddenly he doesn't front up. Suddenly he undergoes a personality transplant. He really is shy and retiring after all, who knew?

 

We've learned a lot about Conte this season and none of it good. Yes, he's indisputably a great manager, yes, he has some legitimate complaints, as do most managers, but he also has a fatal personality flaw, and unfortunately we've suffered. The club has suffered, the club that pay him £8m a year to make the best of what he's got. That's his job. Motivating players, managing players, coaching players, getting the best out of them. I'm sick of hearing his complaints. I'm sick of quotes like the one you've posted. I just want him to do his job.

 

This year we might win the FA Cup though I very much doubt it. We might get top 4 though I very much doubt it. Whatever happens, Conte won't get thrown in the air, and that's the bit that grates with him I suspect. He wants everybody to know he's everybody's hero. He wants to be the kingpin. The players no longer hold him in that regard, that much is clear. I think it bugs him. He's been in a sulk about it ever since.

2 hours ago, Davey Baby said:

 

The buck will always stop with the manager and Conte knows that. The finger will always be pointed at him. With these quotes he's trying to get those fingers pointed elsewhere, i.e. at the board and the players. Pathetic quotes in my opinion.

 

Conte is a great manager. He is also an egoist. He wants it to be all about him, when things are going well. The way he carries on, he likes the acclaim, he likes the attention, he likes the recognition. He enjoys coming on the pitch after the game, when we win, hugging all the players, big old slaps on the back, he enjoys going up to the supporters, giving it the fist pumps. He's the leader. He's the main man. Enjoys the limelight. He's not the shy and retiring sort.

 

He likes being liked. We win the title and the players throw him up in the air, just like they did at Juve. Nobody's left in any doubt. He's the man responsible, when we win. When we win he fronts up. He's there for all to see. He loves it. He deserves the credit, he's the manager.

 

When we lose? Different story. Different different story. Suddenly it's all everybody else's fault. Suddenly he doesn't front up. Suddenly he undergoes a personality transplant. He really is shy and retiring after all, who knew?

 

We've learned a lot about Conte this season and none of it good. Yes, he's indisputably a great manager, yes, he has some legitimate complaints, as do most managers, but he also has a fatal personality flaw, and unfortunately we've suffered. The club has suffered, the club that pay him £8m a year to make the best of what he's got. That's his job. Motivating players, managing players, coaching players, getting the best out of them. I'm sick of hearing his complaints. I'm sick of quotes like the one you've posted. I just want him to do his job.

 

This year we might win the FA Cup though I very much doubt it. We might get top 4 though I very much doubt it. Whatever happens, Conte won't get thrown in the air, and that's the bit that grates with him I suspect. He wants everybody to know he's everybody's hero. He wants to be the kingpin. The players no longer hold him in that regard, that much is clear. I think it bugs him. He's been in a sulk about it ever since.

every leader is egoist to a certain extent(you have to believe in yourself to make others believe in you), go look Pep's or Jose or even SAF interview after they loose and tell me they are any different. as for moaning so you would rather have someone who just stands there and give diplomatic answers and then gets fired while no one else takes the blame

he said earlier  that he had no input and incoming and outgoings of the team he just gives his opinion , the club and Manager needs to have a similar vision of what they are trying to achieve. this is year the squad is weaker than last year with more games so you have to take fatigue into account too why we are struggling.

put yourself in his shoes and you are in charge of a project but you don't get to decide what people you work with and then the project starts to fall apart what would you do?

As for the players there is only that much you can motivate, these are the same players that finished 10th after winning the league. our new signings have not been that great  this year. last year many said that Matic is the weakest link in the team and this year we are crying for someone like him. Conte's midfield requires hard working players like Vidal, Nainggolan  that's why we signed Bakayoko and i didn't work out as planned. i don't know where Barkley fits and why we signed given we have Loftus. last year he didn't play Fabregas in the midfield of 2 this year he has no option

its a reoccurring problem, what players did Jose get after winning the league, tell me what is he supposed to do with this 

https://www.givemesport.com/1267822-jose-mourinhos-eight-tragic-signings-at-chelsea-in-summer-2015-where-are-they-now

in today's world Players don't have anything to loose, Manager gets fired what do players get. every manager have his faults, there is no thing as perfect manager. 

there were few things i didn't like either like what he said after the City game which might be a shot at the board but it was very demoralizing for the players or i don't know what is going on with Drinkwater 

if we get a new manager who knows what happens then may the players will loose the motivation after playing under him too, what will you do then its a double edged sword 

Edited April 30, 20188 yr by theone

^ I would say Fergie was completely different to the manager I described in my previous post. Fergie didn't try to steal the limelight from the players, but after a loss, he was quite happy to become the story, so long as it wasn't his players. 

11 minutes ago, Davey Baby said:

^ I would say Fergie was completely different to the manager I described in my previous post. Fergie didn't try to steal the limelight from the players, but after a loss, he was quite happy to become the story, so long as it wasn't his players. 

 Fergie had complete control of everything, he benched Berbetov for most of the season after him being their top scorer the previous season 

https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/manchester-united-news-alex-ferguson-11918367

In his last season, Fergie's squad was substandard. Other clubs had far superior squads. Nobody could believe the paucity of the squad Moyes inherited.

 

Instead of moaning however, or feeling sorry for himself, Fergie got on with his job, of coaxing the best out of the players he had, and they won the title at a canter.

5 hours ago, Davey Baby said:

 

The buck will always stop with the manager and Conte knows that. The finger will always be pointed at him. With these quotes he's trying to get those fingers pointed elsewhere, i.e. at the board and the players. Pathetic quotes in my opinion.

 

Conte is a great manager. He is also an egoist. He wants it to be all about him, when things are going well. The way he carries on, he likes the acclaim, he likes the attention, he likes the recognition. He enjoys coming on the pitch after the game, when we win, hugging all the players, big old slaps on the back, he enjoys going up to the supporters, giving it the fist pumps. He's the leader. He's the main man. Enjoys the limelight. He's not the shy and retiring sort.

 

He likes being liked. We win the title and the players throw him up in the air, just like they did at Juve. Nobody's left in any doubt. He's the man responsible, when we win. When we win he fronts up. He's there for all to see. He loves it. He deserves the credit, he's the manager.

 

When we lose? Different story. Different different story. Suddenly it's all everybody else's fault. Suddenly he doesn't front up. Suddenly he undergoes a personality transplant. He really is shy and retiring after all, who knew?

 

We've learned a lot about Conte this season and none of it good. Yes, he's indisputably a great manager, yes, he has some legitimate complaints, as do most managers, but he also has a fatal personality flaw, and unfortunately we've suffered. The club has suffered, the club that pay him £8m a year to make the best of what he's got. That's his job. Motivating players, managing players, coaching players, getting the best out of them. I'm sick of hearing his complaints. I'm sick of quotes like the one you've posted. I just want him to do his job.

 

This year we might win the FA Cup though I very much doubt it. We might get top 4 though I very much doubt it. Whatever happens, Conte won't get thrown in the air, and that's the bit that grates with him I suspect. He wants everybody to know he's everybody's hero. He wants to be the kingpin. The players no longer hold him in that regard, that much is clear. I think it bugs him. He's been in a sulk about it ever since.

Great post Davey, agree with all you said there

16 minutes ago, Davey Baby said:

In his last season, Fergie's squad was substandard. Other clubs had far superior squads. Nobody could believe the paucity of the squad Moyes inherited.

 

Instead of moaning however, or feeling sorry for himself, Fergie got on with his job, of coaxing the best out of the players he had, and they won the title at a canter.

Love him or loathe him, fergie was a genius at his job.

43 minutes ago, Davey Baby said:

In his last season, Fergie's squad was substandard. Other clubs had far superior squads. Nobody could believe the paucity of the squad Moyes inherited.

 

Instead of moaning however, or feeling sorry for himself, Fergie got on with his job, of coaxing the best out of the players he had, and they won the title at a canter.

you keep changing topics

you mean in his 27th season where he had control of everything and won the league, i am surprised too he didn't moan

not saying Conte has earned complete control but he deserves to be heard after winning the league 

fergie sold Bekham at his peak (not criticizing but how would have fans taken to the news during that time ,this could have easily backfired ) imagine Conte doing that with Hazard (he hasn't earned the right to do so yet)

Fergie was a exception rather than a norm how many managers have been successfully as him. 

Wenger doesn't moan as well even after they selling their best players year after year.

it takes time, a guy not happy with the squad or how is treated by the management is moaning cause he will fired

 its part of his demeanor he is an explosive character,  just look what he did at Juventus  

again i am not saying Conte is the best manager ever or anything, i am saying we keep firing managers over and over and keep repeating the cycle. there is something more that needs fixing i want Conte to stay  cause he has shown he can win the league if anyone else comes and this happens again what will you do 

the club needs to find a manager who shares the same vision as the club 

 

Edited April 30, 20188 yr by theone

I’m tired of Conte. Our season isn’t absolutely horrid, not like the Mourinho season. 

But I’m tired of his negativity, his style of football, encouraging teams to attack us instead of taking control, moaning about signings, falling out with players like Costa, and probably David Luiz, persisting with Bakayoko when Drinkwater would have been a much safer option, etc etc.

I’m ready for a change, I’m sick of all the negativity that surrounds the club.

17 hours ago, Slojo said:

You mean he got suspended because of his sending off? 

Bakayoko has had 27 Premier League games, Morata has had 29. How can a player who has played at the level Bakayoko has play 27 Premier League games when there are other options? With Morata we only had batman on the bench and Conte wasn't keen on playing him, probably because of his hold up play. 

When Morata was injured Conte was getting on his back about it (which is also a good thing by the way but listen to my point) but to compare that to Bakayoko who has been protected all season and constantly played while out of form is just not fathomable. He got one thing right while getting a lot of others wrong, if you're going to criticise Morata then you need to criticise all the other players who also aren't performing. To blame our woes on goal scoring on Morata is a great way of alienating him when you aren't criticising the other players. 

Even after Bakayoko's suspension had ended Conte was managing his playing time. 

He wasn't involved in either of the Barcelona Champions League games, didn't make the bench against Manchester City. 

His first game back was a two minute appearance coming off of the bench against Palace. Was given only 45 minutes in our FA Cup match against Leicester, hooked at half time for Fabregas. 

Then wasn't picked for our games or bought off the bench against Spurs, West Ham and Southampton. 

Made his first league start following his suspension against Watford against Burnley which is over two months later. 

The thing with the Conte top goal scorer criticism is that it wasn't specifically aimed at Morata. He's saying when your top scorer in your team only has 12 goals it's difficult to finish inside the top four. It's a criticism of the team as a whole for not scoring enough. He's saying our top goal scorer is barely in double figures, it's not enough. Everyone needs to have done more to rectify that, the team as a collective is responsible for that failing. 

11 minutes ago, ForeverCarefree said:

The thing with the Conte top goal scorer criticism is that it wasn't specifically aimed at Morata. He's saying when your top scorer in your team only has 12 goals it's difficult to finish inside the top four. It's a criticism of the team as a whole for not scoring enough. He's saying our top goal scorer is barely in double figures, it's not enough. Everyone needs to have done more to rectify that, the team as a collective is responsible for that failing. 

And he's  right, in this :)  Fine analysis, mate

33 minutes ago, ForeverCarefree said:

Even after Bakayoko's suspension had ended Conte was managing his playing time. 

He wasn't involved in either of the Barcelona Champions League games, didn't make the bench against Manchester City. 

His first game back was a two minute appearance coming off of the bench against Palace. Was given only 45 minutes in our FA Cup match against Leicester, hooked at half time for Fabregas. 

Then wasn't picked for our games or bought off the bench against Spurs, West Ham and Southampton. 

Made his first league start following his suspension against Watford against Burnley which is over two months later. 

The thing with the Conte top goal scorer criticism is that it wasn't specifically aimed at Morata. He's saying when your top scorer in your team only has 12 goals it's difficult to finish inside the top four. It's a criticism of the team as a whole for not scoring enough. He's saying our top goal scorer is barely in double figures, it's not enough. Everyone needs to have done more to rectify that, the team as a collective is responsible for that failing. 

Isn’t that down to how he sets up the team to play? Take the Swansea game for example, he had Fabregas creating for Hazard & Giroud. Anything you get out of anyone else in form of an assist/goal is a bonus. Alonso & Moses have 2 assists each, and they are both responsible for providing width in his preferred formation. I just don’t think the 3-5-2/3-4-3 formation works. It was adopted by most teams at the beginning of the season, but they have all dropped it because it is heavily flawed.

Conte has stuck us with 2 target men when most teams are moving away from that style of football. The PL top scorers list only has Lukaku as a target man in the top 10. Of the top 6, we have scored the least number of goals and you could argue that Arsenal would have scored more if Lacazette hadn’t been injured for a long period of time. Spurs also had Kane out for a period of time & had Llorente (another target man wanted by Conte) as their other option. Sorry but IMO the lack of goals is reflective of the systemic flaws in his 3-5-2/3-4-3 formations.

13 minutes ago, ducavis said:

Isn’t that down to how he sets up the team to play? Take the Swansea game for example, he had Fabregas creating for Hazard & Giroud. Anything you get out of anyone else in form of an assist/goal is a bonus. Alonso & Moses have 2 assists each, and they are both responsible for providing width in his preferred formation. I just don’t think the 3-5-2/3-4-3 formation works. It was adopted by most teams at the beginning of the season, but they have all dropped it because it is heavily flawed.

Conte has stuck us with 2 target men when most teams are moving away from that style of football. The PL top scorers list only has Lukaku as a target man in the top 10. Of the top 6, we have scored the least number of goals and you could argue that Arsenal would have scored more if Lacazette hadn’t been injured for a long period of time. Spurs also had Kane out for a period of time & had Llorente (another target man wanted by Conte) as their other option. Sorry but IMO the lack of goals is reflective of the systemic flaws in his 3-5-2/3-4-3 formations.

I think the system does lean heavily on the front 2/3 scoring the lions share of goals but then in fairness, if you look Liverpool, Salah has literally had a had in more than half of the goals they have scored this season. 

I don't think there is anything wrong with 3-4-3 or 3-5-2 but I don't think certain players contribute enough in our team. 

I would expect the wing-backs to be involved in at least 10 goals each, either scoring or assisting. They provide the width, should be putting crosses in but also making runs into the back post to create more attacking options. 

I'm personally of the opinion that Hazard doesn't score enough goals. He's more than capable of scoring 20 league goals in season and it's a failing on his part that he doesn't force the issue more. He should be taking on more shots and carrying that burden. 

Morata has had a disappointing season and fallen well short of scoring the number of goals needed in our team. 

I think we lack goals from the midfield. Fabregas is more than capable of scoring 10 goals in a season but too often drops deep to be a creative outlet rather then getting into postions where he can score. His first instinct is to look for an assist rather than to shoot. 

We should probably have scored at least another 10 goals this season in the league, minimum. I do think having a lack of goal scorers is something we need to address come the end of the season. 

Really hard to sympathise with Conte here. Did not we have a good natural goal scorer who got a massive 353 minutes in half a season with the club? 

Ain't that google a wonderful thing?

So now people have a problem with posters posting facts 

How simple life would be just blindly following a person in the name of "loyalty". More like a sheep/idiot than a sensible thinking person.

8 minutes ago, didierforever said:

So now people have a problem with posters posting facts 

How simple life would be just blindly following a person in the name of "loyalty". More like a sheep/idiot than a sensible thinking person.

Just out of interest, who do you want appointed to replace Conte?