Very good player, I'm pretty sure he will playing lots of games until the end of the season. I reckon he could play any of the 3 positions in midfield.  Barkley has scored goals and put in assists, naturally he will get starts now. Kante is not droppable either, so Kovacic will probably play in cup games for now. If Barkley keeps this up, I'm contend to let Kovacic go if Real is asking for crazy money.

11 hours ago, Scott Harris said:

No, it was because he earned his spot in the squad ahead of Moses because of his performance in the Europa league, and if he keeps taking his chances, he will get in ahead of other players too.

Also, nobody is forgetting how good Kovacic has been so far, it's just that we need goals in this team and others are producing those goals when he isn't. We have struggled to kill off some games in vital moments at times because we have had too many players on the pitch who don't score enough goals.

Yes, RLC had a great match against BATE, and yes he popped up with the goal on Sunday.  The reality of the matter is that RLC still doesn’t make the bench if Hazard is fit.

Maybe I was slightly unclear, or maybe you just misinterpreted my post - I’m not bashing RLC, just making sure we don’t get ahead of ourselves here.  He fully deserved to make the bench for this match, but it wasn’t like he was put on as a sub over Kovacic.  We needed a winger to come on for Pedro, he was the only one who could do that.

Kovacic will get plenty of games, and Loftus Cheek seems to be quite injury prone so you can't rely on him all the time. Barkley is in good form but i think Sarri will rotate Barkley and Kovacic for most of the season. Same with Giroud and Morata.

WhoScored: Best pass accuracy of Premier League midfielders:

Mateo Kovacic -- 94.6%
Ilkay Gundogan -- 93.8%
ROSS BARKLEY -- 92.4%

That could be a reason Sarri likes kovacic, surprised by barkley though, it's not something he's really known for. 

2 minutes ago, dkw said:

WhoScored: Best pass accuracy of Premier League midfielders:

Mateo Kovacic -- 94.6%
Ilkay Gundogan -- 93.8%
ROSS BARKLEY -- 92.4%

That could be a reason Sarri likes kovacic, surprised by barkley though, it's not something he's really known for. 

It's amazing what a player can do when his manager focuses on coaching him instead of telling the media he ain't good enough, Barkley has enough natural talent to be a top player with the right coaching and im very happy to see he's finally getting the coaching he needed. 

We could be talking about £15m for Barkley alongside £7m for Azpi in a few years time.

4 minutes ago, Argo said:

It's amazing what a player can do when his manager focuses on coaching him instead of telling the media he ain't good enough, Barkley has enough natural talent to be a top player with the right coaching and im very happy to see he's finally getting the coaching he needed. 

We could be talking about £15m for Barkley alongside £7m for Azpi in a few years time.

Fully agree, as with RLC I don't his talent was ever in doubt, just more concentration levels and ability to play to a team tactic. 

On 29/10/2018 at 19:00, dkw said:

WhoScored: Best pass accuracy of Premier League midfielders:

Mateo Kovacic -- 94.6%
Ilkay Gundogan -- 93.8%
ROSS BARKLEY -- 92.4%

That could be a reason Sarri likes kovacic, surprised by barkley though, it's not something he's really known for. 

He also has more forward passes and key chance created per game than the pair of them, he's definitely the better footballer, but like I said on the Barkley thread, Barkley is a player who will probably score more goals than Kovacic, particularly if he hits that form he had at Everton when he was a young lad. 

On 29/10/2018 at 19:07, Argo said:

It's amazing what a player can do when his manager focuses on coaching him instead of telling the media he ain't good enough, Barkley has enough natural talent to be a top player with the right coaching and im very happy to see he's finally getting the coaching he needed. 

We could be talking about £15m for Barkley alongside £7m for Azpi in a few years time.

I still think 9 million for Moses was a steal, he's given us a great season and some great games. 

Since he has been dropped to the bench it has gone very quiet in this thread. A steady start but hasn't set the world on fire yet. Hope to see more from him as the season moves on. Badly needs a goal IMO to confirm his status as an attacking midfielder.

1 minute ago, just said:

Since he has been dropped to the bench it has gone very quiet in this thread. A steady start but hasn't set the world on fire yet. Hope to see more from him as the season moves on. Badly needs a goal IMO to confirm his status as an attacking midfielder.

I don't know about needing just needing a goal but I think he could do with getting on the goal or assist sheet, or at least be involved more with the final 3rd. 

In my opinion he's done a lot better than Barkley but Barkley has better numbers (goals/assists), however, when Kovacic is in the team I think we play much better. He's a quality player in my book, I think we should do everything to keep him because I don't think we've seen the best of him yet. 

He plays a lot better under pressure than Barkley and Ruben do, links up with Hazard really well when he goes forward, tidy on the ball, even statistically he has more forward and key passes while also having a better pass completion than both Barkley & Ruben. But I think he's playing a bit too conservatively, that's my criticism of him but overall I don't see a big issue at hand, I think he's getting better and improving, only time will tell how good he becomes but hopefully he does start getting more involved with our goals. 

12 hours ago, Slojo said:

I don't know about needing just needing a goal but I think he could do with getting on the goal or assist sheet, or at least be involved more with the final 3rd. 

In my opinion he's done a lot better than Barkley but Barkley has better numbers (goals/assists), however, when Kovacic is in the team I think we play much better. He's a quality player in my book, I think we should do everything to keep him because I don't think we've seen the best of him yet. 

He plays a lot better under pressure than Barkley and Ruben do, links up with Hazard really well when he goes forward, tidy on the ball, even statistically he has more forward and key passes while also having a better pass completion than both Barkley & Ruben. But I think he's playing a bit too conservatively, that's my criticism of him but overall I don't see a big issue at hand, I think he's getting better and improving, only time will tell how good he becomes but hopefully he does start getting more involved with our goals. 

Barkley and Kovacic are both clearly talented players from whom there should be more to come under Sarri's tutelage.

To that end I certainly think we should keep Kovacic - technically he is impeccable and he's been impressively consistent. 

However, I don't think he's actually performed better than Barkley so far. I think that Barkley has been the more likely match-winner because when he's on his forward movement and better finishing makes him a more likely goal threat, plus he's displayed the ability and willingness to provide the defining killer ball. However, on an off-day he can be mediocre, misplacing passes, making poor decisions and leaving the left flank open (though his work ethic in defence has improved). That said, he's had more good days than bad as of late and IMO he should usually start against non-Top 6 sides just because he is more likely to win a match and less likely to face players who are skilled enough to properly exploit his weaknesses on a bad day. 

Kovacic's defensive acumen, work ethic, more consistent decision-making and impeccable technique make him the more consistent player and a much more bankable prospect against Top 6 sides. However, he's not much of a finisher, he doesn't place himself in scoring positions as often as Barkley and while I think he has the ability (see Real Madrid/Inter) he has rarely provided the defining killer ball. He won't really disappoint but he also seems unlikely to win a match against a stubborn side down the table.  

 

Edited November 8, 20187 yr by DaRick
Wretched typo

On 29/10/2018 at 19:00, dkw said:

WhoScored: Best pass accuracy of Premier League midfielders:

Mateo Kovacic -- 94.6%
Ilkay Gundogan -- 93.8%
ROSS BARKLEY -- 92.4%

That could be a reason Sarri likes kovacic, surprised by barkley though, it's not something he's really known for. 

Pass percentage is one of the most meaningless stats in football. Lots of players get high pass percentages because they play it safe, with 5 yard, often  sideways passes in non threatening areaa a huge percentage of the time. A great passer of a football is one like Hoddle, who took risks playing lots of difficult passes to try and create something. The likes of Kovacic are not in the same league  as a Hoddle! If we had a Hoddle level passer in this team with the way we're set up, we'd be creating chances galore in games.

 

3 hours ago, Dixon said:

Pass percentage is one of the most meaningless stats in football. Lots of players get high pass percentages because they play it safe, with 5 yard, often  sideways passes in non threatening areaa a huge percentage of the time. A great passer of a football is one like Hoddle, who took risks playing lots of difficult passes to try and create something. The likes of Kovacic are not in the same league  as a Hoddle! If we had a Hoddle level passer in this team with the way we're set up, we'd be creating chances galore in games.

 

But they play in the same position... You're making an argument like he's comparing defenders to midfielders or something, I think pass % has a good take here, not a great take but a good one. 

4 hours ago, DaRick said:

Barkley and Kovacic are both clearly talented players from whom there should be more to come under Sarri's tutelage.

To that end I certainly think we should keep Kovacic - technically he is impeccable and he's been impressively consistent. 

However, I don't think he's actually performed better than Barkley so far. I think that Barkley has been the more likely match-winner because when he's on his forward movement and better finishing makes him a more likely goal threat, plus he's displayed the ability and willingness to provide the defining killer ball. However, on an off-day he can be mediocre, misplacing passes, making poor decisions and leaving the left flank open (though his work ethic in defence has improved). That said, he's had more good days than bad as of late and IMO he should usually start against non-Top 6 sides just because he is more likely to win a match and less likely to face players who are skilled enough to properly exploit his weaknesses on a bad day. 

Kovacic's defensive acumen, work ethic, more consistent decision-making and impeccable technique make him the more consistent player and a much more bankable prospect against Top 6 sides. However, he's not much of a finisher, he doesn't place himself in scoring positions as often as Barkley and while I think he has the ability (see Real Madrid/Inter) he has rarely provided the defining killer ball. He won't really disappoint but he also seems unlikely to win a match against a stubborn side down the table.  

 

 

I guess it's subjective, like I said Barkley definitely has the better numbers so people could make a good argument that Barkley has been the better player.

But for me it's Kova, I think Kova has been a lot better especially technically, Ross has been more adventurous with the ball and more often than not it has paid off. However, it didn't help him last match where he poor, that game was very suited to Kovacic and you saw the difference when Kovacic came on (with Hazard ofc). He's tidier and I think we play better as a team with Kovacic in the side, people might not like what I'm about to say here, but I think we should invest our time into Kovacic more than Barkley, I think Kovacic has a higher potential. 

3 hours ago, Dixon said:

Pass percentage is one of the most meaningless stats in football. Lots of players get high pass percentages because they play it safe, with 5 yard, often  sideways passes in non threatening areaa a huge percentage of the time. A great passer of a football is one like Hoddle, who took risks playing lots of difficult passes to try and create something. The likes of Kovacic are not in the same league  as a Hoddle! If we had a Hoddle level passer in this team with the way we're set up, we'd be creating chances galore in games.

 

If my auntie had a dick she would be my uncle. 

4 hours ago, Dixon said:

A great passer of a football is one like Hoddle, who took risks playing lots of difficult passes to try and create something. The likes of Kovacic are not in the same league  as a Hoddle! If we had a Hoddle level passer in this team with the way we're set up, we'd be creating chances galore in games.

We have Fabregas. 

He’s maybe the best passer I’ve ever seen for Chelsea. 

He doesn’t thrive in the current system as much as Jorginho because Jorginho is a better fit for Sarri’s system. 

Mmmmm @ForeverCarefree. I think it is more that fact that Fabregas is about as fast and agile as my old mum!!

I have to say I agree with Dixon here, pass percentage stats are fairly meaningless. I can recall one season where the player who finished with the highest percentage in the EPL was Darren Fletcher!

3 hours ago, just said:

Mmmmm @ForeverCarefree. I think it is more that fact that Fabregas is about as fast and agile as my old mum!!

I have to say I agree with Dixon here, pass percentage stats are fairly meaningless. I can recall one season where the player who finished with the highest percentage in the EPL was Darren Fletcher!

Which is kind of my point. 

It's all well and good saying we need a player who can do X but there's other things we need to consider as well. 

The way I see it is that although the midfield doesn't seem to have a lot of creativity you have to look at what the rest of the team are doing as well. 

You could have a Fabregas in his prime in our midfield but if he doesn't have the forwards making the right kind of runs in front of him he's not going to be able to flourish. 

Pass stats, I don't think are completely meaningless. They can be an indicator of how good a player he is at retaining possession. So you combine Jorginho's pass completion percentage to his total number of completed passes and you start to see how reliable he is on the ball. 

You can use stats to manipulate any sort of argument, so it's always best to look at more than just a solitary stat.  

Still don't see your point. Move past Kovacic's supposed 1st rate passing stats,  (personally, I don't think it has been that brilliant), and what have we seen that makes him a nailed on starter from a creative perspective? Not too much IMO.

Football evolves and players have to as well. Midfielders, world class midfielders, should have an ability to multi-task. This has been the case for at least a decade. It is great to be good at one aspect; passing, tackling, shooting, dribbling, positioning. OK they won't be great at everything but one aspect isn't enough. So you can pass? Yea, but what are you doing when the other team has the ball? Hence why Fabregas shouldn't be anywhere near our starting line-up.

Kovacic is billed as an attacking, creative midfielder but one who hasn't scored a goal for nearly two years? From what I can make out so far in a Chelsea shirt he is better defensively than offensively.

This is why Drogba and Lamps  had a degree of awesomeness few players can match today. They were world class at their key attributes but also multi-tasked on another level. The days of your floppy haired Chris Waddles standing around with their hands up their sleeves waiting for the ball to given to them, so they can show what they can do are long gone.

Agree with your last point on stats though. Mostly bollox.

 

 

Edited November 9, 20187 yr by just

So what is it that Kovacic is meant to do when starting ahead of Barkely and RLC?

The other two are getting goals and assists and despite appearing to be Sarri’s preferred choice for that LCM position Kovacic to date only has one assist to his name and no goals?

Not sure I would be wanting us to spend £50m+ on him right now rather than trying to develop RLC and Barkely into starters. 

Just now, ForeverCarefree said:

So what is it that Kovacic is meant to do when starting ahead of Barkely and RLC?

The other two are getting goals and assists and despite appearing to be Sarri’s preferred choice for that LCM position Kovacic to date only has one assist to his name and no goals?

Not sure I would be wanting us to spend £50m+ on him right now rather than trying to develop RLC and Barkely into starters. 

facepalm

2 minutes ago, Bigthrobberus said:

facepalm

Nice constructive input there. 

*slow claps*

2 minutes ago, ForeverCarefree said:

Nice constructive input there. 

*slow claps*

rather that than the dribble you come up with.

Edited November 11, 20187 yr by Bigthrobberus

Just now, Bigthrobberus said:

rather that then the dribble you come up with.

What exactly is “dribble” about looking to start a conversation about what the perceived merits are of starting Kovacic ahead of RLC and Barkely?

Your contribution of “face palm” adds nothing. It’s frankly a pathetic response, if you disagree with my post then explain why rather than wasting space with a nonsensical reply. 

The point of the forum is to discuss things not just throw out petty insults. 

3 minutes ago, Bigthrobberus said:

rather that than the dribble you come up with.

He made a good point. It's like I posted in the Barkley thread, in each of the 4 games we have failed to win, Kovacic has started and in all of them and we have struggled to create chances. He's supposed to be an attacking midfielder, but he doesn't contribute to any goals.

From the looks of things, he should be sharing his position with Kante and Barkley and Loftus-Cheek should be competing for the attacking midfield role.