42 minutes ago, axman2526 said:

Agree completely. Again though if you are playing for pens you leave him on this time though.

Knowing Lukaku, he probably would have missed it.

Not much to be said really. If Timo was injured that does pretty much explain the lack of attacking substitutions.

So to clarify our record vs the top two since TT has come in we've played Liverpool 5 times and only lost on pens in 2 Cup finals, drawn twice in the league and beaten them once in the league. Played City 5 times and lost twice in the league only to a single goal each time, beaten them in the league once, the Fa Cup once and the UCL finals. 

Anyone attacking Tuchel should remember two key things whether we like the 3atb or not and make no mistake I am not a fan unless its Chilwell and James at wingback or one of those two and a winger like CHO/Pulisic/Ziyech (meaning we have 4 offensive players in the starting 11). 3atb is currently the only way we can complete with the big boys and at least make it a contest. 

Secondly everything that could have gone wrong went wrong this season. He wanted another cb, Kounde and Sevilla basically did us over on that moving the goal posts for the deal. He signed Lukaku and he got injured after starting well, did a bad interview and the rest is history....nosedive in form and relationship. 

He wanted cover at wingback and an elite option at that, he got no one.Wanted to play with a back 5 and unfortunately lost his two starting wingbacks with no real back ups for both wings only Alonso.

Lost the majority of his strikeforce at the same time. Lost the main 3 senior midfielders (Kova, Jorgh and Kante) at the same time and had to deal with only having 1-2 fit at the same time throughout the season regularly. I think we even lost some cbs at the same time too. 

Add in the ownership issues, his own personal problems like a divorce and this becomes his hardest professional year of his career. Yet he started the season with a potential of 6 trophies to play for, we've won two made it to two more finals, were unfortunate to go out of the ucl. Yet we remain in the top 4 and on course for ucl next season. 

Is this a man really that we can honestly say isn't doing his job well? For me the most damning point is that this is still not even his team Saul a loanee who will be gone in the summer and only one additional transfer to the team he inherited 16 months ago. Despite the quality of the squad it's still a combination of players across 4 different coaching spans. 

Yes I'm a Tuchel fan, no he's not above criticism far from it. He gets a lot wrong, but he also gets a lot right. We lost another final that's a shame, but it was a game that nobody other than we Chelsea fans or players/coaches believed we would win. 

Let's just get UCL in the bag and this ownership sorted and look towards the future.

Edit: For those that want something positive to hold onto today, it's very likely Kounde and Perisic join after the takeover has been resolved. Verbal agreement in place from both and Tuchel is the one that wants them. Currently no issues and these deals are expected to go through from some very reliable sources.

Let's see how TTs targets do once they are added to the squad. While we cannot make official offers we can make verbal agreements there is probably more deals in the pipeline. So heads up peeps we're just getting started with TT and Todd.

 

 

Edited May 14, 20224 yr by LongtimerLurker

Has come up in this thread and various others but why do we keep going on about Ben Flipin Chilwell like he is Messi?

Yes it was a blow losing him for the season to injury and he was playing well but come on if the house of cards folds so badly because of him it was built poorly in the first place.

1 hour ago, ducavis said:

The last sentence is spot on. I don’t rate him as high as others do, and I feel he hides behind a back 5. If I was Boehly I would back him massively as long as he switches to a back 4. 

Can't keep churning out this defensive sh*t week after week; whether he thinks that's all the options he has with the players he's got I don't know. We were a far better team set up 433 as opposed to the dross I have seen lately.   I guess we will see in the off season who he buys and who he puts up for sale....starting with the Pulisic for one.

1 minute ago, axman2526 said:

Has come up in this thread and various others but why do we keep going on about Ben Flipin Chilwell like he is Messi?

Yes it was a blow losing him for the season to injury and he was playing well but come on if the house of cards folds so badly because of him it was built poorly in the first place.

Because we only have one other decent left back , we were often having to start Saul there

4 minutes ago, Drogba1 said:

Because we only have one other decent left back , we were often having to start Saul there

Is still not a valid excuse imo for our drop off. Alonso is a downgrade but is not like he is useless.

Van Dijk goes of injured before extra time starts and they have static players to play against lol.

5 minutes ago, Ernie_blue said:

Van Dijk goes of injured before extra time starts and they have static players to play against lol.

Bad luck Havertz and Werner both got injured.

Just now, axman2526 said:

Bad luck Havertz and Werner both got injured.

If Werner was injured then I don't understand taking off Lukaku in the 85th min tbh, I would have at least gone into extra time then you might aswell have him for the pens. 

44 minutes ago, LongtimerLurker said:

Not much to be said really. If Timo was injured that does pretty much explain the lack of attacking substitutions.

So to clarify our record vs the top two since TT has come in we've played Liverpool 5 times and only lost on pens in 2 Cup finals, drawn twice in the league and beaten them once in the league. Played City 5 times and lost twice in the league only to a single goal each time, beaten them in the league once, the Fa Cup once and the UCL finals. 

Anyone attacking Tuchel should remember two key things whether we like the 3atb or not and make no mistake I am not a fan unless its Chilwell and James at wingback or one of those two and a winger like CHO/Pulisic/Ziyech (meaning we have 4 offensive players in the starting 11). 3atb is currently the only way we can complete with the big boys and at least make it a contest. 

Secondly everything that could have gone wrong went wrong this season. He wanted another cb, Kounde and Sevilla basically did us over on that moving the goal posts for the deal. He signed Lukaku and he got injured after starting well, did a bad interview and the rest is history....nosedive in form and relationship. 

He wanted cover at wingback and an elite option at that, he got no one.Wanted to play with a back 5 and unfortunately lost his two starting wingbacks with no real back ups for both wings only Alonso.

Lost the majority of his strikeforce at the same time. Lost the main 3 senior midfielders (Kova, Jorgh and Kante) at the same time and had to deal with only having 1-2 fit at the same time throughout the season regularly. I think we even lost some cbs at the same time too. 

Add in the ownership issues, his own personal problems like a divorce and this becomes his hardest professional year of his career. Yet he started the season with a potential of 6 trophies to play for, we've won two made it to two more finals, were unfortunate to go out of the ucl. Yet we remain in the top 4 and on course for ucl next season. 

Is this a man really that we can honestly say isn't doing his job well? For me the most damning point is that this is still not even his team Saul a loanee who will be gone in the summer and only one additional transfer to the team he inherited 16 months ago. Despite the quality of the squad it's still a combination of players across 4 different coaching spans. 

Yes I'm a Tuchel fan, no he's not above criticism far from it. He gets a lot wrong, but he also gets a lot right. We lost another final that's a shame, but it was a game that nobody other than we Chelsea fans or players/coaches believed we would win. 

Let's just get UCL in the bag and this ownership sorted and look towards the future.

Edit: For those that want something positive to hold onto today, it's very likely Kounde and Perisic join after the takeover has been resolved. Verbal agreement in place from both and Tuchel is the one that wants them. Currently no issues and these deals are expected to go through from some very reliable sources.

Let's see how TTs targets do once they are added to the squad. While we cannot make official offers we can make verbal agreements there is probably more deals in the pipeline. So heads up peeps we're just getting started with TT and Todd.

 

 

While there is much foundation in your comments I have to disagree somewhat.  If we were a mid-table team with 11 decent players and the bench was sh*te I totally get what your saying, and the injuries would have a big impact to any team with only 11 starters, but this squad is full of supposed elite players, a large majority of which are / were first team international players, so regardless of the injuries these players should in all honesty pick up the slack when any of the first 11 get injured, suspended etc, that's the whole point of having such a large squad. Yes I get it, players have off days and go through bad spells or is that they are pissed off that the manager keeps jerking them around so they put no effort in because no matter what they are not going to get in the starting 11. Ziyech had one bad game and has been on the bench since no wonder he looks so disinterested most of the time.  

So while he may not have inherited the players he would like its his job to get the squad working as a unit ensuring any replacement knows what the f**k they are doing.  Instead of which he has frozen out certain players'.eg Barkley for one, who was decent under Lampard, yet doesn't get a sniff even when the midfield is getting turned over. And while Saul may have been dumped on his plate and had a couple of bad games to start, he started to become effective....then he gets dropped; surely he is not that bad..is he?

In terms of subs, TT would rather watch and not make a sub or make a sub where you're scratching your head when the game is already lost.  It does my head in. Pulisic today was hopeless with his attempts on goal; he can't pass more that 10 yards, hangs onto the ball too long, we've seen it time and time again yet TT leaves him out there when he should gave been 'yanked' after the first half.  He has continued to tinker with the team selection throughout the season and you wonder why there is no cohesion or understanding between a set of players; they don't play long enough in competitive games to do so.  Yes he may have got the team to a couple of finals, but was it more because of the determination by the players or his tactics...I'm not so sure.   We dropped 20 points from winning positions this season..many in my view because he did not make the right subs at the right time or made no subs when he clearly should have done...if he doesn't trust his bench then what's the point of having one.

As you said..lets see what he does next season with the players he wants...guarantee though he doesn't use 5 subs though unless there is an extra time somewhere. 

The jury is still out for me.

Not sure why was the decision to put up first Alonso and then Azpilicueta as the first penalty takers. Should have kept Lukaku as it's a guaranteed goal from there.

8 minutes ago, Gol15 said:

Not sure why was the decision to put up first Alonso and then Azpilicueta as the first penalty takers. Should have kept Lukaku as it's a guaranteed goal from there.

It’s not though is it?

 Jorginho is a very good penalty taker and he missed a few. Mount, our best player, missed a few too. There’s no guarantee Lukaku would have scored a penalty.

6 minutes ago, dansubrosa said:

It’s not though is it?

 Jorginho is a very good penalty taker and he missed a few. Mount, our best player, missed a few too. There’s no guarantee Lukaku would have scored a penalty.

No one is ever a certain pen scorer. However Rom is very good at Pens, is a bit like having Lamps on but subbing him ahead of a shootout. 

Edited May 14, 20224 yr by axman2526

4 minutes ago, dansubrosa said:

It’s not though is it?

 Jorginho is a very good penalty taker and he missed a few. Mount, our best player, missed a few too. There’s no guarantee Lukaku would have scored a penalty.

Lukaku has a fantastic conversion rate though. It’s like saying what would’ve happened if Drogba wasn’t sent off at Moscow. We got our answer in Munich. 

1 hour ago, axman2526 said:

Has come up in this thread and various others but why do we keep going on about Ben Flipin Chilwell like he is Messi?

Yes it was a blow losing him for the season to injury and he was playing well but come on if the house of cards folds so badly because of him it was built poorly in the first place.

It’s embarrassing. Some actually think our cancerous attack would’ve cured itself had Chilwell not torn his ACL

FFS some of the so called fans on this site should be ashamed of themselves...all I hear is criticism constantly from a select few...Jesus Tuchel has been at the club for a little over a year...Klopp has been at Liverpool..what 6 years now and has built that team from the ground up...yeah some of the subs were a bit questionable, but by in large the team gave a decent account of themselves against arguably a better and more coherent squad in Liverpool...yeah we hate losing to them...but we had our best 11 out there I'd say and for the 4th time this season got a draw...yes we lost on penalties but we've gone toe to toe with them in every game this season and we as fans should be proud of our boys not trying to pick holes and question probably our best manager since JM v1...get a f*cking grip and go vent your angry spew somewhere else...have an opinion but stop lowering the tone to the point where it becomes a slanging match...or are we not all grown ups? 

May not have been a classic today...but I for one am proud of the effort the lads put in... KTBFFH up the Chels! Here's to winning it all next season!!!!

The biggest and my honest question for all those who wouldn't mind seeing TT getting the boot:

Who do you want at the wheel?

CL semi-finalist Emery?

Scudetto winners Pioli or Inzaghi? 

La Liga champion Carlo? Xavi? sh*thousery 101 Simeone?

Pochettino? Nagelsmann? Sergio Conceição (Porto)? Maybe someone who's managing a national team?

not dissing anyone, but really interested in seeing if there are any other options out there that I'd rather back up than Tuchel and for me there are none.

I've been crying out for Roman to stick to one manager for a few years now and I still believe he's the best candidate available to build a consistent 5 year project like Pep and Klopp did. 

Who wants Tuchel gone? Can we not crticise a man who deserves to be crticised? 
 

If Havertz and Werner were unavailable than Lukaku should’ve stayed on. End of. 

9 minutes ago, Brigadeiro Mk II said:

The biggest and my honest question for all those who wouldn't mind seeing TT getting the boot:

Who do you want at the wheel?

CL semi-finalist Emery?

Scudetto winners Pioli or Inzaghi? 

La Liga champion Carlo? Xavi? sh*thousery 101 Simeone?

Pochettino? Nagelsmann? Sergio Conceição (Porto)? Maybe someone who's managing a national team?

not dissing anyone, but really interested in seeing if there are any other options out there that I'd rather back up than Tuchel and for me there are none.

I've been crying out for Roman to stick to one manager for a few years now and I still believe he's the best candidate available to build a consistent 5 year project like Pep and Klopp did. 

Well I guess we were never meant to see Roman stick with a manager even when the tide turns. 

Be interesting to see what approach the new owners take.

1 hour ago, CFCCAN said:

Can't keep churning out this defensive sh*t week after week; 

Genuine question - how is it possible that you apparently watch the team 'week after week' and are judging what you see as 'defensive sh*t'? I would just love to understand how such an opinion is even possible. 

End of the day your substitutions, like your starting line up, is proved right or wrong based on results. Every manager, not just TT, is judged on that. Pep still gets pelters for not using Rodri against us last May.

Take the keepers. Another English cup final, same opponent. First time he subs Kepa on, we lose and he is called out by many, especially the media, for the call.

Today he sticks with Mendy who missed too very possible saves and we lose, so wrong again.

The subs of Lukaku and Trev, did not help us win, cost us a very good pen taker and Dave's miss was crucial. So his subs are wrong based on the result. 

Dave bangs in his pen and TT was right and Klopp was wrong. Thin lines. 

Klopp has a lot of credit in the Pool bank to survive making wrong calls. How much does TT our new owner? I mean the Todd has only ever in person season TT sides lose or draw and some of those have been epically bad. 

I think taking off Lukaku and Pulisic basically meant he was playing for penalties which rubbed me off the wrong way considering the circumstances. 
 

- We lost in Feb in penalties so it isn’t like we are going into them confidentially. 
- This is our last shot at real silverware

- This is our shot at revenge

- If you want penalties you’re better off keeping Lukaku

- Liverpool back line looked knackered

- Fabinho, VVD, Salah, Diaz, and Robertson were all taken out before or at ET

 

I hate it when managers force themselves into what if situations. Had Lukaku stayed on and we lost at the very least Tuchel wouldn’t have any blame 

Edited May 14, 20224 yr by Sconnie Blue

Not wrong there ax, but I don't think Dave's sub had anything to do with penalties though. After the sub the camera focused on both Trevoh and Pulisic and they were totally spent. Putting Dave in there to have some fresher legs against their counter makes total sense.

Plus I believe he had to do at least 2 of his planned subs at that moment as he already had paused the game twice for Kante and then Ziyech, and you can only use your 5 subs if it's on 3 stops. (I don't know how that rule works alongside that bonus sub in extra time though)

3 minutes ago, Brigadeiro Mk II said:

Not wrong there ax, but I don't think Dave's sub had anything to do with penalties though. After the sub the camera focused on both Trevoh and Pulisic and they were totally spent. Putting Dave in there to have some fresher legs against their counter makes total sense.

Plus I believe he had to do at least 2 of his planned subs at that moment as he already had paused the game twice for Kante and then Ziyech, and you can only use your 5 subs if it's on 3 stops. (I don't know how that rule works alongside that bonus sub in extra time though)

One more sub slot for extra time. I believe you get an extra sub too.

31 minutes ago, Sconnie Blue said:

Who wants Tuchel gone? Can we not crticise a man who deserves to be crticised? 
 

If Havertz and Werner were unavailable than Lukaku should’ve stayed on. End of. 

Sure, he gets to be criticized just like any other manager, I also didn't agree with some of his choices today, like keeping Pulisic for that long which killed a few chances to counter. Would've been my 1st sub instead of Lukaku even though I wasn't pleased with his game.

Someone on a previous page just said he wouldn't mind seeing TT job threatened though, which led me to the question about a potential new manager.