41 minutes ago, Slojo said:

Obviously, that goes without saying. But saying we would've lost without Kante when we have a better win % without him in the side is pretty illogical, especially after he just had a bad game to top it off. 
 

I'm still trying to get my head around your logic here. In what way does our historical win % with Kante in the side have anything to do with us drawing today? Also, I'm very skeptical of your claim that we have won more games without him that with him.

47 minutes ago, dkw said:

Ah, the old players should never be tired argument is back, what fun.... 

Our players ceratinly shouldn't be any more tired than any other team playing over the festive period. Same as the old favourite line being trotted out of the team of youngsters learning as they go, when the stats seem to say pretty much all of the teams have roughly the same average ages of their starting line ups, around the 24 - 24.5 years average.

1 hour ago, bluedave said:

I'm still trying to get my head around your logic here. In what way does our historical win % with Kante in the side have anything to do with us drawing today? Also, I'm very skeptical of your claim that we have won more games without him that with him.

Go read the conversation. 

Also we have lost 7 games which Kante has played in, and won 5 games he's played in. When Kante was injured we won 6/7 games, the one game we didn't win was the 2-2 draw with Sheffield. 

I'm not planting all of this on Kante, you'll have to go read the conversation for the full context, this arguement is purely about somebody claiming that if it weren't for Kante we would've lost the match. 

Edited January 1, 20206 yr by Slojo

2 hours ago, Nibs said:

Is that the same Isco who has been more inconsistent than Willian throughout his whole career and that's in an easier league than the PL. He is exactly the sort of player we want to avoid at all costs.

Agree on the rest although a bit harsh on Mount. His goals have dried up a bit but he was fantastic against Spurs. All these young players will struggle to perform well every game - even Tammy isn't great every game (but is pretty much our only striker option right now).

 

 

 

To be fair your probably right about Isco, I don’t know why probably because I was annoyed I forgot all about RLC who I’d prefer to see over Isco any day. 

That was a pathetic offensive display from all concerned. One game Frank makes changes that help, another he makes them that hinder. CHO was poor. Kovacic woeful.

I am happy to be able to, for a very rare occasion, to praise Kepa for his performance today. He made some brilliant saves and showed himself willing to come and try and deal with crosses.

Defense was decent though owed it to Kepa a fair bit.

Our midfield was appalling in the second half. Surrendered the ball far too often.

Our attackers though. Every one of you were cr*p, do you not know how to work as a team? Rubbish finishing, rubbish decision making, rubbish final ball. Were you all up late drinking last night?

From Tammy not putting Willian through in the first half, to Pulisic missing the target every time he shot or crossed, to Mount not linking up play well enough and making poor choices, to Willian going AWOL second half, to CHO being all one trick and missing a glorious late chance to give us an undeserved win.

All around a poor start to the football new year.

Credit to Brighton who kept pushing, kept trying and scored a special goal. They deserved it.

39 minutes ago, Slojo said:

Go read the conversation. 

Also we have lost 7 games which Kante has played in, and won 5 games he's played in. When Kante was injured we won 6/7 games, the one game we didn't win was the 2-2 draw with Sheffield. 

I'm not planting all of this on Kante, you'll have to go read the conversation for the full context, this arguement is purely about somebody claiming that if it weren't for Kante we would've lost the match. 

Still none the wiser. You said that Loz's belief that we would have lost if Kante wan't playing today is 'illogical' based on results from weeks/months ago, which is in itself illogical. I'm not sure if I agree with the claim that we would have lost without Kante (maybe so but that's impossible to prove) but the result today is determined only by the performance today and has nothing to do with this fishy historical win % that you have dug up.

Also, I didn't know Kante has only played 12 games for us. For some reason it feels like he's been around a lot longer than that.

Still none the wiser. You said that Loz's belief that we would have lost if Kante wan't playing today is 'illogical' based on results from weeks/months ago, which is in itself illogical. I'm not sure if I agree with the claim that we would have lost without Kante (maybe so but that's impossible to prove) but the result today is determined only by the performance today and has nothing to do with this fishy historical win % that you have dug up.

Also, I didn't know Kante has only played 12 games for us. For some reason it feels like he's been around a lot longer than that.

You're right, it is utterly illogical. I do believe we would have lost today without Kante playing for the reasons I've set out in other posts, largely that he prevented a lot of balls coming into the box - something we are very poor at defending. If any of the options had been picked instead of Kante I don't think they, combined with what Jorghino and Mount's style of play would have offered our defence, and especially full backs, any protection.

 

However obviously I can't prove it. It's just my belief.

 

Win ratio in other games is ridiculous. Without even bothering to check stats from this season I'm guessing that logic also means we should also drop Rudiger.

 

Lucky for us Wolves and Spurs under performed at two sides they should be beating.

Hopefully United do the same. Though it would be us getting out of jail again. Our attackers must do better. We all know our defense must improve but today is not on them for our dropped points.

Be fair people and let's not pick on our favorite players to pick on. Rewatch the game if you need to but Frank echoed what I saw. Poor choices made in the final third cost us two points.

That was not just Willian, or Abraham, or Pulisic, or Mount, or CHO, or Kante, or Jorginho or Kovacic, or James or Dave.

It was as a team collective that going forward they were all shockingly poor. No quality, poor choices made.

Handles the minefield well...........

 

27 minutes ago, bluedave said:

Still none the wiser. You said that Loz's belief that we would have lost if Kante wan't playing today is 'illogical' based on results from weeks/months ago, which is in itself illogical. I'm not sure if I agree with the claim that we would have lost without Kante (maybe so but that's impossible to prove) but the result today is determined only by the performance today and has nothing to do with this fishy historical win % that you have dug up.

Also, I didn't know Kante has only played 12 games for us. For some reason it feels like he's been around a lot longer than that.

Clearly talking about this season, but it's clear you've just got an axe to grind with me here so I won't even bother engaging further with it. 

24 minutes ago, loz said:

You're right, it is utterly illogical. I do believe we would have lost today without Kante playing for the reasons I've set out in other posts, largely that he prevented a lot of balls coming into the box - something we are very poor at defending. If any of the options had been picked instead of Kante I don't think they, combined with what Jorghino and Mount's style of play would have offered our defence, and especially full backs, any protection.

 

However obviously I can't prove it. It's just my belief.

 

Win ratio in other games is ridiculous. Without even bothering to check stats from this season I'm guessing that logic also means we should also drop Rudiger.

 

Yeah because saying we would've lost without him is totally logical, despite the stats and his subpar performance. 

19 minutes ago, axman2526 said:

Be fair people and let's not pick on our favorite players to pick on. Rewatch the game if you need to but Frank echoed what I saw. Poor choices made in the final third cost us two points.

That was not just Willian, or Abraham, or Pulisic, or Mount, or CHO, or Kante, or Jorginho or Kovacic, or James or Dave.

It was as a team collective that going forward they were all shockingly poor. No quality, poor choices made.

 

You seem to point all the fingers at the players.

If the team is collectively performing poorly on a consistent basis, the person you should be looking at for answers is the manager. 

Sure Frank is young, sure he's been only the manager for 2 years, sure he's a club legend, sure he can improve and gets better. BUT so far, he has yet to demonstrate that can learn from games he lost weeks and months ago.

 

 

21 minutes ago, Strider6003 said:

Handles the minefield well...........

 

 

I haven't watch a lot of post game interviews from Lamp, but man he handled those questions extremely well. A very sharp and intelligent guy.

Hope he get this team to their winning ways earlier in the season. That team was so much fun to watch.

 

 

6 hours ago, coco said:

Remember a game last over 90 minutes, and the last 10 mins are the most crucial, apart from the league leaders, no team has a better last 10 than us this season. So if we make our usual slow start, remember not to make any stupid comments that will come back to bite you.

Ironic that they scored in the last 10 minutes LOL

Just now, Sexyfootball said:

Ironic that they scored in the last 10 minutes LOL

commentators curse, ?

1 minute ago, coco said:

commentators curse, ?

You're in the clear ... everyone is blaming Brutos ?

21 minutes ago, Sexyfootball said:

You're in the clear ... everyone is blaming Brutos ?

Lol why?

1 minute ago, axman2526 said:

Lol why?

See page 3 of this thread ...  ?

Fed up of watching and saying it, Why o f**kin why do we keep passing it across the back, pas ,pass, pass back to keeper loose possession, pass, pass, pass. Boring f**kin boring, even the players look bored of it. 

Boring rant over.

Edited January 1, 20206 yr by Kev56

1 hour ago, axman2526 said:

Lucky for us Wolves and Spurs under performed at two sides they should be beating.

Hopefully United do the same. Though it would be us getting out of jail again. Our attackers must do better. We all know our defense must improve but today is not on them for our dropped points.

The thing is teams can go on a run just look at the Saints on this form table:

(https://www.soccerstats.com/latest.asp?league=england)

31 minutes ago, Kev56 said:

Fed up of watching and saying it, Why o f**kin why do we keep passing it across the back, pas ,pass, pass back to keeper loose possession, pass, pass, pass. Boring f**kin boring, even the players look bored of it. 

Boring rant over.

 

And why do you think the team is playing like that?

 

4 hours ago, dkw said:

Ah, the old players should never be tired argument is back, what fun.... 

I always enjoy the inevitable exposé how many hours someone is working without complaining  It's practically a Monty Python sketch.

There's a lot of negativity towards CHO  but for him to actually have a chance he needs to play regularly from the start and not a bench warmer.... Especially after signing that big money contract. 

I'd he looked good today and given longer would have caused a lot of problems. 

I don't think Zouma and rubi should be a partnership they are both big stecky players and it's clearly not working. 

James is good but is showing his inexperience with stupid mistakes. 

Mount and tammy are unlucky at times but I wouldn't fault them. 

I don't think lamps is to blame as the players are not pulling their weight. How's can we tear spurs apart one week then play like that the next??

 

12 minutes ago, Scottish_spink said:

There's a lot of negativity towards CHO  but for him to actually have a chance he needs to play regularly from the start and not a bench warmer....

 

 

He sucks, let's start him every game so "maybe" he can become good. That's absolute MADNESS. 

Earned your time on the pitch, your big fat contract does not buy you automatic starts. You need to earn the respect of the players, of the manager, by producing on the pitch.

Work hard in training, produce as a sub, then you will get starts. This is exactly what Lamp had stated many times.

BTW, he started 2 games ago against Southampton and was absolute trash. He should have been yanked at the half in that game.

Edited January 1, 20206 yr by haviet1