Official Thomas Tuchel *Now Sacked*

[RMH]

52 minutes ago, ForeverCarefree said:

Thank you Captain Obvious. 

But we've just won the European Cup and have one of the most promising squads in Europe. We're about as attractive a club that any player would want to sign for. 

We wrapped up the Lukaku deal nice and early but went past the transfer deadline to seal a loan signing. And that's the extent of improving our team.

We were outbid for Hakimi and messed around by Sevilla on the Kounde deal. 

Now I'm not saying we should just be throwing money around but clearly there was a desire to build on last season's success and I don't think we've capitalised on our position of strength this summer. 

We've made more money in player sales than we've invested into the team allowing some extremely talented youth players to go in the process. 

We've got previous of not building on a previous success and this summer feels like a missed opportunity. 

Don't get me wrong, I still think we have the potential to make a success of this season and I reckon we've got a really good squad of players but there was a chance to do more than we did in terms of transfers. 

I don't share your pessimism with the signings. We have addressed the two areas where we were thiner, and with quality rather than panic buys. Lukaku may not be the world class striker we wanted, but he adds quality to the centre forward position and he was one of the most talented strikers available after his last seasons in Italy. Saul Niguez is a stop-gap in the form of a loan, with option to buy, and I feel that given he's unproven in the PL the loan is the best option. If he shows the quality he had, we've landed a very good deal. If he turns pants, no need to buy for next year when Gilmour comes back and we can go to the market to buy another midfielder. Kounde would have been the cherry at the top, but we are well covered in CB and we can try to get the deal done with more time for next season.

[Bob stark]

1 hour ago, ForeverCarefree said:

Thank you Captain Obvious. 

But we've just won the European Cup and have one of the most promising squads in Europe. We're about as attractive a club that any player would want to sign for. 

We wrapped up the Lukaku deal nice and early but went past the transfer deadline to seal a loan signing. And that's the extent of improving our team.

We were outbid for Hakimi and messed around by Sevilla on the Kounde deal. 

Now I'm not saying we should just be throwing money around but clearly there was a desire to build on last season's success and I don't think we've capitalised on our position of strength this summer. 

We've made more money in player sales than we've invested into the team allowing some extremely talented youth players to go in the process. 

We've got previous of not building on a previous success and this summer feels like a missed opportunity. 

Don't get me wrong, I still think we have the potential to make a success of this season and I reckon we've got a really good squad of players but there was a chance to do more than we did in terms of transfers. 

Who do you think we should sign? 

We have a very deep team and we don't have obvious need other than st and maybe a dm. We signed Lukaku for 90 m. It looks like we are willing to wait for rice and it is not a major need. 

Hakimi will be great but not for 70 m. Kounde is again not a big need, we have more than enough good cb. 

 

[ForeverCarefree]

33 minutes ago, Sindre said:

Kounde I get but would you have tried to bring in further reinforcements as well after Niguez and Lukaku?

I think Saul and Lukaku addressed two critical vulnerabilities and leaves us in a good position myself.

We've definitely addressed key areas of the squad and I am happy about that. I don't want to seem like I'm being too negative. 

We were in for Hakimi and Kounde so RWB and central defence must have been identified as desired areas to improve. 

[bluehaze]

[Bob stark]

22 hours ago, ForeverCarefree said:

We've definitely addressed key areas of the squad and I am happy about that. I don't want to seem like I'm being too negative. 

We were in for Hakimi and Kounde so RWB and central defence must have been identified as desired areas to improve. 

We have played 4 games now.

What do you think one area that can be improved on? 

[ForeverCarefree]

8 hours ago, Bob stark said:

We have played 4 games now.

What do you think one area that can be improved on? 

Right wing back. James is the only outright option to play there. 

Dave plays there too but then you've got to move him out of the back 3 to play there and I think he looks better there than at wing back. 

Centre back too. We've got 4 players in the last 12 months of their contract at the moment (Dave, Rudiger, Silva and Christensen) and sold another (Zouma) this summer. There's a chance we lose two of those four come the end of the season and then we're in the market from a weaker position than we were this summer. 

Central midfield, we've gambled on a  player who by his own admission hasn't played that well for two years rather bringing in someone who's on the up. 

Argument could be made for maybe benefiting from another centre forward too but that depends on how Tuchel plans on using Havertz and Werner this season. 

[axman2526]

6 hours ago, ForeverCarefree said:

Right wing back. James is the only outright option to play there. 

Dave plays there too but then you've got to move him out of the back 3 to play there and I think he looks better there than at wing back. 

Centre back too. We've got 4 players in the last 12 months of their contract at the moment (Dave, Rudiger, Silva and Christensen) and sold another (Zouma) this summer. There's a chance we lose two of those four come the end of the season and then we're in the market from a weaker position than we were this summer. 

Central midfield, we've gambled on a  player who by his own admission hasn't played that well for two years rather bringing in someone who's on the up. 

Argument could be made for maybe benefiting from another centre forward too but that depends on how Tuchel plans on using Havertz and Werner this season. 

To be fair while it is very likely Christensen signs a new deal until he has we could lose all of our CBS on free transfers next summer bar Chalobah.

[ashwin]

6 hours ago, ForeverCarefree said:

Right wing back. James is the only outright option to play there. 

Dave plays there too but then you've got to move him out of the back 3 to play there and I think he looks better there than at wing back. 

Centre back too. We've got 4 players in the last 12 months of their contract at the moment (Dave, Rudiger, Silva and Christensen) and sold another (Zouma) this summer. There's a chance we lose two of those four come the end of the season and then we're in the market from a weaker position than we were this summer. 

Central midfield, we've gambled on a  player who by his own admission hasn't played that well for two years rather bringing in someone who's on the up. 

Argument could be made for maybe benefiting from another centre forward too but that depends on how Tuchel plans on using Havertz and Werner this season. 

The reason we were in for Hakimi and Kounde is not because we require better players in those positions but these two are potentially world class young options. 

I don't understand why people say Christensen and/or Rudiger will not sign... When was the last time a player in their prime left us on a free? And the club probably knows which way that is going to go and prioritised accordingly. Bringing in this low probability hypothetical each time is not very useful.

But, in the extreme case that one of them doesn't, then that is a concern for next season, not for this.

[Spiller86]

33 minutes ago, ashwin said:

The reason we were in for Hakimi and Kounde is not because we require better players in those positions but these two are potentially world class young options. 

I don't understand why people say Christensen and/or Rudiger will not sign... When was the last time a player in their prime left us on a free? And the club probably knows which way that is going to go and prioritised accordingly. Bringing in this low probability hypothetical each time is not very useful.

But, in the extreme case that one of them doesn't, then that is a concern for next season, not for this.

Courtois left us on the threat of a free transfer, so not that long ago. Fair to say Hazard did the same, although in better circumstances. 

I agree with your broad point though. Unlikely that Christensen or Rudiger leave us unless a Real, Barcelona, PSG or Bayern come calling which is unlikely.

I think we made the right calls this summer, the striker was the key and we got that - the rest were nice to haves really.

[ForeverCarefree]

10 hours ago, ashwin said:

The reason we were in for Hakimi and Kounde is not because we require better players in those positions but these two are potentially world class young options. 

And from our position of strength this summer we failed to sign either of them. It was a chance to add depth throughout the squad and add some future proofing to the team as well. 

10 hours ago, ashwin said:

I don't understand why people say Christensen and/or Rudiger will not sign... When was the last time a player in their prime left us on a free? 

They don't generally leave on a free because we sell them before they have a chance to. It's pretty unprecedented to have 4 players from the same position in the team all in the last 12 months of their contract. 

Silva could very well retire at the end of this season and rumour is that Rudiger wants to become one of the best paid players at the club to sign a long term deal taking him into his 30s which is generally against the club's over 30 policy. 

10 hours ago, ashwin said:

But, in the extreme case that one of them doesn't, then that is a concern for next season, not for this.

Which was my whole point. We go from being able to address it now when we're in a position of strength to NEEDING to sign those players. 

[ashwin]

1 hour ago, ForeverCarefree said:

Which was my whole point. We go from being able to address it now when we're in a position of strength to NEEDING to sign those players. 

But this also gives the club power to say no if the price is not right. The long-term consequences of caving in to unrealistic demands can be quite severe. Other clubs are going to see Chelsea as an easy target for exhorbitant transfer fees.

I'm sure there are many variables at play here. And given that defenders were not essential at the moment, this is probably an informed choice made by the club.

And to be honest, only the club really knows the realities of the contract situations. We can only speculate but in all probability, there is a plan.

[Gol15]

12 hours ago, axman2526 said:

To be fair while it is very likely Christensen signs a new deal until he has we could lose all of our CBS on free transfers next summer bar Chalobah.

https://theathletic.com/news/chelsea-close-to-finalising-new-andreas-christensen-contract/1xeJDIRyrZjS

[axman2526]

2 hours ago, ForeverCarefree said:

And from our position of strength this summer we failed to sign either of them. It was a chance to add depth throughout the squad and add some future proofing to the team as well. 

They don't generally leave on a free because we sell them before they have a chance to. It's pretty unprecedented to have 4 players from the same position in the team all in the last 12 months of their contract. 

Silva could very well retire at the end of this season and rumour is that Rudiger wants to become one of the best paid players at the club to sign a long term deal taking him into his 30s which is generally against the club's over 30 policy. 

Which was my whole point. We go from being able to address it now when we're in a position of strength to NEEDING to sign those players. 

No chance Silva retires, he has the goal to play for Brazil in the winter World cup.

I believe his ideal is he plays enough this season to stay for the beginning of next season, play in the world cup and then return to Brazil to finish his career there and retire there.

[LongtimerLurker]

I still think Tuchel has a good chance of convincing Rudi to stay, personally I wont be too fussed if he leaves if we win the prem this season he would have completed his job with us. He wants managerial stability just like the rest of us. If we get at least 3 full seasons of Tuchel I'll be a very happy man.

[Deino]

On 01/09/2021 at 16:57, ForeverCarefree said:

We were outbid for Hakimi and messed around by Sevilla on the Kounde deal. 

I think your criticisms are valid except for these two points. 

1) PSG came in with a huge offer that our people couldn't simply top at that point. We were trying to sign Haaland then so buying an 80m rightback would have set us back massively by then to try to sign a striker. 

2) We did not mess with the Kounde deal, Sevilla did. We shouldn't bend to people like that, it'll just lead to other clubs to do that to us again in the future.  

[KonaKai Blue]

On 03/09/2021 at 11:44, ForeverCarefree said:

And from our position of strength this summer we failed to sign either of them. It was a chance to add depth throughout the squad and add some future proofing to the team as well. 

They don't generally leave on a free because we sell them before they have a chance to. It's pretty unprecedented to have 4 players from the same position in the team all in the last 12 months of their contract. 

Silva could very well retire at the end of this season and rumour is that Rudiger wants to become one of the best paid players at the club to sign a long term deal taking him into his 30s which is generally against the club's over 30 policy. 

Which was my whole point. We go from being able to address it now when we're in a position of strength to NEEDING to sign those players. 

Think you are being VERY VERY harsh.

1. We already have a stacked squad

2. There are not many options out there for us to improve our first 11. The talent pool in football is at an all time low in my 25 years of watching football.

3. We can't afford to end up like Barcelona by paying over the odds for players just because at the moment we can 

The only signing I wish we made was Halaand. But seeing the fees reported. Over 250m all in, that is just ridiculous.

[Bob stark]

4 hours ago, KonaKai Blue said:

 The talent pool in football is at an all time low in my 25 years of watching football.

 

Really? What make you say that? 

[KonaKai Blue]

10 hours ago, Bob stark said:

Really? What make you say that? 

Average players going for record prices (even in relative terms). Lukaku is a great striker but not top top tier for example yet he's the most expensive striker in the world. Kepa the most expensive goalkeeper and again not top tier. 

When Roman first came there were so many great players from a number of clubs to choose from. Now even with a 200m transfer kitty, you'll struggle to find the quality out there to spend it on.

[Bob stark]

3 hours ago, KonaKai Blue said:

Average players going for record prices (even in relative terms). Lukaku is a great striker but not top top tier for example yet he's the most expensive striker in the world. Kepa the most expensive goalkeeper and again not top tier. 

When Roman first came there were so many great players from a number of clubs to choose from. Now even with a 200m transfer kitty, you'll struggle to find the quality out there to spend it on.

Let me start that the crazy number is normal because the money that is cu3in the game. 

Lukaku isn't a top2 st? Who is? 

[KonaKai Blue]

6 hours ago, Bob stark said:

Let me start that the crazy number is normal because the money that is cu3in the game. 

Lukaku isn't a top2 st? Who is? 

If Lukaku really is a top 2 striker then there is no way that we shouldn't win the Premier League this season with a minimum of 20 goals from open play from Lukaku 

[Bob stark]

23 hours ago, KonaKai Blue said:

If Lukaku really is a top 2 striker then there is no way that we shouldn't win the Premier League this season with a minimum of 20 goals from open play from Lukaku 

From open play, 20 goals will be difficult. I am not even sure Salah or Kane scored 20+ open play goals in the last 3 seasons. 

[ForeverCarefree]

On 05/09/2021 at 23:40, KonaKai Blue said:

Average players going for record prices (even in relative terms). Lukaku is a great striker but not top top tier for example yet he's the most expensive striker in the world. Kepa the most expensive goalkeeper and again not top tier. 

When Roman first came there were so many great players from a number of clubs to choose from. Now even with a 200m transfer kitty, you'll struggle to find the quality out there to spend it on.

Cost of transfers has massively inflated over the last 10 years as well though. Buying Lukaku for £95m is now similar to us paying £50m when we signed Torres. 

I don't know if there's fewer top tier players than before but the list of clubs willing and able to spend big has certainly declined in the last couple of years. Barely anyone outside of the Premier League has confidence in making investments over £20m at the moment. 

[Gol15]

On 06/09/2021 at 10:27, KonaKai Blue said:

If Lukaku really is a top 2 striker then there is no way that we shouldn't win the Premier League this season with a minimum of 20 goals from open play from Lukaku 

If he isn't top 2 then we should be able to find 2 PL striker that are better than him. The first name that comes up in my mind that can fit the comparison is Kane, the second? Not sure.

[coco]

We won the Champions League without a striker, if we don't win anything this season with a striker, it won't matter how many goals Lukaku scores.

[Deino]

2 hours ago, ForeverCarefree said:

 

I don't know if there's fewer top tier players than before but the list of clubs willing and able to spend big has certainly declined in the last couple of years. Barely anyone outside of the Premier League has confidence in making investments over £20m at the moment. 

I don't think there are fewer top players but just that the standards have risen that most strikers are around the same level so there're very few that stand out.