20 minutes ago, Dixon said:

And do you think teams are bothered about our midfield having possession when they know they can't/ don't hurt them with it? Can you seriously not see the enormous gulf between what City's players do with the ball and our three? Look, I'm happy with the progress so far, especially after the shambolic summer with Sarri coming in so late. But those three together will not be good enough longterm. Fine if we want to be 3rd-6th level team cut defo not champs!

It's not up to them three to hurt the other team on the scoring steaks, it's not their main job, they are here to offer the platform for the whole team to perform and do their job just fine. All our front players with the possible exception of Giroud are going to hit better numbers than last term purely because of the way we control games.

It's the striker and fullback positions that need improving, that midfield is the best we have had for quite some time.

2 hours ago, Argo said:

It's not up to them three to hurt the other team on the scoring steaks, it's not their main job, they are here to offer the platform for the whole team to perform and do their job just fine. All our front players with the possible exception of Giroud are going to hit better numbers than last term purely because of the way we control games.

It's the striker and fullback positions that need improving, that midfield is the best we have had for quite some time.

Alonso offers so much more than all the midfield 3 put together. It's upto one of the midfield 3 to supply goals and assists, you can't have 3 players ticking over and playing 5 yrs passes.

28 minutes ago, Ernie_blue said:

Alonso offers so much more than all the midfield 3 put together. It's upto one of the midfield 3 to supply goals and assists, you can't have 3 players ticking over and playing 5 yrs passes.

That's a massive insult to all 3 to say they just make 5 yard passes. It doesn't matter where the goals come from as long as they do, we are the second highest scorers in the league so this myth that we aren't getting enough goals from other areas to compensate for that trio is just that.

Our midfield is up there with best this season........sure they dont score but the days of Lamps caliber players are long gone. What we have is more than good enough to do their jobs.......im not feeling Kante like I did before but still one quality asset.

3 hours ago, Ernie_blue said:

Alonso offers so much more than all the midfield 3 put together. It's upto one of the midfield 3 to supply goals and assists, you can't have 3 players ticking over and playing 5 yrs passes.

To be fair, Alonso spends more time in the opposition box/final third that the rest of the team put together.

5 hours ago, Argo said:

That's a massive insult to all 3 to say they just make 5 yard passes. It doesn't matter where the goals come from as long as they do, we are the second highest scorers in the league so this myth that we aren't getting enough goals from other areas to compensate for that trio is just that.

5 yrd passes was the wrong thing to say. I actually really like Jorginho and the way he runs games etc. I'm just with others with the view you don't need 3 midfielders who don't really offer anything goal wise or create many chances. I could see the benefit away to the big teams or in Europe but defiantly no need at home. I don't see why Pedro, Willian and Hazard can't all play.

11 hours ago, Argo said:

That's a massive insult to all 3 to say they just make 5 yard passes. It doesn't matter where the goals come from as long as they do, we are the second highest scorers in the league so this myth that we aren't getting enough goals from other areas to compensate for that trio is just that.

And as pointed out before, 2nd highest chance creators, 2nd highest shots at goal, 2nd highest shots on target etc....but yeah, lets keep peddling this myth that we arent crating enough because we have a terrible midfield 3 who just play 5 yard passes to each other for 90 minuets. 

22 minutes ago, dkw said:

And as pointed out before, 2nd highest chance creators, 2nd highest shots at goal, 2nd highest shots on target etc....but yeah, lets keep peddling this myth that we arent crating enough because we have a terrible midfield 3 who just play 5 yard passes to each other for 90 minuets. 

Are Chelsea's midfield 3 really all 2nd in all those stats? I don't know where to find those sort of stats but fair play if they are.

Perhaps we should bin off Dave - he doesn't score much.  And that bloke at the back in the yellow - when did he last do a mazy run through the opposition defence or knock in a volley from the half-way line?

12 hours ago, Argo said:

That's a massive insult to all 3 to say they just make 5 yard passes. It doesn't matter where the goals come from as long as they do, we are the second highest scorers in the league so this myth that we aren't getting enough goals from other areas to compensate for that trio is just that.

Of the current top five we have failed to score in two of our league games, the other four side (Manchester City, Liverpool, Spurs and Arsenal) have failed to score in one. 

The teams the others failed to score against, Arsenal, Liverpool and Spurs draw a blank in their matches against Manchester City. City failing to score against Liverpool. 

We have failed to score against West Ham and Everton.

So although we have scored more goals in total, our rivals are scoring more consistently and against the lesser sides who set themselves up more defensively. 

In my opinion, a lack of goals and creativity from the midfield is definitely something that shouldn't be ignored. You can't rely on the front three for all of the goals, history shows that none of Hazard, Morata, Willian, Giroud and Pedro are capable of scoring 20 goals in season so the responsibility needs to be spread more evenly throughout the team. If none of the first choice midfield 3 are going to get anywhere close to double figures we're going to struggle, like we did against Everton and West Ham more frequently than our rivals. 

Kovacic is an absolutely fantastic midfielder in my opinion, and a level above Barkley (I'm a Barkley fan, I just rate Kovacic very very highly). I feel a lot happier when I see Kovacic's name in our starting line-up - he really helps us control that midfield. He has to start against Spurs.

So, its not the job of the midfield to provide good defensive cover, create goals or score them. Thats like part of a Monty Python take on football where they'd add its not the job of a number 9 to score goals and the keeper to stop them.

Edited November 14, 20187 yr by Dixon

You're embarrassing yourself, mate.  I'd let it drop there, if I was you.

argument over - Mateo starts every match from here on out

50 minutes ago, robdog said:

argument over - Mateo starts every match from here on out

It takes so little to become a Chelsea legend 

2 hours ago, robdog said:

argument over - Mateo starts every match from here on out

Thats f**king golden.....

8 hours ago, ForeverCarefree said:

Of the current top five we have failed to score in two of our league games, the other four side (Manchester City, Liverpool, Spurs and Arsenal) have failed to score in one. 

The teams the others failed to score against, Arsenal, Liverpool and Spurs draw a blank in their matches against Manchester City. City failing to score against Liverpool. 

We have failed to score against West Ham and Everton.

So although we have scored more goals in total, our rivals are scoring more consistently and against the lesser sides who set themselves up more defensively. 

In my opinion, a lack of goals and creativity from the midfield is definitely something that shouldn't be ignored. You can't rely on the front three for all of the goals, history shows that none of Hazard, Morata, Willian, Giroud and Pedro are capable of scoring 20 goals in season so the responsibility needs to be spread more evenly throughout the team. If none of the first choice midfield 3 are going to get anywhere close to double figures we're going to struggle, like we did against Everton and West Ham more frequently than our rivals. 

Reasonable and well put. We have a quality MF, they just lack that ever important goals, especially in our case and our striker issues.

And just like that we found our new captain.... 

I think some fans are happy with the level we're at now (in the top 4 and doing very well) and some are constantly looking further ahead and wanting to be challenging for the league/going far in the CL and that's why they're thinking about upgrades on the weaker links that ain't exactly doing loads wrong at the moment.

Maybe it's a generational thing - those who have seen us in division 2 are bound to be more content with us being in the top 4?

You can be playing well in a team and still be a weaker link. 

Example:

-Alonso's lack of pace and occasional defensive lapses are brought up every now and again yet he is "playing well" and is a big threat for us attacking wise. The counter to this is we could buy someone who is fast, has good concentration and gets up there to support the attack as well.

-David Luiz's crazy moments are well documented yet for us at the moment he is a calming presence and moves us dozens of yards up the pitch when he plays. Again Sarri is rumoured to be in the market for a ball playing centre half who doesn't have those lapses in concentration we presume. 

-The midfield conundrum. I'm not pretending to know the mechanics of a great midfield 3 but the logic would surely be to have one player who attacks, one who does a bit of both, and one who defends. We have the player who attacks, we have the player who defends (be it in an opposite way to the traditional Makelele role) yet it remains to be seen whether we have the one who can do both. The way in which the positions are on the pitch as well probably confuses people.

Logically you would have:

Attacking Midfielder

                                      Midfielder who does a bit of both

Defending Midfielder

Yet we play with:

Midfielder that can/(can't?) do both

                                Defensive midfielder

Attacking midfielder

This is maybe why it confuses people and why they're thinking about the flaws because they stand out more at the moment. But I will leave the real tactics to Mr Sarri and his unique take on football.

Man City have goals & assists from the midfield. Liverpool don't at the moment (and that's why they'll probably fall short) yet they've bought Keita who will probably bring that eventually. 

Finally, on Mateo. I don't know if any of you have noticed, Kovacic has the ability to pass the ball with such power and precision without barely pulling his leg back. It sounds trivial but you can tell he's trained with a lot of very good players. Hopefully the more quick ball work we do in training, the more we'll see it on the pitch.

My two pence (ramble) anyway.

This guy is always saying the right things - I just hope we can keep him but I can see Santi Santiago bringing him back to RM next season

Edited November 15, 20187 yr by robdog

23 minutes ago, robdog said:

This guy is always saying the right things - I just hope we can keep him but I can see Santi Santiago bringing him back to RM next season

Reckon he'll hand in a transfer request if this season continues to go well, hopefully Madrid don't try to fleece us for him. I think he's a stellar footballer, needs to add a little bit to his play in the final third but he's the most natural looking footballer we have besides Alonso and Eden i'd say

26 minutes ago, RMCM said:

Reckon he'll hand in a transfer request if this season continues to go well, hopefully Madrid don't try to fleece us for him. I think he's a stellar footballer, needs to add a little bit to his play in the final third but he's the most natural looking footballer we have besides Alonso and Eden i'd say

btw I meant to type Santi Solari 

38 minutes ago, robdog said:

btw I meant to type Santi Solari 

Nobody noticed, you got away with it. 

6 minutes ago, Valerie said:

Nobody noticed, you got away with it. 

 

On 14/11/2018 at 19:16, rtwelch said:

I think some fans are happy with the level we're at now (in the top 4 and doing very well) and some are constantly looking further ahead and wanting to be challenging for the league/going far in the CL and that's why they're thinking about upgrades on the weaker links that ain't exactly doing loads wrong at the moment.

Maybe it's a generational thing - those who have seen us in division 2 are bound to be more content with us being in the top 4?

You can be playing well in a team and still be a weaker link. 

Example:

-Alonso's lack of pace and occasional defensive lapses are brought up every now and again yet he is "playing well" and is a big threat for us attacking wise. The counter to this is we could buy someone who is fast, has good concentration and gets up there to support the attack as well.

-David Luiz's crazy moments are well documented yet for us at the moment he is a calming presence and moves us dozens of yards up the pitch when he plays. Again Sarri is rumoured to be in the market for a ball playing centre half who doesn't have those lapses in concentration we presume. 

-The midfield conundrum. I'm not pretending to know the mechanics of a great midfield 3 but the logic would surely be to have one player who attacks, one who does a bit of both, and one who defends. We have the player who attacks, we have the player who defends (be it in an opposite way to the traditional Makelele role) yet it remains to be seen whether we have the one who can do both. The way in which the positions are on the pitch as well probably confuses people.

Logically you would have:

Attacking Midfielder

                                      Midfielder who does a bit of both

Defending Midfielder

Yet we play with:

Midfielder that can/(can't?) do both

                                Defensive midfielder

Attacking midfielder

This is maybe why it confuses people and why they're thinking about the flaws because they stand out more at the moment. But I will leave the real tactics to Mr Sarri and his unique take on football.

Man City have goals & assists from the midfield. Liverpool don't at the moment (and that's why they'll probably fall short) yet they've bought Keita who will probably bring that eventually. 

Finally, on Mateo. I don't know if any of you have noticed, Kovacic has the ability to pass the ball with such power and precision without barely pulling his leg back. It sounds trivial but you can tell he's trained with a lot of very good players. Hopefully the more quick ball work we do in training, the more we'll see it on the pitch.

My two pence (ramble) anyway.

 

I agree with much of what you said. .

the main midfield  trio. Yes, i too want a midfield with a defensive player, creative, attacking midfielder and one who does a bit of both. Against a team like City, especially away, i would even be happy with two defensive midfielders.  You say we play with a defensive midfielder, but who is that? Jorginho is the deepest laying midfielder but he's no good at defending. Kante the furthest up but he's no good at attacking. Kova has the technical ability and mobility to be the one who does both, but he's just not doing enough in the oppositions half. He's scored one goal in three and a half years so its not just a rough patch he;s going thru. As i've said before, i think we're doing OK inspite of this midfield trio being a poor combination.

 

 

On 14/11/2018 at 08:57, dkw said:

And as pointed out before, 2nd highest chance creators, 2nd highest shots at goal, 2nd highest shots on target etc....but yeah, lets keep peddling this myth that we arent crating enough because we have a terrible midfield 3 who just play 5 yard passes to each other for 90 minuets. 

Sarri ball is working already, not a single defeat yet and stats are showing it, those Napoli fans that came here last summer and left comments about how great Sarri is as a pure coach type manager were right.

IMO we will need new midfielders after this season, Fabregas is older, Kovacic is only on loan...but I can bet that most fans would openly say that our wingers and strikers should be improved, sure Morata scored a couple of goals but he can still look underwhelming, so can Willian.

Maybe the truth is that a squad could be improved most of the time.

I would still start with Barkley vs Spuds, I believe that he plays more confident as a starter even if he did well as a super sub, IMO in the long run that doesn't make him a better player and if he plays bad Kovacic can always come in and do well while if Kovacic starts and is replaced by Barkley there is less guarantee that he will impact the game.

Kovacic won't score a goal, but he can assist well.