11 minutes ago, Paddy said:

Thanks for taking the time to post this - at last something that I can understand rather than pie charts and graphs which I can not - bloody hell, doesn’t make a great read does it?

£75 million for the potential to be a world class player and without any guarantee of course,  is that honestly the going rate ?

World class, well he’s got a f**king long way to go cause right now, I’m sorry to say, he’s f**king hopeless - I mean he f**ks up the basics - a 5 yard pass under hit every time ffs - no wonder James was giving him the death stare - that’s a potential career ending leg brake !!!? 

We well and truly had our pants pulled down with Kepa, is this going the same way ?

At the risk of being suicidally depressed further, do you have insightful opinions on Werner ? 

Not just the stats but the highlight videos can be misleading as well as it only shows his absolute best moments, and I have to say even then I wasn't all that impressed in the same way a KDB highlight video will blow me away.

I really appreciate the opinion of fans who actually watched him week in week out as it gives a better idea of what kind of a player he is. In the same vein, our opinions of him watching him now trump the stats and graphs etc.

19 minutes ago, Paddy said:

Thanks for taking the time to post this - at last something that I can understand rather than pie charts and graphs which I can not - bloody hell, doesn’t make a great read does it?

£75 million for the potential to be a world class player and without any guarantee of course,  is that honestly the going rate ?

World class, well he’s got a f**king long way to go cause right now, I’m sorry to say, he’s f**king hopeless - I mean he f**ks up the basics - a 5 yard pass under hit every time ffs - no wonder James was giving him the death stare - that’s a potential career ending leg brake !!!? 

We well and truly had our pants pulled down with Kepa, is this going the same way ?

At the risk of being suicidally depressed further, do you have insightful opinions on Werner ? 

Good god. Can you cheer up a little? Havertz will be a good player for us eventually. The only thing that we have to deal with for now is that it's going to take a while until he gets there.

I don't know if he is the "generational talent" that some people claim he is but I am pretty sure he is going to at least turn out to be decent and once the the world returns to normal and clubs throw money around the 75m we paid for him will seem half as bad. 

Edited December 17, 20205 yr by reparto corse

Whether or not he's going to be a good player is up for debate and completely subjective at this point. 

But what we can argue is, should he be starting games? Because if you ask me, Kovacic and Gilmour both would currently do a better job there. I don't see how he should be starting games after the horror performances he's putting in as of late. 

3 minutes ago, sonic90 said:

Not just the stats but the highlight videos can be misleading as well as it only shows his absolute best moments, and I have to say even then I wasn't all that impressed in the same way a KDB highlight video will blow me away.

I really appreciate the opinion of fans who actually watched him week in week out as it gives a better idea of what kind of a player he is. In the same vein, our opinions of him watching him now trump the stats and graphs etc.

yeah, the videos didn’t show too many under-hit passes or bottled tackles I’ll wager ?

If I’m being absolutely honest and I understand that no ones gives a sh*te about my opinion, but I find it all really depressing, I get that no one is ‘born ready’, but I absolutely expect him to at least be competent whilst he gets used to PLnewcountrycovidonly21youngstilllearninggreatpotentialblahblahblah and before he becomes the worldie that has been prophesied by the many on this forum ? 

18 minutes ago, reparto corse said:

Good god. Can you cheer up a little? Havertz will be a good player for us eventually. The only thing that we have to deal with for now is that it's going to take a while until he gets there.

I don't know if he is the "generational talent" that some people claim he is but I am pretty sure he is going to at least turn out to be decent and once the the world returns to normal and clubs throw money around the 75m we paid for him will seem half as bad. 

No, I can’t I’m afraid - look it’s not my money so it’s no personal loss to me - but I don't share your belief that time will necessarily improve things, I have really grave doubts that he can become a player, let only a generational talent ? 

I’m now starting to have the same feeling of dread as I did when Kepa was No.1 when I look at the starting line up and his name appears ?

I hope your right and I’m wrong.

36 minutes ago, Slojo said:

Whether or not he's going to be a good player is up for debate and completely subjective at this point. 

But what we can argue is, should he be starting games? Because if you ask me, Kovacic and Gilmour both would currently do a better job there. I don't see how he should be starting games after the horror performances he's putting in as of late. 

So while Havertz had a poor game against Everton he was subbed off at the same time as Kovacic and when Kovacic came in instead of Havertz against Wolves we looked worse. Doesn't really look like Kovacic is doing that much recently.

Kai at his best can solve a game, Kovacic is in his 3rd season and isn't really having as nearly an impactful role as one would expect from a POTY.

I think Lampard wants to build a team around both Mount and Havertz, he prefers to use both of them even out of position than using someone else, apparently.
He did that to Mount last season when he played 50+ games even as a winger and he already used Havertz in multiple positions. Mount isn't really creating much either in the most recent games but he's still playing every game regardless...

 

 

53 minutes ago, Paddy said:

No, I can’t I’m afraid - look it’s not my money so it’s no personal loss to me - but I don't share your belief that time will necessarily improve things, I have really grave doubts that he can become a player, let only a generational talent ? 

I’m now starting to have the same feeling of dread as I did when Kepa was No.1 when I look at the starting line up and his name appears ?

I hope your right and I’m wrong.

If Havertz was mid 20s then I'd share your feeling of dread. 

I dont think he should be playing as much as he is, but he is only 21 and if you look at each part of his game he has the quality. He can shoot, he can pass, he can run with the ball and he can tackle. He just has no consistency at the moment and seems to lack awareness. 

I think he will get that in time but playing him every week isn't the answer for me. 

11 minutes ago, Gol15 said:

So while Havertz had a poor game against Everton he was subbed off at the same time as Kovacic and when Kovacic came in instead of Havertz against Wolves we looked worse. Doesn't really look like Kovacic is doing that much recently.

Kai at his best can solve a game, Kovacic is in his 3rd season and isn't really having as nearly an impactful role as one would expect from a POTY.

I think Lampard wants to build a team around both Mount and Havertz, he prefers to use both of them even out of position than using someone else, apparently.
He did that to Mount last season when he played 50+ games even as a winger and he already used Havertz in multiple positions. Mount isn't really creating much either in the most recent games but he's still playing every game regardless...

 

 

I can't remember Kovacic losing the ball every time he received it. I do remember him picking up a lot of fouls though, so this "we looked worse" narrative doesn't really work. The team was tired, the game was already set in motion. Facts are, Havertz has been shocking since his return from COVID. That's why it's a good idea to keep him out of the starting lineup for the time being. 

7 minutes ago, bisright1 said:

If Havertz was mid 20s then I'd share your feeling of dread. 

I dont think he should be playing as much as he is, but he is only 21 and if you look at each part of his game he has the quality. He can shoot, he can pass, he can run with the ball and he can tackle. He just has no consistency at the moment and seems to lack awareness. 

I think he will get that in time but playing him every week isn't the answer for me. 

If he cost £25 million I wouldn’t have such a problem with taking a punt on his ‘potential’ , but I was expecting so much more bang for the bucks we paid for him ( weren’t we all ??) and that he would be a reasonable player with growth to come, - notwithstanding PLnewcountrycovidonly21stilllearninggreatpotentialblahblahblah - I mean, he’s been truly truly awful this past couple of games and in those matches , he didn’t shoot, he definitely can’t pass without it being under hit , he can’t run with the ball without losing it (often very easily) and he doesn’t successfully tackle either and if he carries on under hitting passes to his team mates , someone will get injured.

It’s not his fault that we paid what we did for him, but I am so underwhelmed with what I’ve seen from him from the get go and right now I, personally, just don’t see this potential, he doesn’t do the basics even? and the trouble is his piss poor performances have an effect on the teams moral - did you see the looks that James gave him a couple of times v Everton ?!

I think I’m guilty of believing all the hype - that’s what spending £75 million on a player does to you - and although it’s not my money, what’s spent is spent and unless it’s recouped, it can’t be spent again so that means less or no money to spend next transfer window and I wouldn’t be surprised if we are getting a reputation of being a soft touch in the transfer market ??

16 minutes ago, Slojo said:

I can't remember Kovacic losing the ball every time he received it. I do remember him picking up a lot of fouls though, so this "we looked worse" narrative doesn't really work. The team was tired, the game was already set in motion. Facts are, Havertz has been shocking since his return from COVID. That's why it's a good idea to keep him out of the starting lineup for the time being. 

That argument about how the team was tired and all, doesn't really work in the favor of Kovacic as he had fresh legs but we looked worse with him and lost the game, it's not like he was a difference maker in any way, shape or form... So scapegoating Havertz when it was a simple counter-attack that lost us the game is the narrative that doesn't really work.

I prefer to see Havertz in his best position but Lampard prefers to just have him in the lineup regardless if he will be wide or more deep in the midfield, I would totally play Havertz as the AM/CAM/SS behind Werner exclusively. But Lampard used Mount last season as the LW, AM, CM and is doing a similar thing with Havertz this season, this is why I said that I think that Lampard is building a team around them.

I see that while Ziyech is injured and when Pulisic is still a bit struggling with his injury that it makes sense to play Havertz because if he gets to have a good game we will be a much more dangerous team, while if Lampard plays Kovacic he most likely won't create much in the final third.

Yeah let's not scapegoat a guy who put in a 2/10 performance but blame it on a guy who came off the bench with 20 minutes left. Great logic as always, stick to your graphs. 

19 minutes ago, Slojo said:

Yeah let's not scapegoat a guy who put in a 2/10 performance but blame it on a guy who came off the bench with 20 minutes left. Great logic as always, stick to your graphs. 

I didn't blame Kovacic but fact is he did really nothing in the recent games either. You're still wrong for scapegoating Havertz as if everyone else is just at their top game...

Looks like you closed your eyes when Podence first took Chilwell on a ride and then James, only to score on Mendy's near post which he should have covered. And Havertz wasn't even in the game when Wolves scored the second goal so YES let's scapegoat Kai anyway because... IDK you have posters of Kovacic all over your room?  LOL

How about laying off some of the responsibility on an new player? Kovacic has been here for 3 seasons, last season's POTY and has he stepped up his game yet?

How come he after 2 seasons, going on his 3rd here, never showed that he can actually do that role that Havertz plays?

Never speak to me about logic until you learn what that word means, your logic is to scapegoat Havertz for the recent losses, as if Mendy gifting Everton a penalty and Wolves scoring in the last minute on a counter attack while Havertz wasn't even playing is even close to any rational or logical conclusion 

Edited December 17, 20205 yr by Gol15

32 minutes ago, Paddy said:

If he cost £25 million I wouldn’t have such a problem with taking a punt on his ‘potential’ , but I was expecting so much more bang for the bucks we paid for him ( weren’t we all ??) and that he would be a reasonable player with growth to come, - notwithstanding PLnewcountrycovidonly21stilllearninggreatpotentialblahblahblah - I mean, he’s been truly truly awful this past couple of games and in those matches , he didn’t shoot, he definitely can’t pass without it being under hit , he can’t run with the ball without losing it (often very easily) and he doesn’t successfully tackle either and if he carries on under hitting passes to his team mates , someone will get injured.

It’s not his fault that we paid what we did for him, but I am so underwhelmed with what I’ve seen from him from the get go and right now I, personally, just don’t see this potential, he doesn’t do the basics even? and the trouble is his piss poor performances have an effect on the teams moral - did you see the looks that James gave him a couple of times v Everton ?!

I think I’m guilty of believing all the hype - that’s what spending £75 million on a player does to you - and although it’s not my money, what’s spent is spent and unless it’s recouped, it can’t be spent again so that means less or no money to spend next transfer window and I wouldn’t be surprised if we are getting a reputation of being a soft touch in the transfer market ??

I don't care what we paid but what we paid wasn't a punt and we weren't a soft touch. 

You don't become a starter in the German national team at 20 without showing something special and those players don't cost 25m. I trust that our scouts and the German national team have some ability to know what they are doing. 

If he doesn't make it, it will be one of the most surprising things for me in football. I can't think of other examples where a players ability declined so significantly at that age without an injury. Even if he performs at the level he did in Germany last year, he will be great for us. So I have to believe that he will adjust and improve from his current level. 

Right now he has looked sh*te and should be dropped. He needs to fight his way back into the team from the bench. 

3 hours ago, bisright1 said:

I don't care what we paid but what we paid wasn't a punt and we weren't a soft touch. 

You don't become a starter in the German national team at 20 without showing something special and those players don't cost 25m. I trust that our scouts and the German national team have some ability to know what they are doing. 

If he doesn't make it, it will be one of the most surprising things for me in football. I can't think of other examples where a players ability declined so significantly at that age without an injury. Even if he performs at the level he did in Germany last year, he will be great for us. So I have to believe that he will adjust and improve from his current level. 

Right now he has looked sh*te and should be dropped. He needs to fight his way back into the team from the bench. 

I’m staggered that you would make that statement to further your point, it’s completely meaningless and nonsensical, who knows what were these guys worth when they made their England international debuts as TEENAGERS ; 

Luke Shaw - Jack Wilshere - Micah Richards - Theo Walcott - Phil Jones - Calum Chambers etc etc

Careers since, mostly blighted by injuries, but like Havertz they were injury free when beginning their international lives and all of them presumably showing something special to get selected? They haven’t amounted to much since though , have they ?

As for the German national team , they see something in Rudiger that FL doesn’t and someone must have been involved with the signings of Kepa, Bakayoko, Drinkwater, Veron, SWP, Morata - do you imagine that it might have something to do with the same scouts who you put your trust in ?

Is your statement ‘......what we paid wasn't a punt and we weren't a soft touch.’  a statement of fact or is that just your opinion ? Only, if it’s factual, how do you know, crystal ball, time capsule, visitation from the CFC ghost of Christmas’s future ? or is it just a feeling in your water? 

.........So I have to believe that he will adjust and improve from his current level. You keep believing and I’ll just keep me fingers crossed !

Edited December 17, 20205 yr by Paddy

55 minutes ago, Paddy said:

I’m staggered that you would make that statement to further your point, it’s completely meaningless and nonsensical, who knows what were these guys worth when they made their England international debuts as TEENAGERS ; 

Luke Shaw - Jack Wilshere - Micah Richards - Theo Walcott - Phil Jones - Calum Chambers etc etc

Wilshire and walcott after their breakthrough seasons cost £75m+ in today's money. No doubt. Walcott and Wilshire though both ruined by injuries. What's Havertz excuse?

The others are defenders and different. Although Micah would cost 75m if someone bought him today as a 20 yo !

 

Quote

Careers since, mostly blighted by injuries, but like Havertz they were injury free when beginning their international lives and all of them presumably showing something special to get selected? They haven’t amounted to much since though , have they ?

Yeah I don't think you are disagreeing with me. I said Havertz was quality and now he's not and he can't blame an injury.

Quote

As for the German national team , they see something in Rudiger that FL doesn’t and someone must have been involved with the signings of Kepa, Bakayoko, Drinkwater, Veron, SWP, Morata - do you imagine that it might have something to do with the same scouts who you put your trust in ?

Veron and SWP are weird examples. But scouts make mistakes yes. But this is a player who was scoring and assisting for fun last year

Quote

Is your statement ‘......what we paid wasn't a punt and we weren't a soft touch.’  a statement of fact or is that just your opinion ? Only, if it’s factual, how do you know, crystal ball, time capsule, visitation from the CFC ghost of Christmas’s future ? or is it just a feeling in your water? 

You don't understand my point. When you buy something, you pay it's worth at the time. Havertz worth at the time was 75m. We weren't "had" because the seller couldn't have known he would become sh*t. We paid for both current quality and for his age. His performances last year mean he is worth at least 50m in that summer. His age adds 25m to that. That's he's sh*t now can't factor into his worth in the summer because the summer is gone. It wasn't a punt any more than buying any player is a punt. Any more than chilwell, silva, werner, ziyech were punts. 

 

Quote

.........So I have to believe that he will adjust and improve from his current level. You keep believing and I’ll just keep me fingers crossed !

Yup. He's f**king sh*t at the moment. I just don't see how someone goes from being the quality he was last year to a player with zero positional sense (his main problem I think) and a brain running half the speed of everyone else. 

Edited December 18, 20205 yr by bisright1

16 minutes ago, bisright1 said:

Wilshire and walcott after their breakthrough seasons cost £75m+ in today's money. No doubt. Walcott and Wilshire though both ruined by injuries. What's Havertz excuse?

 

Oh I dont know....that he's a 21 year old s fresh off catching a virus that shutdown the world and has a known effect of long term fatigue whilst playing his first season not only in a new team, not only in a new league, but mainly in a different position than he was used to........and not a 28 or 31 year old whos career trajectory was ruined by injury.....would that fit the bill for an excuse for Havertz?

 

Ya, he's been disappointing since the international break..... but he has more years/seasons ahead of him in his career than he has bad games in a Chelsea kit behind him..... so I'm not going to talk like his career has been a disappointment when he is still in the beginning stages of a senior men's football career,

 

I dont even think Havertz was that great before covid, I think its abit of a myth because his that bad now. Yeah he had the odd moment and the hattrick against Barnsley reserves but he wasn't great.

Personally think the covid thing is a lame excuse now, Chelsea fc have some of the nest doctors in the world and if he wasn't fit he wouldnt be playing, end off. Like I said I dont think he has been playing that well overall this season before or after covid.

5 hours ago, Ernie_blue said:

I dont even think Havertz was that great before covid, I think its abit of a myth because his that bad now. Yeah he had the odd moment and the hattrick against Barnsley reserves but he wasn't great.

Personally think the covid thing is a lame excuse now, Chelsea fc have some of the nest doctors in the world and if he wasn't fit he wouldnt be playing, end off. Like I said I dont think he has been playing that well overall this season before or after covid.

Even if he didn't have anything, for a professional to just stop training for a few weeks and then wait from late October till the start of December in order to start a game again isn't optimal specially since there was no pre-season and it's not like he was already familiar with the club, league and so on.

I guess it's just too hard to accept that he's our new player that is also 21 years old which means that he will need to adjust and to become more consistent, he also needs time to fully integrate into the system - he was played outside of his comfort zone for more than a few games but make no mistake the short time period from the end of September till mid-October when he was our attacking midfielder he played well, during that period he had 3 games in a row as the attacking midfielder where he either scored or assisted, he made his first assist after being at the club for only around 3 weeks and without a pre-season, so to think that he was never great or that "he never showed anything" is being willfully blind, full stop there.

You're trying really hard to make Lampard look like a fraud for signing Havertz but nobody thought that Havertz would automatically start a strong season, it was pretty clear that for most of us it was a relief when we finally finished with his signing.

7 hours ago, Barry Bridges said:

Oh I dont know....that he's a 21 year old s fresh off catching a virus that shutdown the world and has a known effect of long term fatigue whilst playing his first season not only in a new team, not only in a new league, but mainly in a different position than he was used to........and not a 28 or 31 year old whos career trajectory was ruined by injury.....would that fit the bill for an excuse for Havertz?

 

Ya, he's been disappointing since the international break..... but he has more years/seasons ahead of him in his career than he has bad games in a Chelsea kit behind him..... so I'm not going to talk like his career has been a disappointment when he is still in the beginning stages of a senior men's football career,

 

I don't think he was great pre covid and if covid is the factor then why does frank keep starting him. (Or as one weirdo on this forum says, why does he keep selecting himself)

 

 

 

I am going to give him time because I have to believe that will work because there is no explanation to me as to why he's been so ineffective all season. He has to get better because it doesn't make any sense for him not to. 

17 hours ago, yorkleyblue said:

Don't be so silly.  If I'm not fit enough to go to work, I phone my boss and let her know,  We actually have a sickness reporting procedure formalised in our employment handbook. 

Same thing applies here.

I don't know how fit or unfit Havertz is, but when we have people in here claiming that he is unable to pass to a team-mate in the open 5 yards away, make a simple tackle or generally look like a professional footballer because he is still not recovered from Covid, then he needs to phone in sick for a while.

If he's playing like I would because of other reasons, then fair enough, but that isn't the excuse being bandied around by his "number one fan" and chief statistician.

I find amusing that you are so hard on Havertz and still defended William so strongly, even his corners!! And don't get me wrong, I am not one of the antiWilliam brigade and also defended him, as I do any Chelsea player. Don't be so hard on our new lad, he is now a Chelsea player and whether he plays or not, deserves our support.

PS - regarding the sick leave, you can't phone your line manager and say that you feel wrong and you are going to miss several weeks of work. One day or two days, you can, for longer you need a doctor's notice, and I suppose Chelsea's doctors have been checking up on him and they make the call of whether he is fit to play or not.

8 hours ago, bisright1 said:

Wilshire and walcott after their breakthrough seasons cost £75m+ in today's money. No doubt. Walcott and Wilshire though both ruined by injuries. What's Havertz excuse?

The others are defenders and different. Although Micah would cost 75m if someone bought him today as a 20 yo !

 

Yeah I don't think you are disagreeing with me. I said Havertz was quality and now he's not and he can't blame an injury.

Veron and SWP are weird examples. But scouts make mistakes yes. But this is a player who was scoring and assisting for fun last year

You don't understand my point. When you buy something, you pay it's worth at the time. Havertz worth at the time was 75m. We weren't "had" because the seller couldn't have known he would become sh*t. We paid for both current quality and for his age. His performances last year mean he is worth at least 50m in that summer. His age adds 25m to that. That's he's sh*t now can't factor into his worth in the summer because the summer is gone. It wasn't a punt any more than buying any player is a punt. Any more than chilwell, silva, werner, ziyech were punts. 

 

Yup. He's f**king sh*t at the moment. I just don't see how someone goes from being the quality he was last year to a player with zero positional sense (his main problem I think) and a brain running half the speed of everyone else. 

Morning.

Unless I’ve misunderstood, the whole premise of your argument seems to centre around Havertz playing for his country at 20 and being ‘valued’ at £75 million , therefore he WILL be a superstar - does that ALWAYS workout ? 

The point of citing England national team teenager debutants was to have as a direct comparison as is possible to Havertz with players, irrespective of the positions that they play in, that were supposed ‘generational talents’ of their time, whose fuss and bluster failed to materialise and the reason I did this was to counter your complete certainty surrounding KH and his future - NB. I did ask you to confirm your source of certainty, flux capacitor operated DeLorean, crystal ball, visitation from the underworld etc and since you haven’t mentioned them I assume that you don't have an undeniable source ? So whilst I admire your conviction, you are simply guessing and hoping that he will , you don’t know no more than I or anyone else on this board - and that’s my issue with your posts, you don’t do maybe or might and I struggle with being pontificated at by someone who knows no more than the average Joe.

Havertz was never worth the money we paid for him - pants well and truly pulled down.

So for the record, I am incredibly disappointed with what Havertz has shown so far whilst playing for Chelsea, I am amazed at, for a professional footballer,  how poor his touch, control and general game is, I expected so much more for £75 million and, sadly, I am struggling to see the potential ?

Will he make it, f**ked if I know - no one does - I’ll keep my fingers crossed but it ain’t looking good imo ? 

I’m done with this particular thread, so I have nothing more to say with you, the last word, should you wish, is all yours.
 

2 hours ago, RMH said:

I find amusing that you are so hard on Havertz and still defended William so strongly, even his corners!! And don't get me wrong, I am not one of the antiWilliam brigade and also defended him, as I do any Chelsea player. Don't be so hard on our new lad, he is now a Chelsea player and whether he plays or not, deserves our support.

PS - regarding the sick leave, you can't phone your line manager and say that you feel wrong and you are going to miss several weeks of work. One day or two days, you can, for longer you need a doctor's notice, and I suppose Chelsea's doctors have been checking up on him and they make the call of whether he is fit to play or not.

I think you are misrepresenting my posts on Willian, and especially his corner taking.  I doubt that even the young lad who googles the buggery out of Havertz every day could find a post of mine defending Willian's corner taking. 

My view on Willian was always that he had a role in the team that didn't actually suit the role that some people thought he should be performing, and that, consequently, they slated him for every missed pass or over-run dribble.  FFS, we even had some tit in here celebrating in the match-day thread because Willian got injured.  Just consider that for a minute.  a so-called Chelsea "fan" coming onto an internet forum during the match JUST to post a big cheer because one of our own players got injured and had to go off the pitch.

I'll get my stats-stalker onto it if you like, but Willian's stats for us were consistent with his stats throughout his entire career.  That didn't satisfy some people who decided that his only role was as a goal-scorer and he was failing in that duty, the same people by the way who still derided him when he did have a decent season, or was voted player of the season and players' player of the season.

I support Havertz, I just don't think he should be anywhere near the first team at the moment - he needs to get his head right at the very least.

Oh, I didn't start the sick leave thing.  Some tit said that the reason he has been so incredibly underwhelming this season is that he had Covid.  My opinion was and is that if he hasn't recovered he shouldn't be playing, and he could have called in sick until he had.  The amount of time is neither here nor there. 

If the Chelsea doctors say he is fit and fine, that's great, but then googling teenagers can't use "he hasn't fully recovered from Covid" as an excuse for not being able to play football any better than I would.

1 hour ago, Paddy said:

Morning.

Unless I’ve misunderstood, the whole premise of your argument seems to centre around Havertz playing for his country at 20 and being ‘valued’ at £75 million , therefore he WILL be a superstar - does that ALWAYS workout ? 

The point of citing England national team teenager debutants was to have as a direct comparison as is possible to Havertz with players, irrespective of the positions that they play in, that were supposed ‘generational talents’ of their time, whose fuss and bluster failed to materialise and the reason I did this was to counter your complete certainty surrounding KH and his future - NB. I did ask you to confirm your source of certainty, flux capacitor operated DeLorean, crystal ball, visitation from the underworld etc and since you haven’t mentioned them I assume that you don't have an undeniable source ? So whilst I admire your conviction, you are simply guessing and hoping that he will , you don’t know no more than I or anyone else on this board - and that’s my issue with your posts, you don’t do maybe or might and I struggle with being pontificated at by someone who knows no more than the average Joe.

Havertz was never worth the money we paid for him - pants well and truly pulled down.

So for the record, I am incredibly disappointed with what Havertz has shown so far whilst playing for Chelsea, I am amazed at, for a professional footballer,  how poor his touch, control and general game is, I expected so much more for £75 million and, sadly, I am struggling to see the potential ?

Will he make it, f**ked if I know - no one does - I’ll keep my fingers crossed but it ain’t looking good imo ? 

I’m done with this particular thread, so I have nothing more to say with you, the last word, should you wish, is all yours.
 

I think we agree you just don't understand my point. 

Havertz was worth 75m when we bought him because he was quality. Everyone agreed with that. It's not bakayoko or kepa when there was debate. 

He is however not quality at the moment.

Those are both for me, facts. And facts I think you would agree with. 

I believe he will get back to his previous quality, because I can't think of an example of a footballer who collapses so much in quality without an injury. Walcott and Wilshire were two examples you gave, both players who would be world class if they didn't have their injuries. Because they were quality. That doesn't leave a player without a reason. 

Havertz had covid, but he didn't look great before that imo. 

So I'm hoping (not certain) it's a blip. It's something mental. It's covid recovery. No idea what it could be, but I have to hope he gets back to his previous quality because there's no explanation for why it would desert him forever. 

And in the mean time. Lampard needs to bench him and he needs to fight his way back into the team from the bench. Again, we agree on that too 

Edited December 18, 20205 yr by bisright1

I caught one of the German matches when we were showing interest.

He was playing CF and had just come back from an injury and just looked ordinary.

I was hoping it was a bad day or he was playing himself back to match fitness and thought our club must know what they were doing in chasing him.

Yet he has only been ordinary for us too., I am getting a bad feeling about Kai.

Perhaps an FA Cup appearance where he is given a free role might give us a glimmer of his potential.

 

54 minutes ago, yorkleyblue said:

I think you are misrepresenting my posts on Willian, and especially his corner taking.  I doubt that even the young lad who googles the buggery out of Havertz every day could find a post of mine defending Willian's corner taking. 

My view on Willian was always that he had a role in the team that didn't actually suit the role that some people thought he should be performing, and that, consequently, they slated him for every missed pass or over-run dribble.  FFS, we even had some tit in here celebrating in the match-day thread because Willian got injured.  Just consider that for a minute.  a so-called Chelsea "fan" coming onto an internet forum during the match JUST to post a big cheer because one of our own players got injured and had to go off the pitch.

I'll get my stats-stalker onto it if you like, but Willian's stats for us were consistent with his stats throughout his entire career.  That didn't satisfy some people who decided that his only role was as a goal-scorer and he was failing in that duty, the same people by the way who still derided him when he did have a decent season, or was voted player of the season and players' player of the season.

I support Havertz, I just don't think he should be anywhere near the first team at the moment - he needs to get his head right at the very least.

Oh, I didn't start the sick leave thing.  Some tit said that the reason he has been so incredibly underwhelming this season is that he had Covid.  My opinion was and is that if he hasn't recovered he shouldn't be playing, and he could have called in sick until he had.  The amount of time is neither here nor there. 

If the Chelsea doctors say he is fit and fine, that's great, but then googling teenagers can't use "he hasn't fully recovered from Covid" as an excuse for not being able to play football any better than I would.

Who said that, where and when?