Callum Hudson-Odoi

[WhiteWall]

2 minutes ago, EdinburghBlue said:

He’s contracted through 2024. He is absolutely not going to be bought cheaply. He was literally live on Sky Sports the other day saying he’s happy to stay at Everton for another season to see what Ancelotti can do.

but if offers came in he and Ancelotti would discuss it. Which is standard agent posturing. Anyway the point wasnt really about Richarlison, I just threw that out there.  The point I was making is that CHO should be at least a full season away from our team and needs to go to a decent team in a physical league. I'm not convinced at the moment that he has the tools to make it currently 

[EdinburghBlue]

Just now, WhiteWall said:

but if offers came in he and Ancelotti would discuss it. Which is standard agent posturing. Anyway the point wasnt really about Richarlison, I just threw that out there.  The point I was making is that CHO should be at least a full season away from our team and needs to go to a decent team in a physical league. I'm not convinced at the moment that he has the tools to make it currently 

I would agree, I think a loan move would be good for him. He needs a good season playing regularly or his development is going to be stunted. IF we go after an Onana or Tagliafeco, CHO on loan could be a good sweeter. Ajax is a brilliant destination for developing players, especially attacking players. They also play a similar style to us on the front foot. I would like him to be here with the team but if we have Pulisic and Ziyech and Willian signs, I can’t help but feel he’ll be 4th choice which is not good for the development of a young player.

[ducavis]

7 hours ago, WhiteWall said:

in doing what. It cannot be on shots, tackles won, goals. What is it that he has been so good at. Mind you I do remember a time when Zappacosta was our most prolific goalscorer ever if we are going on goals per shots or goals per min.

1 goals & 5 assists in the league in 852mins in the league is a very good return, but I guess he doesn’t press enough.

[ducavis]

7 hours ago, the special one said:

There's a very speculative rumour in the Manchester Evening News that United may be interested.

I can actually see it if the Sancho deal doesn’t go through; will fit in nicely with what Solsjaeker is trying to do. Crazy thing is we will probably reject it, & keep giving him 15mins.

7 hours ago, EdinburghBlue said:

Gets boring after a while, people criticise Willian’s end product but in terms of tracking back - you’ll not find a better winger in the world. I assume everyone was happy with Jose selling Mata as well because after all, he didn’t track back well enough. Fortunately we had Oscar, another workhorse who looked world class for a game or two, then bang average for 7-8 then back to world class again. But, he sure did track back well.

Personally, I couldn’t give a sh*t if they don’t track back if they provide at the top end of the pitch. Our defence and midfield when playing 4-3-3 should be capable of handling most teams attacks in this league. Providing the wingers are contributing to the teams press, I don’t see the issue. I thought we were looking to move away from our wingers playing like full backs. I don’t want Callum or Pulisic or Ziyech needing to make tackles in our own box. That’s not what they’re playing for.

Well said when you consider most of these midfielders don’t contribute to our game in the final 3rd. 

[WhiteWall]

39 minutes ago, ducavis said:

1 goals & 5 assists in the league in 852mins in the league is a very good return, but I guess he doesn’t press enough.

so that's a 1 in 10 game ratio then

[Gol15]

7 hours ago, WhiteWall said:

but if offers came in he and Ancelotti would discuss it. Which is standard agent posturing. Anyway the point wasnt really about Richarlison, I just threw that out there.  The point I was making is that CHO should be at least a full season away from our team and needs to go to a decent team in a physical league. I'm not convinced at the moment that he has the tools to make it currently 

When the next season starts we will have 2 wingers: Pulisic and Ziyech. Pulisic is maybe going to be injured for a longer time period. So if we loan CHO we will be with 1 winger which is Ziyech, with the option to play Werner as a winger and Mount.

No way that a loan move would be good for CHO and for us, next season he will get many more games to play, League Cup, FA Cup, CL, 38 PL games that's all too much for just 2 wingers, Pulisic and Ziyech will need to rest and there is where CHO comes in.

[mwblue10]

1 hour ago, WhiteWall said:

so that's a 1 in 10 game ratio then

It’s a goal or assist every 142 minutes, not sure where you are pulling your ratio from.

[ducavis]

13 hours ago, WhiteWall said:

so that's a 1 in 10 game ratio then

2nd only to Pulisic; and you can argue with more mins which he should have been rewarded with, his output would have been better.

[ducavis]

13 hours ago, Gol15 said:

When the next season starts we will have 2 wingers: Pulisic and Ziyech. Pulisic is maybe going to be injured for a longer time period. So if we loan CHO we will be with 1 winger which is Ziyech, with the option to play Werner as a winger and Mount.

No way that a loan move would be good for CHO and for us, next season he will get many more games to play, League Cup, FA Cup, CL, 38 PL games that's all too much for just 2 wingers, Pulisic and Ziyech will need to rest and there is where CHO comes in.

Why wouldn’t it be good for him? He will be getting starts in a mid table team and developing, currently the token 15mins isn’t doing him any good. 
You are forgetting Lamps seems to class Mount as a winger & has him ahead of CHO, Werner might start some games on the LW, Havertz if we get him can fill in on the flanks, and if we somehow retain Willian he will be ahead of him. He needs a loan move like right now.

[Ukraine Bolt]

19 hours ago, WhiteWall said:

so that's a 1 in 10 game ratio then

Better goal contribution per minute than workhorse POTY Willian

[Gol15]

8 hours ago, ducavis said:

Why wouldn’t it be good for him? He will be getting starts in a mid table team and developing, currently the token 15mins isn’t doing him any good. 
You are forgetting Lamps seems to class Mount as a winger & has him ahead of CHO, Werner might start some games on the LW, Havertz if we get him can fill in on the flanks, and if we somehow retain Willian he will be ahead of him. He needs a loan move like right now.

Next season will be different you can't expect things to be the same, Willian and Pedro won't be here and CHO will get more playtime, specially since Pulisic is injured. If you want to see the whole picture of this season, CHO was ahead of Pulisic at the very start of the season, Mount naturally is in the middle and he isn't seen as a winger.

[ducavis]

1 hour ago, Gol15 said:

Next season will be different you can't expect things to be the same, Willian and Pedro won't be here and CHO will get more playtime, specially since Pulisic is injured. If you want to see the whole picture of this season, CHO was ahead of Pulisic at the very start of the season, Mount naturally is in the middle and he isn't seen as a winger.

He really wasn’t; Mount actually started the 1st PL 4-0 loss against Utd. CHO was injured at the beginning of the season, came back against Grimsby in the cups in Sept; scored, got 3 assists against Brighton, Southampton & Newcastle (best player) in the league and an assist against Ajax in the PL. That performance against Newcastle alone in the middle of Oct should have guaranteed more starts, but Nope he never started a PL  game again till Boxing Day. Like with Greenwood & Martinelli at that age what they need is continuity and they will produce.

Personally feel come next season he might find himself stuck behind Mount at the beginning of the season, and when Pulisic comes back he will be 4th or 5th depending on if we get Havertz & Lamps has to shuttle Mount somewhere.

[Gol15]

Just now, ducavis said:

He really wasn’t; Mount actually started the 1st PL 4-0 loss against Utd. CHO was injured at the beginning of the season, came back against Grimsby in the cups in Sept; scored, got 3 assists against Brighton, Southampton & Newcastle (best player) in the league and an assist against Ajax in the PL. That performance against Newcastle alone in the middle of Oct should have guaranteed more starts, but Nope he never started a PL  game again till Boxing Day. Like with Greenwood & Martinelli at that age what they need is continuity and they will produce.

Personally feel come next season he might find himself stuck behind Mount at the beginning of the season, and when Pulisic comes back he will be 4th or 5th depending on if we get Havertz & Lamps has to shuttle Mount somewhere.

Yes you're right, I just remember that sometime after September, like you say in October, CHO started games ahead of Pulisic but then Pulisic scored a hat-trick which made him a first choice.

Mount should play in the middle and our wingers for next season are Pulisic, Ziyech and CHO so we don't even have 4 natural wingers, that alone should guarantee that CHO plays many more games. I'm not in favor of Mount starting as a winger ahead of CHO next season.

[WhiteWall]

9 hours ago, RIP Mourinho said:

Better goal contribution per minute than workhorse POTY Willian

So are we saying then that everything is hunky dory if we have a defence that cannot defend and a group of attacking players with a goal ratio of 1 in 10 games. With these types of credentials is it any wonder that when the crunch games come along we cannot help but fail.

[Ukraine Bolt]

23 minutes ago, WhiteWall said:

So are we saying then that everything is hunky dory if we have a defence that cannot defend and a group of attacking players with a goal ratio of 1 in 10 games. With these types of credentials is it any wonder that when the crunch games come along we cannot help but fail.

He get a goal or assist every 146 mins. If him and Ziyech are assisting and Pulisic/Werner are scoring, what's the issue here?

Defence is the problem, not attack. 

[haviet1]

the real question here is does Lamp have confidence in CHO? That's all that matters.

In a game where you're chasing a trophy, you rather sub in a semi retired Pedro Instead of a young talent, jt's quite telling for me. And this was not an isolated incident. 

[Slojo]

5 hours ago, haviet1 said:

the real question here is does Lamp have confidence in CHO? That's all that matters.

In a game where you're chasing a trophy, you rather sub in a semi retired Pedro Instead of a young talent, jt's quite telling for me. And this was not an isolated incident. 

That sub for me was quite eye opening, I think it shows that Lampard doesn't have that much trust in him yet. Not saying Lampard doesn't rate him, but he can't rate him that highly if he thinks Pedro will offer more, I was bewildered with that decision. 

If we were winning 2-0 then yes, Pedro works hard and has more experience, but chasing a game with our most influential player coming off, and Callum doesn't even get the nod? That doesn't look good to me. 

[Argo]

1 hour ago, Slojo said:

That sub for me was quite eye opening, I think it shows that Lampard doesn't have that much trust in him yet. Not saying Lampard doesn't rate him, but he can't rate him that highly if he thinks Pedro will offer more, I was bewildered with that decision. 

If we were winning 2-0 then yes, Pedro works hard and has more experience, but chasing a game with our most influential player coming off, and Callum doesn't even get the nod? That doesn't look good to me. 

In fairness similar was said in September when Pulisic was ignored vs Valencia and Liverpool.

In think in that moment Frank probably had Pedro's experience of major finals in his thought process, rightly or wrongly.

[Slojo]

1 hour ago, Argo said:

In fairness similar was said in September when Pulisic was ignored vs Valencia and Liverpool.

In think in that moment Frank probably had Pedro's experience of major finals in his thought process, rightly or wrongly.

I could be looking too much into it, but a cup final when we're a goal down? I thought it was a weird sub, Callum is a player we rely on for flair and creativity, Pedro is well past his best and has only had one good game this season, against Everton, besides that he's only really good at putting a shift in when he comes off the bench. 

Edited August 4, 2020 by Slojo

[Malcolm9]

I thought he brought on Pedro as a final swansong as such, hoping that his experience would of brought something different. I think CHO will get plenty of opportunities next season.

[Kentonio]

7 hours ago, Slojo said:

That sub for me was quite eye opening, I think it shows that Lampard doesn't have that much trust in him yet. Not saying Lampard doesn't rate him, but he can't rate him that highly if he thinks Pedro will offer more, I was bewildered with that decision. 

If we were winning 2-0 then yes, Pedro works hard and has more experience, but chasing a game with our most influential player coming off, and Callum doesn't even get the nod? That doesn't look good to me. 

Pedro immediately created a few openings after he came on. It was a good sub.

[dkw]

3 hours ago, Slojo said:

I could be looking too much into it, but a cup final when we're a goal down? I thought it was a weird sub, Callum is a player we rely on for flair and creativity, Pedro is well past his best and has only had one good game this season, against Everton, besides that he's only really good at putting a shift in when he comes off the bench. 

Pedro was brought on to do a specific job of getting beyond the defenders into space to accept a pass, thats something CHO doesnt do currently. 

[ducavis]

15 hours ago, WhiteWall said:

So are we saying then that everything is hunky dory if we have a defence that cannot defend and a group of attacking players with a goal ratio of 1 in 10 games. With these types of credentials is it any wonder that when the crunch games come along we cannot help but fail.

The attacking players we are using now who are meant to good at pressing & defending have led to the highest number of goals conceded in 23 years. Maybe if they were very good in the final third  instead of faffing around, the whole team wouldn’t crumble every time the opposition had a chance.

[ducavis]

4 hours ago, Slojo said:

I could be looking too much into it, but a cup final when we're a goal down? I thought it was a weird sub, Callum is a player we rely on for flair and creativity, Pedro is well past his best and has only had one good game this season, against Everton, besides that he's only really good at putting a shift in when he comes off the bench. 

It was bizarre; the Arsenal fans I watched the game with were worried about CHO running at their defence when the cameras panned at him before the sub. They couldn’t believe their luck when Pedro came on.

[Jangz]

 

i saw this clip of Ansu Fati.. i didnt see anything special here but he is supposedly a 70mil player.. If anything CHO seems to have a better passing .. both players are very similar IMO, both like to switch play and come inside.. if these are the expectations of a young player I am fairly confident on CHO at 18 he was better than this.. It seems he has lost a year because of injury but clearly has a higher ceiling..