29 minutes ago, wallosh said:

4 hours ago, Strider6003 said:

I get a feeling one of our 'own' could also play the regista role, Charly Musonda.

He isn't a defensive midfielder

True yet neither is Jorginho just get the feeling that Musonda is much more mobile when on the ball and his passes normally find their man. Of course he would need coaching as he has been playing further up the pitch.

2 hours ago, Strider6003 said:

True yet neither is Jorginho just get the feeling that Musonda is much more mobile when on the ball and his passes normally find their man. Of course he would need coaching as he has been playing further up the pitch.

i know jorginho has been a bit underwhelming, but musonda would make him look like essien!

Musonda has no strength, he is tactically very naive, and he has never played in any position that would require any sort of real defensive contribution. He's also barely been getting a game at senior level. 

I think there is such a negative opinion now about jorginho, that it is turning into a case of 'anyone will be better than jorginho', when in reality he does some things very well, and some things not so well. 

If we accept theres problems all over the pitch, then I think it's fair to cut jorginho some slack, and see if he apart and improve in the next 18 months.

50 minutes ago, big blue said:

i know jorginho has been a bit underwhelming, but musonda would make him look like essien!

Musonda has no strength, he is tactically very naive, and he has never played in any position that would require any sort of real defensive contribution. He's also barely been getting a game at senior level. 

I think there is such a negative opinion now about jorginho, that it is turning into a case of 'anyone will be better than jorginho', when in reality he does some things very well, and some things not so well. 

If we accept theres problems all over the pitch, then I think it's fair to cut jorginho some slack, and see if he apart and improve in the next 18 months.

True about the strength so no difference from the current situation, the fact he is barely getting a game to me suggests bring him back even if just sits on the bench  and gets coaching.

38 minutes ago, Strider6003 said:

True about the strength so no difference from the current situation, the fact he is barely getting a game to me suggests bring him back even if just sits on the bench  and gets coaching.

Hes been out all season with a knee injury. Before that he has struggled to get games at Celtic and betis. Maybe he could play as the attacking midfielder in the 3, but he is so weak physically, tactically, and defensively, therres no way he could play any deeper, and that's assuming he has matured enough mentally to play at this level. I like musonda, but I think his career will mirror the likes of kakuta unfortunately.

15 hours ago, Strider6003 said:

True yet neither is Jorginho just get the feeling that Musonda is much more mobile when on the ball and his passes normally find their man. Of course he would need coaching as he has been playing further up the pitch.

I've read some nonsense on this board. But this is right up there. 

Musonda is not a good footballer. He's also clearly a bit of a prick. Which is fine if you're Ronaldo, but he's not Ronaldo, he's a weak sh*te player who has flopped everywhere we've sent him. I'm happy being that blunt about him because it's obvious he's a self entitled prick. Celtic couldn't wait to get him away from their club because of his personality. We really don't need another player like that here. 

If musonda is playing in a top division in the next 5 years I'll be shocked. Im certain he will end up drifting from club to club until he retires. 

He's also not a regista, primarily because that isn't about being mobile, it's about having a good footballing brain. Where have you seen that? Jorginho is failing in my mind because the system is failing. Anyone we put in that role won't be good until the other positions are sorted and he has someone to pass to.

Edited February 23, 20197 yr by bisright1

55 minutes ago, coco said:

I think Jorginho has been underwhelming, but if anyone was expecting him to come in and rack up assists, you were doomed to be disappointed from the start.  He’s not Fabregas.  He recycles possession and tries a lofted through pass occasionally.

He's doing his role pretty well. Problem is when we don't have possession, there he is much weaker and exposed and tends to simply foul for yellow cards very fast.

I couldn't find Mikel Obi

4 hours ago, coco said:

In some esteemed company there 

Was dire yesterday got caught on the ball too often.. and always played the safe ball... for a 60 nil player expect more... also lacked any sort of energy and intensity in the defensive phase.. which is surprising given he was up against Harry winks and sissoko too band average footballers... and every time anyone stuck a leg out we won the ball back... 

He looked absolutely knackered last night, as did hazard. I was surprised he didnt come off instead of kovacic. 

He's had a tough week, booed by his own supporters, missed a crucial penalty, and played every minute of 2 extremely demanding games.

I think he could do with a rest at the weekend, and then hopefully with the fixtures coming up, he can some confidence back. 

Genuinely thought he did well last night. Got himself about, tackled well. Moved the ball. Yes he got closed down but that's always going to happen. It's why we have defenders...

It's one of the hardest roles on the pitch and people have visions of Kante being amazing at it - which he isn't. Jorginho did well last night. 

 

Edited February 28, 20197 yr by bisright1

2 hours ago, Jangz said:

Was dire yesterday got caught on the ball too often.. and always played the safe ball... for a 60 nil player expect more... also lacked any sort of energy and intensity in the defensive phase.. which is surprising given he was up against Harry winks and sissoko too band average footballers... and every time anyone stuck a leg out we won the ball back... 

 

56 minutes ago, big blue said:

He looked absolutely knackered last night, as did hazard. I was surprised he didnt come off instead of kovacic. 

He's had a tough week, booed by his own supporters, missed a crucial penalty, and played every minute of 2 extremely demanding games.

I think he could do with a rest at the weekend, and then hopefully with the fixtures coming up, he can some confidence back. 

I opened this thread to expect some love for the guy as he had a very good night last night, but.....deary me. Most tackles, interceptions and recoveries, put in a real shift and ran his butt off, and he made some crucial recycles under big pressure. I wonder how some fans watch the games if I'm honest.

has become the scapegoat this season...not sure why fans think getting on his back at games will help. There are times where he's been caught in possession or a pass hasn't come off, but the level of hysteria around him has got so bad that people aren't seeing any of the good things he does. I'm no fan-boy. But just as people were getting carried away how good he was in the first three months of the season, it has swung too far the other way the past three months.

5 minutes ago, venom2011 said:

 

I opened this thread to expect some love for the guy as he had a very good night last night, but.....deary me. Most tackles, interceptions and recoveries, put in a real shift and ran his butt off, and he made some crucial recycles under big pressure. I wonder how some fans watch the games if I'm honest.

We all see the same thing, it's just how we interpret it that differs.

13 minutes ago, venom2011 said:

 

I opened this thread to expect some love for the guy as he had a very good night last night, but.....deary me. Most tackles, interceptions and recoveries, put in a real shift and ran his butt off, and he made some crucial recycles under big pressure. I wonder how some fans watch the games if I'm honest.

I dont think he was poor last night by any stretch, but I do think he looked very tired, which was understandable. You seem to have taken that as me criticising his perfomance. 

 

10 minutes ago, coco said:

We all see the same thing, it's just how we interpret it that differs.

For sure, but that shouldn't always be the case. There can be blatantly ridiculous interpretations which should be put to rest (via discussions, as is the purpose of a forum).

 

1 minute ago, big blue said:

I dont think he was poor last night by any stretch, but I do think he looked very tired, which was understandable. You seem to have taken that as me criticising his perfomance. 

 

A reasonable assumption as you addressed fatigue, possible substitution, a difficult period for the player and hope for the return of some confidence. All this despite him having a good game and not once mentioning any aspect of that. But my apologies if that wasn't your intention. Most of the squad looked fatigued so it never stood out for me. Hazard though seemed shot after 25 mins.

2 minutes ago, venom2011 said:

For sure, but that shouldn't always be the case. There can be blatantly ridiculous interpretations which should be put to rest (via discussions, as is the purpose of a forum).

 

A reasonable assumption as you addressed fatigue, possible substitution, a difficult period for the player and hope for the return of some confidence. All this despite him having a good game and not once mentioning any aspect of that. But my apologies if that wasn't your intention. Most of the squad looked fatigued so it never stood out for me. Hazard though seemed shot after 25 mins.

Fair enough, I thought played okay, defensively he did pretty well, but there were some tired passes going forward, I was just thinking ahead to be honest, and how he could maybe do with a rest. 

I like jorginho, I think some of the criticism is unwarranted, especially bringing up the assist stat, which is pretty meaningless, since he has made chances that just haven't been taken. 

He's new to the league, and I'm hoping the fans stick with him and dont destroy his confidence, because I think next season, he will be alot better, as will the team. 

In the first five minutes Sissoko just pushed / eased Jorginho off the ball like he was a six year old. It wasn't the only time. Frequently dallied on the ball too long, didn't pass well, passing five yards to a team mate who is already being pressured is not a good pass... all in all a bit of a mare. Any other manager except his dad and he would of got the Shepard's hook at half time.

He really does seem to struggle in these super fast, high intensity games. Absolutely bloody made up we beat those melts last night, but no doubt whatsoever, we won the game in spite of Jorginho not because of him.

30 minutes ago, just said:

In the first five minutes Sissoko just pushed / eased Jorginho off the ball like he was a six year old. It wasn't the only time. Frequently dallied on the ball too long, didn't pass well, passing five yards to a team mate who is already being pressured is not a good pass... all in all a bit of a mare. Any other manager except his dad and he would of got the Shepard's hook at half time.

He really does seem to struggle in these super fast, high intensity games. Absolutely bloody made up we beat those melts last night, but no doubt whatsoever, we won the game in spite of Jorginho not because of him.

Must have been watching a different game, or maybe I have a different view on his role.

Of course he struggles in these games. That's supposed to happen. If he didn't, then the game would be easy. 

Kante would and has struggled in that role in these types of games and he's one of the best midfielders in the world. 

He made lots of tackles, interceptions, got himself about and recycled the ball and started attacks. That is literally his job and he did it.  Tottenham didn't have a single shot on target. 

I have seen Kante get overrun brushed off the ball bullied far worst than Jorginho but no one notices. The idiots who call themselves pundits started this narrative of jorginho from the start of the season question his role and "some" gullible fans picked it up. SMFH.....

Good game. Can appear slow at times but then the other guys are trying their damnest too.

He came to be the key player for keeping possession, and he's the top passer in the league in his first season. So he is doing his role that Sarri wants him to do, anything else is extra and would make him a better player.

1 hour ago, just said:

In the first five minutes Sissoko just pushed / eased Jorginho off the ball like he was a six year old. It wasn't the only time. Frequently dallied on the ball too long, didn't pass well, passing five yards to a team mate who is already being pressured is not a good pass... all in all a bit of a mare. Any other manager except his dad and he would of got the Shepard's hook at half time.

He really does seem to struggle in these super fast, high intensity games. Absolutely bloody made up we beat those melts last night, but no doubt whatsoever, we won the game in spite of Jorginho not because of him.

First time you've seen a much bigger player overpower someone? And no it never happened frequently - he was dispossessed twice in the match. 

Dallied on the ball once or twice from memory. He generally played it quick and decisively. Gave it away a couple times.

A 5 yard pass is good if you're under pressure, surrounded as he often is, and recycles it almost immediately. Have you seen Kante try to control and pass under pressure?

1 hour ago, big blue said:

Fair enough, I thought played okay, defensively he did pretty well, but there were some tired passes going forward, I was just thinking ahead to be honest, and how he could maybe do with a rest. 

I like jorginho, I think some of the criticism is unwarranted, especially bringing up the assist stat, which is pretty meaningless, since he has made chances that just haven't been taken. 

He's new to the league, and I'm hoping the fans stick with him and dont destroy his confidence, because I think next season, he will be alot better, as will the team. 

Yep. Even the great Iniesta averaged about 2 assists per season in his last 3 or 4 seasons at Barca. The assist stat is borderline meaningless in isolation.