49 minutes ago, Girish said:

I don't think the problem entirely lies with Jorginho here. It's Sarri's tactics. More than half of Chelsea's gameplan is Jorginho getting the ball and dictating play. When teams effectively shut down Jorginho by sheer strength in numbers, there is no plan B to fall back on. Almost all teams have figured this out by now and that's where we're getting caught. Jorginho is doing exactly what he has been asked to do but when he's taken out from the equation, there has to be a plan B and that's something Sarri has not figured out yet. It's high time though.

Agreed. I don't necessarily think he is the problem, although there are still some flaws in his game to play in that position. However retaining possesion in that part of the pitch with little forward momentum puts the opposition straight into the soft underbelly of our weak defence. All four defenders this season have ranged from indifferent to downright shocking form and even Kepa still looks weak and our of his depth in some situations. With these limitations Jorginho has few options available to him in fairness.

What I saw today was little different to what I saw when Cesc was exposed in a similar position last season.

When you are supposed to press high and you do that poorly, your slow players in behind will always be exposed. 

We can't press high currently because Hazard and others don't run. That immediately exposes anyone in behind.  

The madness is asking them to press high anyway.

3 hours ago, Jonty said:

From what I can tell his main positive contribution to the team is that we retain more possession (although this could just be Sarri's tactics vs the more pragmatic Conte/Mourinho). Even if we assume this is true, i'm struggling to really see the benefit, as we always had plenty of possession against lesser teams, and despite having more of the ball in the big games now we're getting torn apart defensively.

 

Great to see you posting again, you've been missed.

9 hours ago, Girish said:

I don't think the problem entirely lies with Jorginho here. It's Sarri's tactics. More than half of Chelsea's gameplan is Jorginho getting the ball and dictating play. When teams effectively shut down Jorginho by sheer strength in numbers, there is no plan B to fall back on. Almost all teams have figured this out by now and that's where we're getting caught. Jorginho is doing exactly what he has been asked to do but when he's taken out from the equation, there has to be a plan B and that's something Sarri has not figured out yet. It's high time though.

You won't get an argument from me over Sarri's tactics. But I don't think Jorginho is looking anything other than a very, very average footballer. Even his passing is nothing special IMO. And he has no natural attributes that make him stand out. No pace, no power and strength, no aerial ability, no vision and creativity. Nothing. Nada.

Jorginho is so limited it's baffling the fee we paid for him.  As said above he lacks proficiency in any particular skillset, other than arguably understanding how Sarri wants to implement his football.  He touches the ball a bunch but can't dribble.  All his passes are sideways or backward.  He cannot properly defend when teams counter as he lacks real physicality and pace.  I would really like to see kovacic in this role.  His defensive ability alone would really help.  

1 hour ago, TheChelsRVA said:

Jorginho is so limited it's baffling the fee we paid for him.  As said above he lacks proficiency in any particular skillset, other than arguably understanding how Sarri wants to implement his football.  He touches the ball a bunch but can't dribble.  All his passes are sideways or backward.  He cannot properly defend when teams counter as he lacks real physicality and pace.  I would really like to see kovacic in this role.  His defensive ability alone would really help.  

it's indeed baffling. Based on my observation, Kovacic is better in every department i can think of: tackling, technical ability, passing, keeping the ball, ball control in tight spaces, dribbling... Sarri did say the other day he was looking to use Kovacic for the role, but it seems he just can't let go of his protege, out of a sense of loyalty or i don't know what..

This guy gives us nothing. Can’t defend. Can’t tackle. Can’t dribble. Can’t assist. So for me he’s a passenger. Cesc was far better so we sell him

this guy is an oxygen thief at the club. If we can see it so can the other players. 

Yet he plays almost every game and fails in almost every game

Ever since teams have been putting a man on him we are getting battered. He can't seem to cope with the pressure in the Premier League at the moment. 

23 hours ago, Andy2461 said:

This guy gives us nothing. Can’t defend. Can’t tackle. Can’t dribble. Can’t assist. So for me he’s a passenger. Cesc was far better so we sell him

this guy is an oxygen thief at the club. If we can see it so can the other players. 

Yet he plays almost every game and fails in almost every game

Oxygen thief is a bit much. 

Jorginho is our new scapegoat it seems and has been for a while

Funny how he and Napoli absolutely thrived under Sarri in the same system Sarri is trying to implement here

I'm almost certain in such a tactical League like Serie A someone must have attempted to target Jorginho seeing as he was the key piece in how Napoli played...

It didn't suddenly stop Napoli did it? Why's that? Oh yeah, Napoli played as a collective unit, who moved intelligently across the pitch, who all played as a team, pressed effectively and followed the managers instructions 

Also, guess what, Sarri want's teams to press us, it's what opens up space. Jorginho is great at playing quick passes and moving the ball but that doesn't work when the players are not moving into the right spaces and creating openings to play into 

Again, we play nothing like Napoli. I constantly see Jorginho gesturing to players to move, Sarri is constantly saying the players still don't get his football

Jorginho was the key component at Napoli but that wouldn't have worked if the players around him were not moving into the required spaces

 

 

34 minutes ago, Sparkz said:

Jorginho is our new scapegoat it seems and has been for a while

Funny how he and Napoli absolutely thrived under Sarri in the same system Sarri is trying to implement here

I'm almost certain in such a tactical League like Serie A someone must have attempted to target Jorginho seeing as he was the key piece in how Napoli played...

It didn't suddenly stop Napoli did it? Why's that? Oh yeah, Napoli played as a collective unit, who moved intelligently across the pitch, who all played as a team, pressed effectively and followed the managers instructions 

Also, guess what, Sarri want's teams to press us, it's what opens up space. Jorginho is great at playing quick passes and moving the ball but that doesn't work when the players are not moving into the right spaces and creating openings to play into 

Again, we play nothing like Napoli. I constantly see Jorginho gesturing to players to move, Sarri is constantly saying the players still don't get his football

Jorginho was the key component at Napoli but that wouldn't have worked if the players around him were not moving into the required spaces

 

 

We get it. Jorginho is brilliant. It's everyone else that's the problem. They need to be in spaces. When a space gets filled it is there job to get a new space. They should be spacemen. Otherwise our regista can't play.

But guess what, just because a player and a system has been good in the uber-tactical white hot cauldron of Serie A, (tactical or slow?), it doesn't necessarily follow that they will be just as effective in a different league. Especially one that generally has greater intensity and a faster tempo.

I give you Juan Sebastian Veron. Did you ever see him play in the EPL? He was brilliant too.

As for Jorginho being the scapegoat he is still at the back of the queue behind Willian, Alonso and Barkley. But keep performing like he is and he will surely be moving up.

1 hour ago, Sparkz said:

Jorginho is our new scapegoat it seems and has been for a while

Funny how he and Napoli absolutely thrived under Sarri in the same system Sarri is trying to implement here

I'm almost certain in such a tactical League like Serie A someone must have attempted to target Jorginho seeing as he was the key piece in how Napoli played...

It didn't suddenly stop Napoli did it? Why's that? Oh yeah, Napoli played as a collective unit, who moved intelligently across the pitch, who all played as a team, pressed effectively and followed the managers instructions 

Also, guess what, Sarri want's teams to press us, it's what opens up space. Jorginho is great at playing quick passes and moving the ball but that doesn't work when the players are not moving into the right spaces and creating openings to play into 

Again, we play nothing like Napoli. I constantly see Jorginho gesturing to players to move, Sarri is constantly saying the players still don't get his football

Jorginho was the key component at Napoli but that wouldn't have worked if the players around him were not moving into the required spaces

I agree our players look static at times, I was watching PSG tonight and thought thy looked very slick with midfield passing though think we are aiming for something similar can't see us achieving that anytime soon. 

Spot on.

https://metro.co.uk/2019/02/12/emmanuel-petit-highlights-one-area-jorginho-must-improve-chelsea-8579351/

Thought that Leandro Paredes looked good yesterday when he  came on, faster, good in the tackle, shame we didnt get him, but no matter what, sarri wouldnt drop his son.

11 hours ago, Strider6003 said:

I agree our players look static at times, I was watching PSG tonight and thought thy looked very slick with midfield passing though think we are aiming for something similar can't see us achieving that anytime soon. 

And yet Jorginho has replaced Veratti (who dominated Man U last night) in the Italy national team.

10 minutes ago, Luca Vialli said:

And yet Jorginho has replaced Veratti (who dominated Man U last night) in the Italy national team.

Verrati had better players along side him last night in midfield than we do at this moment in time, they looked fluid.

There is a reason that Pep wanted Jorginho. The problem is, Jorginho is coming from a well oiled machine in Napoli to a rusty machine where the players around him aren't doing their jobs properly. I also believe, as his first season in England, it's an adaption period. When you have players not making the right movements in front of you, it's no surprise he can't pick out the passes he wants to. Having to point certain players where to be constantly. In City's team, he would have slotted in perfectly because they are a well oiled team. He probably wished he had joined them too now. 

Edited February 13, 20197 yr by enigma

1 hour ago, enigma said:

When you have players not making the right movements in front of you, it's no surprise he can't pick out the passes he wants to. Having to point certain players where to be constantly. In City's team, he would have slotted in perfectly because they are a well oiled team. He probably wished he had joined them too now. 

Ever watch Phil Neville play? He used to that too. Point to players, like he was directing them where to go.

I don't think Phil Neville would have got in the Man City team either.

Ampadu does it a huge amount too.

3 hours ago, Luca Vialli said:

And yet Jorginho has replaced Veratti (who dominated Man U last night) in the Italy national team.

Are you sure that is actually true? I thought both of them had been starting in recent matches?

I know in the WC play-off loss to Sweden Jorginho  was on the bench and Veratti played. But Veratti was banned for the home leg tie and so Jorginho came in to the starting line up.

Love Verrati as a player but have heard he is a major party monster off the pitch.

Edited February 13, 20197 yr by just

2 hours ago, Luca Vialli said:

And yet Jorginho has replaced Veratti (who dominated Man U last night) in the Italy national team.

That can't be true? Who is the current Italian coach, Stevie Wonder? Veratti is 10 times the player Jorginho will ever be.

 

Taliking to a Chelsea mate yesterday about Jorginho. Reckons he’s an Italian Johnny Bumstead which made me laugh.

Johnny B was hard as nails and could tackle.

On 20/01/2019 at 09:10, icecoolguy22 said:

City must be laughing now on dodging the bullet on Jorginho. Much been said in match thread, he just doensn't offer anything to make himself as an outstanding and even good midfielder. If we make a highlight reel of his season now, it will be 5 minutes of repeated sideways passing and that penalty.

https://mobile.twitter.com/LaughnDigital/status/1085582610108162048?ref_src=twsrc^tfw|twcamp^tweetembed&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fd-358100444128192568.ampproject.net%2F1902081532110%2Fframe.html

58 minutes ago, rtwelch said:

https://mobile.twitter.com/LaughnDigital/status/1085582610108162048?ref_src=twsrc^tfw|twcamp^tweetembed&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fd-358100444128192568.ampproject.net%2F1902081532110%2Fframe.html

Should be required viewing before anybody's allowed to post on this thread.