14 minutes ago, Bob stark said:

Back 3, back 4 really does not matter in term of how fast do or how offensive you want to be.  

For me it does mate, if we look at characteristics of the players on the pitch, having two cbs vs 3 does influence the pace of the play. Notice how often the ball gets recycled from left to right and so on when Rudiger/Christensen/Azpil will pass to the opposite centre back and vice versa. 

Compared to City or Liverpool that don't have that option as much, their free man tends to be further forward. We always have a spare cb to help in the build up which is why often we play backwards to find our spare man. I would much rather have a 3rd midfielder spare.

Back to characteristics not always but usually a CB is primarily in the team for their defensive skills not their ball playing skills ofc in modern football everyone from the GK to the striker needs to be comfortable with all facets of play. 

You can argue our cbs are ball playing, yes in the regard they can recycle possession and play possession football, but not in the sense that they play at a quicker tempo with their passes. A kind of skill you would associate with more forward positioned players.

 

 

12 hours ago, venom2011 said:

Genuine question - how is it possible that you apparently watch the team 'week after week' and are judging what you see as 'defensive sh*t'? I would just love to understand how such an opinion is even possible. 

We all have opinions....All I see is a defensive style of football except when it comes to teams that are so poor e.g. Norwich where scoring umpteen goals really doesn't prove much.  I'm not saying he has to go mad offensively and ignore the defensive side of our game. IMO has built a team tactically (although that might be questionable of late) that will be hard to score against, while not attacking teams that are in the top half of the league which are your main rivals; he'd rather sit back and pick a team of 6+ defensive players and hope that we get a break AND hope that one of his forwards is actually capable of putting the ball in the net.  He's got the players frightened to lose the ball so much so that they'd rather pass back to Mendy when they are on the opponents 18 yard box rather than keep playing forward or have a shot at least on goal....or they keep cycling the ball around the box until it eventually goes back to Mendy anyway and its f**king boring as hell to watch.  Other teams with half our supposed talent play better football than we have since his arrival, and I'm not talking Liverpool and City here.  We have stunk the joint out at home this season, SB used to be a ground no-one was going away with 3 points, now..come and help yourself.   To me he's missing the big calls, non use of subs that may change a game.It appears that he's frightened of losing and doesn't trust half his players. He's a professional coach / Manager, getting millions in the process to sort it out, and while he may have won the CL, which all of us enjoyed, he hasn't taken us forward from there.  Injuries for me don't come into it; all teams have injuries it's how you cope thereafter, he has a 23+ man squad and IMO he's not using them to our advantage by selecting players that are not fully fit over those that are but are out of favour with him....I don't need him to go, but if there is not improvement next season, and there has to be because Newcastle, Spurs, Utd, Arsenal and even West Ham will all improve, getting a top 4 place isn't going to be as easy as it was this year...and even then we are hanging on by our fingernails. 

Kounde is our old transfer target but Perisic sounds like a strange one.

Are we really looking for a 33 year old just cause Tuchel wants to play with the back 3 next season? The PL isn't like Serie A, he gets 1 injury at any point and it could take him half the season to come back.

We do need wing-backs if we're looking to continue playing this 3-4-2-1 but I was hoping for someone new, someone younger and fresh.

24 minutes ago, Gol15 said:

Kounde is our old transfer target but Perisic sounds like a strange one.

Are we really looking for a 33 year old just cause Tuchel wants to play with the back 3 next season? The PL isn't like Serie A, he gets 1 injury at any point and it could take him half the season to come back.

We do need wing-backs if we're looking to continue playing this 3-4-2-1 but I was hoping for someone new, someone younger and fresh.

I believe Perisic is just made up by press,and it won't happen. 

2 hours ago, jack_super_class said:

The same Kounde thats part of the best defence in La Liga?.

The same Kounde who was in the LA Liga team of the season last year.

David Luiz won a team of the season before. 
 

Im curious to see if anyone has actually watched Kounde regularly. 

2 hours ago, LongtimerLurker said:

For me it does mate, if we look at characteristics of the players on the pitch, having two cbs vs 3 does influence the pace of the play. Notice how often the ball gets recycled from left to right and so on when Rudiger/Christensen/Azpil will pass to the opposite centre back and vice versa. 

Compared to City or Liverpool that don't have that option as much, their free man tends to be further forward. We always have a spare cb to help in the build up which is why often we play backwards to find our spare man. I would much rather have a 3rd midfielder spare.

You hit the nail here. I think our match against Leeds highlights this. 

Notice when Alonso and James got the ball in wide areas. The middle was clogged because both Kovacic and Jorginho were man marked. The option to Pulisic and Mount further forward was also marked, this then led to either Alonso or James recycling it back to the CBs to go and try the other side. Rinse and repeat. 

This issue is because we have a third CB sitting when that CB could be another option in midfield through the middle. It was only in the 2nd half where Jorginho managed to catch certain Leeds players sleeping by advancing forward to give James an option through the middle which led to the Pulisic goal. This system requires one midfielder that sits and another that advances, so we are always going to have this recycling issue. 

I will take the back 5 all day in Europe as well as against City/Liverpool, but we genuinely need to be operating a more progressive formation against teams we should be beating. 

1 hour ago, Sconnie Blue said:

David Luiz won a team of the season before. 
 

Im curious to see if anyone has actually watched Kounde regularly. 

Yeah because that season David Luiz had a very good season.

It wouldn't surprise me if Kounde got in the team of the season again this year.

Kounde has not many any individual errors this season according to whoscored.

43 minutes ago, jack_super_class said:

Yeah because that season David Luiz had a very good season.

Careful now, don't think you're allowed to say that on here.

Interesting take on how differently Klopp and TT prepared for the penalty shoot out.

https://www.givemesport.com/88008340-jurgen-klopp-got-psychological-edge-over-tuchel-before-fa-cup-final-penalty-shoot-out

 

22 minutes ago, just said:

Interesting take on how differently Klopp and TT prepared for the penalty shoot out.

https://www.givemesport.com/88008340-jurgen-klopp-got-psychological-edge-over-tuchel-before-fa-cup-final-penalty-shoot-out

 

Saw that tweet doing the rounds too. Interesting to see Klopp actually hired neuroscientists for club. 

Makes sense all things considered. Mount's reaction to Tuchel telling him to take the penalty was shocking. 

10 minutes ago, Sconnie Blue said:

Saw that tweet doing the rounds too. Interesting to see Klopp actually hired neuroscientists for club. 

Makes sense all things considered. Mount's reaction to Tuchel telling him to take the penalty was shocking. 

How did Mount react? Must've missed it.

1 minute ago, Amputechture said:

How did Mount react? Must've missed it.

Tuchel looks at him and tells him he's taking it. Mount shrugs looking completely disinterested whilst at the same time the entire team was looking at his reaction. 

3 minutes ago, Sconnie Blue said:

Tuchel looks at him and tells him he's taking it. Mount shrugs looking completely disinterested whilst at the same time the entire team was looking at his reaction. 

Maybe his Wembley hoodoo got to his head.

5 minutes ago, Amputechture said:

Maybe his Wembley hoodoo got to his head.

I think this 'Mr. Chelsea' persona is getting to him. He thinks he's better than he currently is but in crunch moments he fails to deliver time and time again. You are this alleged 'best player on the team' and you react like that in front of the entire team when asked to take a penalty? Sorry. That's poor. 

Looking forward to how he reacts when Gallagher is in the team. 

Edited May 15, 20224 yr by Sconnie Blue

1 minute ago, Sconnie Blue said:

I think this 'Mr. Chelsea' persona is getting to him. He thinks he's better than he currently is but in crunch moments he fails to deliver time and time again. You are this alleged 'best player on the team' and you react like that in front of the entire team when asked to take a penalty? Sorry. That's poor. 

Looking forward to how he reacts when Gallagher is in the team. 

I think more telling from that analysis is how Klopp went to each penalty taker and spoke individually to them, not in front of the team. Everything from that analysis of how Klopp and Tuchel handled it so differently seems to make sense.

Just now, Sconnie Blue said:

I think this 'Mr. Chelsea' persona is getting to him. He thinks he's better than he currently is but in crunch moments he fails to deliver time and time again.

You're not the first person to tell me that about Mount. Personally I don't see it. If he thought he was better than he is, wouldn't he take the first pen, rather than not wanting to take one at all?

He delivered a wonderful assist in one of the biggest nights in the club's history.

Apart from his penalties, which I don't think he should be taking anymore, when has he failed to deliver for us? You can't expect him to be the finished product at his age.

3 minutes ago, Amputechture said:

You're not the first person to tell me that about Mount. Personally I don't see it. If he thought he was better than he is, wouldn't he take the first pen, rather than not wanting to take one at all?

He delivered a wonderful assist in one of the biggest nights in the club's history.

Apart from his penalties, which I don't think he should be taking anymore, when has he failed to deliver for us? You can't expect him to be the finished product at his age.

I think the issue with opinions on Mount rn is he's getting viewed to one extreme or the other. He's either being overrated or underrated by people and it (probably subconsciously) leads people on both sides to double down further.

8 minutes ago, Amputechture said:

You're not the first person to tell me that about Mount. Personally I don't see it. If he thought he was better than he is, wouldn't he take the first pen, rather than not wanting to take one at all?

He delivered a wonderful assist in one of the biggest nights in the club's history.

Apart from his penalties, which I don't think he should be taking anymore, when has he failed to deliver for us? You can't expect him to be the finished product at his age.

This isn't a preconceived notion. Mount hardly sets the world alight in the biggest of games and its telling given his record. People want to say its a team game which is true but Mount alone could of put the ELC final to bed in February. We then look at his contributions in the league and they are all, if not most, against clubs in the bottom half. 

People overrate Mount and I couldn't be any more honest. I think people put him up on a certain pedestal that is completely unjustified and i've seen enough from Mount to suggest he thinks he's at that level too. 

1 minute ago, Argo said:

I think the issue with opinions on Mount rn is he's getting viewed to one extreme or the other. He's either being overrated or underrated by people and it (probably subconsciously) leads people on both sides to double down further.

Don't think it's just Mount. I guess that's just how fans are in this day age. It's one of the reasons I hardly discuss football to begin with. It all just feels so toxic. The back and forth bickering and petulance. Not worth it for me.

1 minute ago, Amputechture said:

Don't think it's just Mount. I guess that's just how fans are in this day age. It's one of the reasons I hardly discuss football to begin with. It all just feels so toxic. The back and forth bickering and petulance. Not worth it for me.

It is to an extent but my personal feelings are with Mount it seems to be even more prevalent.

By pundits and some Chelsea fans he's spoke about like a Hazard esque untouchable while some other Chelsea fans and opposition fans talk about him like he's a sh*t Jesse Lingard.

5 hours ago, Gol15 said:

Kounde is our old transfer target but Perisic sounds like a strange one.

Are we really looking for a 33 year old just cause Tuchel wants to play with the back 3 next season? The PL isn't like Serie A, he gets 1 injury at any point and it could take him half the season to come back.

We do need wing-backs if we're looking to continue playing this 3-4-2-1 but I was hoping for someone new, someone younger and fresh.

Totally agree was hoping to see Brighton left wing back cocarella not old boy perisic just because he is free

1 minute ago, King Osgood said:

Totally agree was hoping to see Brighton left wing back cocarella not old boy perisic just because he is free

We are still being linked with Cucurella. Perhaps we will get both.

Just now, forbzy said:

We are still being linked with Cucurella.

Yes please.

38 minutes ago, Sconnie Blue said:

Tuchel looks at him and tells him he's taking it. Mount shrugs looking completely disinterested whilst at the same time the entire team was looking at his reaction. 

Any good manager would ask his players he wants to take a penalty,bad decision by TT that cost us cup

6 minutes ago, Argo said:

I think the issue with opinions on Mount rn is he's getting viewed to one extreme or the other. He's either being overrated or underrated by people and it (probably subconsciously) leads people on both sides to double down further.

Couldn't agree more mate. When really the truth lies somewhere in the middle ground. As far as I'm concerned he's a young talented lad that works his socks off and that's good enough for me. Can he improve? Sure who can't at anything in life.

Regarding the pen situation, perhaps there is something to this, not Mount being a bottler or not wanting a pen but the extensive prep Liverpool and Klopp put into even the smallest details. Clearly they have everything planned and when it comes down to the finest margins, psychology will play a factor and in this case perhaps the deciding one. 

I hope someone points this out to Tuchel, not that he's doing it wrong but that he could prepare better. Ask the players individually if they feel up for it, not in front of everyone.

Sometimes people forget these highly paid athletes are only human and have thoughts and feelings that will impact their performance.

Mount might have felt pressure to say yes, should he have said no if he wasn't up for it? Perhaps but considering he was a 7th choice pen taker suggests that at some point with the level these lads are at he may have had to take one anyway since our last shootout with them went to the goalies. 

The warmth Klopp showed his players, the hugs, the private chats etc all of that plays into the bigger picture which is that this group has had more time to gel, feel more comfortable in these situations and know that if they miss its all good. Notice how Mane was smiling after his miss, this was at a clutch moment when his team could lose. Yet he's smiling suggests to me a level of confidence in his teammates and coach that perhaps we don't have just yet. 

All of this winning mentality, personal tweaks can be cultivated and Tuchel can find his own way of operating if he is given the time Klopp and Pep were.