2 hours ago, Ernie_blue said:

I can't be bothered to keep going backwards and forwards over something so obvious, 3 defenders vs 1 is more defensive than 2 defenders against 1, you simply don't need 3. Its that obvious when Conte changes to a back 4 when we are losing. Chelsea don't even have the defenders to play 3 at the back without Luiz.

The manager isn't allowed to make mistakes, I've lost count of how many. Regarding playing with a back 4, posters have been talking about it all season, its not going to happen anyway.

A back 4 is traditionally not 2 defenders against 1 though is it. That's my point, the formation does not determine the system. We can go on and on, just agree to disagree at this point, for me the back 3 isn't the problem and hasn't been, I actually like the 3 at the back system. 

And I actually agree with that, we don't have the players to play 3 at the back, Azpi can adapt to anything, Rudiger can also play 3 at the back, but we lack that central ball playing defender. Luiz has gone missing all season and when he has played he has been terrible, we just can't play it out from the back anymore like we did last season.

And a manager is definitely allowed to make mistakes, what you're saying is completely subjective, you don't know if the back 3 is a mistake or not. I don't think Conte made a bright decision at all and I seriously doubt his passion his for the club when he's dropping the likes of Giroud and Hazard in such an important game. But to say he's gotten so many things wrong is going overboard, people are just being overly negative against a man who wrapped up the title in his first season. I literally saw somebody 2 pages ago try to downplay the title win last season, apparently, Conte's title win was because Spurs bottled it. 

2 hours ago, Slojo said:

So if Sarri finishes outside top 4 in his first season at Chelsea, do you think people on here will accept that? 

Conte has come here and got us into 2 FA cup finals and won the league, and he's getting called all names under the sun by members on this forum in the matchday thread. I highly doubt people will have the patience with any manager who finishes outside of the top 4. 

 

People have soured on Conte because he doesn't want to be at Chelsea and has essentially ad.it ted he doesn't want to be here. All the while slagging off everybody to do with the club. It puts fans off him when he does that. Plus the football has been awful and clueless for most of the season. 

2 hours ago, Slojo said:

A back 4 is traditionally not 2 defenders against 1 though is it. That's my point, the formation does not determine the system. We can go on and on, just agree to disagree at this point, for me the back 3 isn't the problem and hasn't been, I actually like the 3 at the back system. 

And I actually agree with that, we don't have the players to play 3 at the back, Azpi can adapt to anything, Rudiger can also play 3 at the back, but we lack that central ball playing defender. Luiz has gone missing all season and when he has played he has been terrible, we just can't play it out from the back anymore like we did last season.

And a manager is definitely allowed to make mistakes, what you're saying is completely subjective, you don't know if the back 3 is a mistake or not. I don't think Conte made a bright decision at all and I seriously doubt his passion his for the club when he's dropping the likes of Giroud and Hazard in such an important game. But to say he's gotten so many things wrong is going overboard, people are just being overly negative against a man who wrapped up the title in his first season. I literally saw somebody 2 pages ago try to downplay the title win last season, apparently, Conte's title win was because Spurs bottled it. 

I kind of understand the point Ernie_Blue was trying to make. Almost all teams play 1 Forward nowadays, so you have your 2 CBs battling with 1 forward. The 3-5-2 formation was meant to counter the 4-4-2 when it was very popular. So you have a spare CB in defence against 2 forwards. 

Agree that Bayern adopted it during Pep’s tenure but we need to remember it was Martinez (a world class DM) he had in the middle of the 3 CBS bringing out the ball from defence & spraying passes. This is very easy to do when you have Alba & Lahm; 2 world class players as WBs. Also remember the Bundesliga was a cake walk but they were always caught short in Europe when one of his defenders were out. Boateng/Martinez & Alba were often injured. 

In a 3-5-2, your 2 WBs are meant to be the two fittest players on your team because they need to get up & down the pitch often. That is why Alonso usually looks gassed around the hour mark. Yes it worked brilliantly last year because it was foreign in the PL, and almost every other team tried adopting it this season but they have almost all dropped it. Personally I am not a fan because I feel you are sacrificing  a personnel in defence; a CB (since all teams play with one on top) at the expense of one play further up the pitch. I also feel unless you have 2 world class & decent backup fullbacks, you can’t compete effectively in 4 competitions.

6 hours ago, Slojo said:

A formation doesn't fully determine if you're an attacking team or a defensive team.

Pep Guardiola played 3 at the back with Bayern Munich most games, Barcelona often played 3 at the back under Enrique or the manager before him I can't remember. 

This is a really stupid argument. 

You just said defensive teams don't play a back three then in your next post said a formation doesn't determine your play style? Make your mind up. 

Most of those teams didn't play primarily a back three either.

6 hours ago, Slojo said:

The back 3 wasn't the issue... We've played 3 at the back all season, you're complaining about so many changes yet you expect Conte to go to a back 4? That doesn't make any sense.

Obviously, I haven't played Football Manager as much as you have so I lack the great knowledge, captain hindsight strikes again. 

How many games this season did we know the opposition was going to park the bus though. A manager should be able to see a situation and adapt. Conte can'tdo that.

I thought you were one of the okay ones on this forum but you've just proved you're a nob like DKW and Yorkey. Got nothing to say so try to counter me or others by claiming we get our knowledge from football manager/sky/fifa etc. 

 

8 minutes ago, RIP Mourinho said:

You just said defensive teams don't play a back three then in your next post said a formation doesn't determine your play style? Make your mind up. 

Most of those teams didn't play primarily a back three either.

Ahh clutching straws are we?

"It completely depends on the system, defensive teams don't play with 3 at the back they play with 4, your wingbacks can play much further in a formation with 3 at the back. "

Full quote here, obviously I should have worded it better but why on earth would I say Conte is a defensive coach then go on to say the back 3 can't be a defensive lineup? That would be a whopping contradiction in itself, at least give me the benefit of the doubt despite my bad wording. However, you're actually claiming a back 3 is a defensive lineup, when that's not necessarily true at all, plenty of attacking oriented teams have played with 3 at the back, Roberto Martinez used to play that way all the time with Wigan & Everton, they used to concede a f**k load of goals but score a hefty amount. 

9 minutes ago, RIP Mourinho said:

How many games this season did we know the opposition was going to park the bus though. A manager should be able to see a situation and adapt. Conte can'tdo that.

I thought you were one of the okay ones on this forum but you've just proved you're a nob like DKW and Yorkey. Got nothing to say so try to counter me or others by claiming we get our knowledge from football manager/sky/fifa etc. 

 

Mate, I've got absolutely no issues with you but you came across very condescending on the last page of our discussion. So I gave you some of it back, and I've still offered a reasonable argument I don't see how that translates to me to having nothing to say.

The issue I have here is that once you make up your mind on something it doesn't change, you were saying Emerson is our best player of the season when he barely even played one game of football. Even if that turns out to be right (because you might be) that's not the type of mentality you respect, you judge by what you see. Now with Conte, it's constantly negatives, negatives, negatives. I haven't picked a side, I'm playing devil's advocate but I don't see how he got so many things wrong except for not playing two of our key players. 

Just now you're bringing up the 3 at the back? Come on.... Were you saying "please don't play 3 at the back, please don't play 3 at the back" with your fingers crossed before the match kicked off?

Mistakes were made yesterday, and Conte will be off in the summer.

That said, the levels some in here are going to downplay the man's very significant achievements last year and blame every ill on him is very poor in my view. 

I think I've now observed 5 permanent manager sackings on this board and the commentary around this one is particularly ungrateful, perhaps even more so than it was around the time of Carlo's sacking, which is now universally regarded as a mistake. 

I can see next season playing out in a similar way. We fire a manager who made mistakes but did a good job overall, hire someone vastly less qualified and end up throwing him out the door as well. 

Big summer for the club. Let's hope we don't have another AVB appointment at the end of it. 

 

52 minutes ago, Slojo said:

Mate, I've got absolutely no issues with you but you came across very condescending on the last page of our discussion. So I gave you some of it back, and I've still offered a reasonable argument I don't see how that translates to me to having nothing to say.

The issue I have here is that once you make up your mind on something it doesn't change, you were saying Emerson is our best player of the season when he barely even played one game of football. Even if that turns out to be right (because you might be) that's not the type of mentality you respect, you judge by what you see. Now with Conte, it's constantly negatives, negatives, negatives. I haven't picked a side, I'm playing devil's advocate but I don't see how he got so many things wrong except for not playing two of our key players. 

Just now you're bringing up the 3 at the back? Come on.... Were you saying "please don't play 3 at the back, please don't play 3 at the back" with your fingers crossed before the match kicked off?

@Slojo I think you should be flattered that he has put you in the same category as @yorkleyblue and @dkw!  I would be honoured to be on the same bench as those two!

@Davey Baby has it nailed on.

With just one further match to go before a weeks rest before the FA Cup final why is there a need to rest your best players?

The other factor being we just could not afford to slip up in this match if we are serious about challenging for the top four. They had just held out against City!

Either incompetent and a complete egoist or playing mind games with the board, IMO.

Edited May 10, 20188 yr by strider6004

58 minutes ago, moi said:

@Slojo I think you should be flattered that he has put you in the same category as @yorkleyblue and @dkw!  I would be honoured to be on the same bench as those two!

Very true, love big Kev and DKW 

12 hours ago, Argo said:

Who has even suggested he would win the league in his first season? I think most have accepted it's unlikely with the combination of Pep bang in his prime and the change of style will need a bit of time.

Hyperboles and rants. 

9 hours ago, Slojo said:

Mate, I've got absolutely no issues with you but you came across very condescending on the last page of our discussion. So I gave you some of it back, and I've still offered a reasonable argument I don't see how that translates to me to having nothing to say.

The issue I have here is that once you make up your mind on something it doesn't change, you were saying Emerson is our best player of the season when he barely even played one game of football. Even if that turns out to be right (because you might be) that's not the type of mentality you respect, you judge by what you see. Now with Conte, it's constantly negatives, negatives, negatives. I haven't picked a side, I'm playing devil's advocate but I don't see how he got so many things wrong except for not playing two of our key players. 

Just now you're bringing up the 3 at the back? Come on.... Were you saying "please don't play 3 at the back, please don't play 3 at the back" with your fingers crossed before the match kicked off?

I've never said Emerson is our best player. I've said he was the best bit of business we've done in the last year based on his price and performance levels from Roma. When he came into the squad he showed how good he can be. 

As for the back 3, i've said on here quite a few times, usually when predicting my preferred line up in a match day thread, that id quite like us to go to a back 4 with Dave and Emerson as the full backs.

9 hours ago, Spiller86 said:

Mistakes were made yesterday, and Conte will be off in the summer.

That said, the levels some in here are going to downplay the man's very significant achievements last year and blame every ill on him is very poor in my view. 

I think I've now observed 5 permanent manager sackings on this board and the commentary around this one is particularly ungrateful, perhaps even more so than it was around the time of Carlo's sacking, which is now universally regarded as a mistake. 

I can see next season playing out in a similar way. We fire a manager who made mistakes but did a good job overall, hire someone vastly less qualified and end up throwing him out the door as well. 

Big summer for the club. Let's hope we don't have another AVB appointment at the end of it. 

 

I think that is because no other manager speaks about Chelsea and shows such little gratitude for the position he is in. 

14 hours ago, Slojo said:

So if Sarri finishes outside top 4 in his first season at Chelsea, do you think people on here will accept that? 

Conte has come here and got us into 2 FA cup finals and won the league, and he's getting called all names under the sun by members on this forum in the matchday thread. I highly doubt people will have the patience with any manager who finishes outside of the top 4. 

 

Many supporters were willing to stand by AVB despite him showing no signs of progress and an almost certain finish outside the top 4 . Ofcourse you will get the occasional nutjob who wants him sacked just because but in general im certain most fans will be fine if they see genuine progress, people wanting Conte gone runs deeper than mere results.

Edited May 11, 20188 yr by Argo

12 hours ago, Total-Football said:

People have soured on Conte because he doesn't want to be at Chelsea and has essentially ad.it ted he doesn't want to be here. All the while slagging off everybody to do with the club. It puts fans off him when he does that. Plus the football has been awful and clueless for most of the season. 

Football has been awful & clueless for most of the season? That's quite an exaggeration.

And at least Conte has never slagged off us supporters like some of his predecessors (and one in particular).

 

29 minutes ago, Argo said:

Many supporters were willing to stand by AVB despite him showing no signs of progress and an almost certain finish outside the top 4 . Ofcourse you will get the occasional nutjob who wants him sacked just because but in general im certain most fans will be fine if they see genuine progress, people wanting Conte gone runs deeper than mere results.

I don't think I saw one supporter who wanted AVB to stay. 

1 hour ago, Argo said:

Many supporters were willing to stand by AVB despite him showing no signs of progress and an almost certain finish outside the top 4 . Ofcourse you will get the occasional nutjob who wants him sacked just because but in general im certain most fans will be fine if they see genuine progress, people wanting Conte gone runs deeper than mere results.

And odd nutjobs who want him sacked because of his hair, or lack of it. 

Perhaps that's because they are so proud of their own hair, they use it as an avatar!

51 minutes ago, Nibs said:

Football has been awful & clueless for most of the season? That's quite an exaggeration.

And at least Conte has never slagged off us supporters like some of his predecessors (and one in particular).

 

Yes. We were good from September to november/december. We were absolutely terrible for a lot of 2018 and are still playing some mind numbing football that looks devoid of ideas bar give it to Hazard. Compare to last season and it's like night and day. 

 

That would be a good point if was advocating hiring those managers. I didn't want them at the club either (Like most of the fans didn't at the time).

1 hour ago, RIP Mourinho said:

I've never said Emerson is our best player. I've said he was the best bit of business we've done in the last year based on his price and performance levels from Roma. When he came into the squad he showed how good he can be. 

As for the back 3, i've said on here quite a few times, usually when predicting my preferred line up in a match day thread, that id quite like us to go to a back 4 with Dave and Emerson as the full backs.

You did in the "rate our transfers" thread and you had Emerson highest who barely even played one game. What levels from Roma? He was injured all season before he came, last season he looked good but he was still massively unproven. He hasn't shown how good he is yet, he needs more time to be consistent, this is what I'm saying, you judge as if you know the answer because you like him as a player, complete fanboyism. He hasn't played enough games yet to solidify if he's a great LWB, he definitely looks the real deal so far. 

I didn't see you screaming for Conte to start with a back 4 before the game. 

5 minutes ago, Slojo said:

You did in the "rate our transfers" thread and you had Emerson highest who barely even played one game. What levels from Roma? He was injured all season before he came, last season he looked good but he was still massively unproven. He hasn't shown how good he is yet, he needs more time to be consistent, this is what I'm saying, you judge as if you know the answer because you like him as a player, complete fanboyism. He hasn't played enough games yet to solidify if he's a great LWB, he definitely looks the real deal so far. 

I didn't see you screaming for Conte to start with a back 4 before the game. 

I was rating the transfer, not his performances. I watched him a lot in his break out season at Roma and he was brilliant before the injury. Arguably as good as Alex Sandro in that league, the fact Juve wanted him as his replacement said a lot. Add that to the fact we got him for £20m in this market and its a brilliant bit of business by the club finally buying someone before their price sky rockets. Hence why i rated it highly on 'rate our transfers'. 

What's the point in screaming for something that will never ever happen with Conte. Would be like when i wanted Batshuayi to be given game time, the bloke ain't going to do it so what's the point.

Easy to blame strikers for not scoring goals, but yesterday we simply didn't create enough chances for the strikers, and I have seen it at least a dozen games this season. It's up to the manager to work out a system that gives the attackers the best chances to score, and Conte has been failing all season. We aren't going to get one of those top 5 or even 10 strikers in the world next season, so whoever comes still needs the manager to figure out a system to maximize goals.

It’s a bit much calling Conte names like c*** etc but I don’t think anyone should be getting sh*t for wanting him gone and disliking the guy. He’s done nothing but throw his toys out of the pram this season, he’s taken no responsibility for what he’s done and he’s done some of the stupidest decisions I’ve ever seen. It’s hard to not think there’s intent in what he’s done sometimes. 

Ive only ever really lived three coaches at Chelsea Guilit, Vialli and Mourinho. They were special, others like Ranieri, Hiddink and Ancelotti I really liked and I even thought Scolari was a nice bloke. But Conte I just find the most miserable man ever. Last season he only started to smile when we did well. No I’m not saying that we should expect him to smile but at times he hasn’t even shown any passion. Last season when we won the league two games stood out to me Spurs away and the FA cup final. It felt like he had no plan B and I think with a manager like that it always goes the same way. I appreciate he led us to the league title last season but I’ve never truly warmed to him and for me I’ll be glad to see the back of him.

27 minutes ago, Bobbywoodhogan said:

It’s a bit much calling Conte names like c*** etc but I don’t think anyone should be getting sh*t for wanting him gone and disliking the guy.

I don't think anyone can disagree with posters who have valid reasons for wanting him out, not least his sometimes weird choices for teams and substitutions.  My main complaint is with silly little internet fans who regularly abuse the manager as a "bald c**t" and "wig wearing c**t". Someone else has commented elsewhere that armchair/internet fans have an equally valid viewpoint as regular match-goers.   That's a point of view. I don't necessarily agree, but there are hundreds of sensible posters in here who live abroad and would never ever get to the Bridge, but who I consider to be true fans and very knowledgeable. 

Then there are a very small group of know-it-all, snide, self-entitled internet fans, who get all their information from Sky, BT and google, who have strong and inflexible "opinions" about everything and who generate arguments with lots of other posters, monotonously repeating the same old  google results, insulting the manager for his appearance, not his abilities, and generally falling out with people.  These are all new (post abramovich) "fans", who have chosen Chelsea, probably because we have been successful, but I do not believe are true fans.   True fans, in my opinion,  do not boast about how much they won betting against Chelsea.  Ever.   That's my view, anyway.

20 hours ago, Davey Baby said:

 

It's not rational thinking though Nibs, not in my opinion. Yes Morata was fresher, we all get that. All the players that came in were fresher, we all get that, but you play your best team. Liverpool was on Sunday at 4.30, this was a Wednesday night game, the players had time to recover, besides, Giroud has hardly played any games this season, it's not like he's had a long, gruelling campaign.

 

Look at the players that came in. Caballero, Christensen, Zappacosta, Pedro, Morata. Look at those five players, seriously. That's almost half our team. They were out of the side for a reason, because they were playing poorly, simple as. He brought them all in together, at the expense of players that were doing the business, playing well and winning games. Without Pedro, Zappacosta, Christensen and Morata we were winning games, with them we were losing games, that's why they were out. 

 

Hazard is our talisman, our game-breaker, our magic man. Against a packed defence, his omission is inexplicable. People can say we dominated the game. It's irrelevant. You have to break them down.

 

Another thing, you don't have to be at your absolutest freshest for this game. You don't have to run a million miles. This is Huddersfield. At home. Desperate for a point. You need players that can hurt them.

 

Ironically, the one player who was playing well and helping us keep clean sheets and win games was Palmieri. If anyone deserved to be brought back in, it was him. He could have helped us last night, IMO, because he'd shown he can get round a defence, get to the byline and cause problems, and that's what we needed. I understand that Alonso kept his place, I'm just saying that the fact that five players who were playing poorly came back and not him is laughable. Well it would be if it wasn't so tragic.

 

It's a long season. It lasts 9 months. A lot happens along the way. You work hard and you work together for a common cause. That cause being top 4, if you can't win the title. We came to the end. We needed to win. We absolutely had to win.

 

You absolutely have to play your best team.

Perhaps he was making sure his cup final lineup had a competitive game together before the end of the season