Although i think us as a club could easily spend more each transfer window i'm more worried about what/how we're spending it.

 

When we see City buying a Gabriel Jesus for the same fee we're looking at spending on Andy Carroll (rumour). Drinkwater for the same money Munich spent on Tolisso. I'd rather us fill our squad with youth players and buy players that will actually bolster the starting 11. 

5 minutes ago, RIP Mourinho said:

Although i think us as a club could easily spend more each transfer window i'm more worried about what/how we're spending it.

 

When we see City buying a Gabriel Jesus for the same fee we're looking at spending on Andy Carroll (rumour). Drinkwater for the same money Munich spent on Tolisso. I'd rather us fill our squad with youth players and buy players that will actually bolster the starting 11. 

What would fans rather see?, a world class midfielder for 80m + with someone like Van Ginkel or Loftus Cheek. Or DD and Baka. If Chelsea sign Carroll that's nearly 70m on backup forwards. Is Carroll better than Abraham?, Carroll is always injured and is injured again now.

Personally with how important champions league football is I would have thought Chelsea would push through the transfer of Sanchez to give Chelsea more of a chance. Arsenal got lucky some years getting into the champions league and it caught up with them in the end.

It's not what you spend, it's the way that you spend it, and that's what gets results, you can try hard, don't mean a thing,  take it easy, and then your squad will swing.

6 hours ago, RIP Mourinho said:

Although i think us as a club could easily spend more each transfer window i'm more worried about what/how we're spending it.

 

When we see City buying a Gabriel Jesus for the same fee we're looking at spending on Andy Carroll (rumour). Drinkwater for the same money Munich spent on Tolisso. I'd rather us fill our squad with youth players and buy players that will actually bolster the starting 11. 

Without getting into a huge thing about it, it would be a very similar scouting network that picks up Oscar to the one that also picks up Gabriel Jesus.  Not saying Jesus will become as irrelevant as Oscar did, but it's not not like we do anything different when picking up our young Brazillians.  Oscar would be the pick of the bunch as well.

Edit: My point being we haven't been dormant in that area of scouting.  They haven't been great though. Oscar, Kenedy, Nathan and maybe even Piazon?

I think the youth team will play a huge part in keeping budget for transfers.  Invest in them young and sell/use.

Edited January 17, 20188 yr by Van Butsen

Feel we need a complete overhaul.
Pedro, Willian are getting on the older side, their form isn't that great and they'll only decrease in value.
Drinkwater and Bakayoko, I'll give the benefit of the doubt because they're new.
Zappacosta is only there to fill up the squad.
Michy obviously seems to going the other way.
Luiz seems to be back to his old self.
Moses, while good on his day, shouldn't be our starting 11 standard. 
I want all these players to succeed but I can't help think next summer will define our path as a club for the next few years, we need to invest in the squad.

Board needs to focus on improving the starting 11 first. Squad players can be filled with the youth. 

 

2 hours ago, Deino said:

Board needs to focus on improving the starting 11 first. Squad players can be filled with the youth. 

 

I said in the match day thread earlier, if Drinkwater was a Chelsea youngster, would we have kept him, or loaned him out ? I think we would have loaned him out. Why spend £30m on players that aren't really any better than our young players that are breaking through ? Drinkwater is not £30m better than RLC and Chalobah, that is something i am sure of. The same goes with Bakayoko. So far, i have seen nothing from Bakayoko that Chalobah couldn't have done.

I just don't understand our logic in buying and loaning players out. We are spending £30-£40m on players that aren't any better than the players we have sent out on loan. If Loftus-Cheek and Chalobah were given the chances Bakayoko and Drinkwater have been given, then they could have developed into very good players for us and we could have saved £70m which could have been used to strengthen other positions, like RW, RWB or LWB.

22 minutes ago, Scott Harris said:

I said in the match day thread earlier, if Drinkwater was a Chelsea youngster, would we have kept him, or loaned him out ? I think we would have loaned him out. Why spend £30m on players that aren't really any better than our young players that are breaking through ? Drinkwater is not £30m better than RLC and Chalobah, that is something i am sure of. The same goes with Bakayoko. So far, i have seen nothing from Bakayoko that Chalobah couldn't have done.

I just don't understand our logic in buying and loaning players out. We are spending £30-£40m on players that aren't any better than the players we have sent out on loan. If Loftus-Cheek and Chalobah were given the chances Bakayoko and Drinkwater have been given, then they could have developed into very good players for us and we could have saved £70m which could have been used to strengthen other positions, like RW, RWB or LWB.

They don't have to be 30m better they just have to be better now. This stems from us changing managers so often but why play either of RLC or Chalo if you the manager think the other two give you a better chance of winning now when you're probably out the door in a year? 

I'm all for giving young players opportunities especially when the senior players are so dreadful but Conte must have looked at those two and thought they wouldn't help this season. How many clubs would prefer RLC or Chalo to Drinkwater for the next 12 months? 

It's revisionist but maybe Conte wasn't aware the club wanted to work on a budget and he's tired of it. He left Juventus bc they essentially wouldn't spend enough. I hope that's not the case here and he stays and spends 200m on the right players this summer while dropping the dead money we have on the books and incorporating our youth champions. I feel like he could be the right man to back if given the money and time but this is a business and our owner is about to sink a lot of money into making it self sustainable.  

15 hours ago, RIP Mourinho said:

Although i think us as a club could easily spend more each transfer window i'm more worried about what/how we're spending it.

That's the point most are missing, they think the money's not there, it is. Our gross outlay this summer gone was the 4th highest in football history for one window, yes a lot of that was recouped by player sales but lets look at who we sold, Costa was a vital player yes but Matic was considered the weak link, the rest were basically loan army players.  £200m was more than enough to significantly improve the squad, where have the scouts who got Courtois, KDB and Azpi gone? They would have had a field day with that kitty.

It's not the money that's an issue, it's who it's going on. Anyone who had a substantial say in last summers window should have no involvement in transfers going forward and yes, i include Conte in that if he had a say in it all.

20 hours ago, Ernie_blue said:

What would fans rather see?, a world class midfielder for 80m + with someone like Van Ginkel or Loftus Cheek. Or DD and Baka. If Chelsea sign Carroll that's nearly 70m on backup forwards. Is Carroll better than Abraham?, Carroll is always injured and is injured again now.

Personally with how important champions league football is I would have thought Chelsea would push through the transfer of Sanchez to give Chelsea more of a chance. Arsenal got lucky some years getting into the champions league and it caught up with them in the end.

Well this is an interesting point. I’ve said this a few times but we spent what? Approx. £80m on Bakayoko & DD a year after we’d been linked with Pogba for approx. £90m.

 

Now, who in there right mind would look at those three players and take the first option? Considering if you combine their salaries you’re probably 2/3 of the way to what Pogba would have wanted and all banter aside, he is a very classy football player, his ability to run with the ball through the midfield is something we desperately cry out for.

 

We've spent money, we’ve just spent it on sh*te. I hope Barkley is a good player for us but we paid £15m? United apparently paying £20m roughly for Sanchez - yes different salaries by quite a bit I imagine but also different players, ones world class the other never fulfilled his potential in mosr peoples eyes. 

 

Can I also ask someone who’s good at this sort of thing (I’m not) how much more a year will an extra 20k seats actually make us? I just can’t see how that is going to suddenly make us start splashing the cash at the top table again but I don’t really get how all this stuff works 

I think this will probably turn out to be a transitional season.

We've lost Emenalo and few of us think Conte will stay beyond this season.

We have a number of players at 29,30 ish.

We have the looming stadium rebuild.

On the plus side we have Christensen, Azpi, Rudiger and more recently Ampadu so the bulk of the defence looks solid for the foreseeable future.

Caballero unlikely to be a long term purchase also looks quality as second keeper.

In terms of genuine saleable assets we have Courtois, Hazard and Kante that would bring in a lot of funds if we decide we need to sell.

We seem to have made a lot of questionable purchases, in three categories long term investments, short term stop gaps and outright gambles.

Long term investments in Morata and Bakayoko, these may prove to be good decisions although there are signs they may not.

Short term stop gaps with Drinkwater, Zappacosta.

Outright gamble - Barkley (talented yet wirh a bad injury and previously inconsistent)

IMO - At least one of the purchases above will come good.

Promising loanees - RLC and Marcus Van Ginkel would need to be re-assessed at the end of the season.

 

Right now we need a back up striker even if stop gap to ensure we reach the CL.

 

 

11 hours ago, TheChelseaBlues said:

They don't have to be 30m better they just have to be better now. This stems from us changing managers so often but why play either of RLC or Chalo if you the manager think the other two give you a better chance of winning now when you're probably out the door in a year? 

I'm all for giving young players opportunities especially when the senior players are so dreadful but Conte must have looked at those two and thought they wouldn't help this season. How many clubs would prefer RLC or Chalo to Drinkwater for the next 12 months? 

It's revisionist but maybe Conte wasn't aware the club wanted to work on a budget and he's tired of it. He left Juventus bc they essentially wouldn't spend enough. I hope that's not the case here and he stays and spends 200m on the right players this summer while dropping the dead money we have on the books and incorporating our youth champions. I feel like he could be the right man to back if given the money and time but this is a business and our owner is about to sink a lot of money into making it self sustainable.  

But are they better now though ? Drinkwater and Bakayoko are doing nothing that shows that they are better than RLC and Chalobah so far.

Oh I'd take RLC over Baka in a heartbeat right now but at the beginning of the season when transfers are made? Drinkwater is easily better than both currently IMO. He's a different type of player to RLC and in an CAM role maybe better but we have Cesc there. 

This might not be a popular one, and I don't want to seem ungrateful to Roman who has taken us to where we are today...I am eternally grateful for his contribution, but IF he refuses to invest any further in the club and we continue our downward trajectory (I'm not referring to position in the table, I am referring to overall lack of investment and ambition for new signings), would we be better off with a new owner?

He can't empty his pockets year on year, and I understand that, but we've come to expect a lot here, and it is kind of nice being at the top.

Would you prefer a new billionaire owner with a fat wallet and a eye for the prize, or are we happy with things as they are heading, accepting 4-6 place in the table over the next few years and beyond, and can look back at the past decade with fond memories but happy to be there in respect of Roman and all he's done. what does everyone think? 

We are in the process of getting a new stadium which is going to cost the best part of 1 billion quid. Let that sink in 

Has anyone done the sums as to how much 20,000'extra seats will earn us per yr?

16 minutes ago, Odiddy said:

Has anyone done the sums as to how much 20,000'extra seats will earn us per yr?

30??games x £70?? x 20'000 = £42m

Thanks; arguably not worth it then if it takes us 20+ yrs to pay stadium back at ~40m per year. 

Esp if that investment results in us losing our status in the league and therefore loss of revenue gained through success.

 

 

I think the increase will largely be in hospitality seating which is charged at a higher rate. So the difference is significant. I'd imagine the club has done it's due diligence.

Two other points:

We don't really know whether this perceived lack of investment is related to the stadium or not. 

The club invested well over 150m in the summer on transfer fees alone. For me that is fine. The problem is that 100m of that was spent on Bakayoko, Drinkwater and Zappacosta. 

7 hours ago, coco said:

30??games x £70?? x 20'000 = £42m

Corporate boxes etc will treble that, minimum. This build is not about the average fan who rocks up to the game with a season ticket, he will not earn the club much money. 

23 hours ago, EdinburghBlue said:

Well this is an interesting point. I’ve said this a few times but we spent what? Approx. £80m on Bakayoko & DD a year after we’d been linked with Pogba for approx. £90m.

 

Now, who in there right mind would look at those three players and take the first option? Considering if you combine their salaries you’re probably 2/3 of the way to what Pogba would have wanted and all banter aside, he is a very classy football player, his ability to run with the ball through the midfield is something we desperately cry out for.

 

We've spent money, we’ve just spent it on sh*te. I hope Barkley is a good player for us but we paid £15m? United apparently paying £20m roughly for Sanchez - yes different salaries by quite a bit I imagine but also different players, ones world class the other never fulfilled his potential in mosr peoples eyes. 

 

Can I also ask someone who’s good at this sort of thing (I’m not) how much more a year will an extra 20k seats actually make us? I just can’t see how that is going to suddenly make us start splashing the cash at the top table again but I don’t really get how all this stuff works 

I agree with the start of this in regards to the Bakayoko and DD when we could have had Pogba and Chalobah/RLC for a similar outlay. 

 

The bit in bald doesn't work though. Its been widely reported that Sanchez is costing Utd £180m over the course of his contract. £35m transfer fee + £20m signing on fee + £10m agent fee + £115m on wages over 5 years. Sanchez is already 29 years old too.

Barkley on the other hand is more like £15m transfer fee + £15m agent and player fee + £26m wages (assume 100k p/w) = £56m. I've guessed at the agent and signing bonus but can't see it being much more than that. 

10 hours ago, Odiddy said:

This might not be a popular one, and I don't want to seem ungrateful to Roman who has taken us to where we are today...I am eternally grateful for his contribution, but IF he refuses to invest any further in the club and we continue our downward trajectory (I'm not referring to position in the table, I am referring to overall lack of investment and ambition for new signings), would we be better off with a new owner?

He can't empty his pockets year on year, and I understand that, but we've come to expect a lot here, and it is kind of nice being at the top.

Would you prefer a new billionaire owner with a fat wallet and a eye for the prize, or are we happy with things as they are heading, accepting 4-6 place in the table over the next few years and beyond, and can look back at the past decade with fond memories but happy to be there in respect of Roman and all he's done. what does everyone think? 

I think that is an incredibly spoilt attitude, and the bold bit is the worst.  But that's just my opinion.

So the thing I have been wondering is, following Michael Emenalo's departure from the club... Just who exactly is identifying our transfer targets this month but it sure as sh*t isn't Conte? 

 

On the bright side, I've lived through the worst years in the club's history, 78-83, and the greatest, Ruud-now. 

On the whole, mustn't grumble.

4 hours ago, yorkleyblue said:

I think that is an incredibly spoilt attitude, and the bold bit is the worst.  But that's just my opinion.

fair enough;agree to disagree. I think it comes with the territory of being a top club - nothing wrong with fans having high expectations (imho), but respect your view.