Red card aside, been saying for some time he just does not have top 6 quality.  He's busy, industrious, energetic - all great hustle and bustle qualities.  But goodness does he lack any real quality - ball always seems to be under his feet and when most players need 1-2 touches he needs 4-5.  Rarely sees the right pass, too slow to release the ball, passes under or over hit, head down when on the ball, and snatches at shots.  When better players are available I'm not sure we'll miss his workrate that much as there is not enough end product for me.

32 minutes ago, PhilH930 said:

Red card aside, been saying for some time he just does not have top 6 quality.  He's busy, industrious, energetic - all great hustle and bustle qualities.  But goodness does he lack any real quality - ball always seems to be under his feet and when most players need 1-2 touches he needs 4-5.  Rarely sees the right pass, too slow to release the ball, passes under or over hit, head down when on the ball, and snatches at shots.  When better players are available I'm not sure we'll miss his workrate that much as there is not enough end product for me.

Completely agree. 

This is exactly the mindset of united. 👍👍👍

 

8 hours ago, Victor90 said:

My criticism of Gallagher has been very consistent, I've been saying since the season started that he shouldn't be a starter. And I wasn't against selling him for a profit either which I'm still not but I think he's a good squad player to have. 

Most games he's played as CAM, but he's not contributing enough to the offence it's as simple as that. We've seen what Cole Palmer has been able to do since he joined, he has far more creativity and glides with the ball extremely well. Conor is very rough on the ball in comparison, takes numerous touches, takes more time, doesn't release the ball quick enough, slows down the play. I think he's a liability going forward if I'm being honest, I'll pick him in the big games though.

It's kind of like Ramires, I always picked Ramires in the big games but in games like today he's useless. 

Agree. Now let's say you want your 10 to be better technically but he won't run and chase like gallagher. That is perfectly fine. 

Now who will do the running? Will Palmer run? Will sterling run? If they don't then can Enzo and caicedo run? 

14 hours ago, Scott Harris said:

My opinion is unchanged. Against the likes of City, I would start him because we need that extra player to cope with their quality. In games where we want and expect to dominate possession, he doesn't start. He doesn't have the ability we need. Caicedo and Enzo should be enough to deal with the dirty work, we need more quality on the ball in attacking midfield.

If Pochettino is still starting Gallagher in every game when we have Nkunku and Palmer available at the same time, I will be disappointed.

Yeah thats where I see it, he is definitely needed in games where we need to fight for possession and teams are more open against us defensively, almost no use when we are playing against defensively deep sitting teams. I would much rather have him in our squad than not, and I dont see why so many fans are desperate to sell him. He was stupid yesterday, such a daft challenge to make, but he hardly the first and definitely wont be the last to do that kind of thing. If we are to shout to get rid any time a player does then we will end up with no players.

4 hours ago, Bob stark said:

Agree. Now let's say you want your 10 to be better technically but he won't run and chase like gallagher. That is perfectly fine. 

Now who will do the running? Will Palmer run? Will sterling run? If they don't then can Enzo and caicedo run? 

That's a pretty good argument and probably why Gallagher keeps starting games. I feel that as a team we need to get better at defensive transitioning, which I think will come in time as players start to gel and get used to the system more. But we can't just keep playing someone as a CAM simply because he runs around a lot, we need better in that position. 

Gallagher is still an important player for us even though he lacks apparent footballing abilities. He works harder than anyone. He reminds me of Wijnaldum at Liverpool when they won the Champions League. He is all important utility player who tries only to help his team mates no matter the style or the way. He just works tirelessly and helps his mates to defend and score. 

I think we need to sort his contract and sign him for 5 years. 

17 minutes ago, Victor90 said:

That's a pretty good argument and probably why Gallagher keeps starting games. I feel that as a team we need to get better at defensive transitioning, which I think will come in time as players start to gel and get used to the system more. But we can't just keep playing someone as a CAM simply because he runs around a lot, we need better in that position. 

 

Think that a tad harsh on Gallagher. Running is a big part of his game but he offers a fair bit more than that. He might not have scored but he has come close and goals have resulted from rebounds and assists. He's often on the edge of our box and then up supporting the attack - the bloke has endless energy that others don't offer. I agree, he isn't as technically gifted as others and sometimes is found wanting, but he is an important part of the squad and we will miss him when he's not available.

 

59 minutes ago, Nibs said:

 

Think that a tad harsh on Gallagher. Running is a big part of his game but he offers a fair bit more than that. He might not have scored but he has come close and goals have resulted from rebounds and assists. He's often on the edge of our box and then up supporting the attack - the bloke has endless energy that others don't offer. I agree, he isn't as technically gifted as others and sometimes is found wanting, but he is an important part of the squad and we will miss him when he's not available.

 

I think we can gain a lot when he realizes fighting for the team doesn't equal making risky tackles. Fix that, and he'll be a very useful grafter. 

1 hour ago, Nibs said:

 

Think that a tad harsh on Gallagher. Running is a big part of his game but he offers a fair bit more than that. He might not have scored but he has come close and goals have resulted from rebounds and assists. He's often on the edge of our box and then up supporting the attack - the bloke has endless energy that others don't offer. I agree, he isn't as technically gifted as others and sometimes is found wanting, but he is an important part of the squad and we will miss him when he's not available.

 

Its ridiculously harsh, and such a stupid easy way to criticise him without needing to add substance.

1 hour ago, Nibs said:

 

Think that a tad harsh on Gallagher. Running is a big part of his game but he offers a fair bit more than that. He might not have scored but he has come close and goals have resulted from rebounds and assists. He's often on the edge of our box and then up supporting the attack - the bloke has endless energy that others don't offer. I agree, he isn't as technically gifted as others and sometimes is found wanting, but he is an important part of the squad and we will miss him when he's not available.

 

So far I've seen people say he's the next Modric, our most important player, player of the season, better than Enzo, etc. So you might feel that I'm being harsh, but I feel that people are going way overboard with the praise of Gallagher. 

I've added plenty of arguments as to why Gallagher isn't good enough to be starting for us. I honestly don't see what he offers in that position other than workrate. I think Chukwumeka showed in 45 minutes what Gallagher hasn't been able to do all season, I think Palmer is a much better candidate in that position, just as I think even Nkunku would be. 

Bob Stark made a good point, I can see why Gallagher is playing due to the lack of workrate in the team, particularly from the attack. But we need more than that, and people are getting carried away thinking he's our main man and superstar off the back of a few decent performances. Maybe I'm not seeing what so many others are seeing, I will admit there's a very fickle attitude as nobody appears to agree with me until we lose a game and Gallagher puts in a stinker. Other than that I'll maintain he's the weak link in our attacking play and we'll struggle far more against lowblock sides the more we keep persisting with him. 

Funny thing about criticism of Gallagher, there are players you favour in the team over him but yet he is wiping them all with what he does for the team. Yes there is such a thing as dirty work, unsung hero, heartbeat of the team, focal point.....etc

Tell me which of your favourites are doing what he is doing and how much better they are at it. 

I don't like to say it because it's my team but we are just not a good team. Just leave CG alone. He is Chelsea as a Lamps or Terry was. Both those two will not rank top 5 in our talent pool of players when they played but will feature in every Chelsea top 5 conversation.

Please let him be.

21 hours ago, ross91690 said:

Way too ill disciplined to be captain,  needs to learn from Reece. 

Too bad he can't learn anything from he who is never on the pitch.

6 hours ago, Bob stark said:

Agree. Now let's say you want your 10 to be better technically but he won't run and chase like gallagher. That is perfectly fine. 

Now who will do the running? Will Palmer run? Will sterling run? If they don't then can Enzo and caicedo run? 

It's a typical case of the one eyed man is king in the land of the blind 

Just can't see who people want to do the job he is doing.

Not even being funny but Caicedo who cost what he did had a mare of a game in terms of mistiming tackles, barging into people and was in every sense of the word lucky to walk off the pitch at end of game. Still wonder why Poch didn't take him off as could have cost us but I'm going to head over to his thread now and see what our football analysts have said about his game.

Hmm. Surprise surprise, first post I land on when I go to the thread talks about young, quality,time, not worried

Who would have thought it.

7 minutes ago, abister1 said:

Funny thing about criticism of Gallagher, there are players you favour in the team over him but yet he is wiping them all with what he does for the team. Yes there is such a thing as dirty work, unsung hero, heartbeat of the team, focal point.....etc

Tell me which of your favourites are doing what he is doing and how much better they are at it. 

I don't like to say it because it's my team but we are just not a good team. Just leave CG alone. He is Chelsea as a Lamps or Terry was. Both those two will not rank top 5 in our talent pool of players when they played but will feature in every Chelsea top 5 conversation.

Please let him be.

I think he's getting there on workrate and a lot of players being injured yes. Weren't you the same person who massively criticised Mason Mount? Even before there were rumours of him wanting to leave Chelsea. I think he's a big downgrade from Mount who could do just about everything Conor can do but a lot better. 

And JT is one of the best defenders to ever grace the game, that's nonsense, same with Lampard. They didn't just get to where they are because were passionate and worked hard, they were extremely talented players. 

I don't hate Gallagher, I just don't rate him as highly as many people on this forum do because I think he's a squad player at best. Very happy to be proven wrong, but I don't think I will be on this unless he massively develops his game going forward. 

4 minutes ago, Victor90 said:

who massively criticised Mason Mount? Even before there were rumours of him wanting to leave Chelsea. I think he's a big downgrade from Mount who could do just about everything Conor can do but a lot better. 

As I will any player who is underperforming, before there were rumors of him leaving he wasn't signing the thing and I knew where it was going.

You can't claim to have love for a club and take so long about committing to it. Even if the deal isn't completed, there is so much your body language and public disposition on the topic says. 

You think I'll waste my time on a player that isn't loyal to a club I love? And don't get me started on he was in Chelsea since he was a boy as I have been a Chelsea fan longer and if there's one thing I have realised in football, the guys passionate about their team always wins over talent.

He could do everything better than Connor but how did that work out in the last forgettable season, which he has carried on in Mercenary mode at United? 

Are they any better than Connor's for us this season? For a player sold for 60 big ones and supposedly an older player who should be more advanced in his development and performance trajectory.

My first sentence talks about underperforming and whilst you may accuse CG of that, what do we have that is better at this time.

Our £100m+ superstar scored his first goal from open play yesterday, the other one is almost like a parody of himself and you think it should be CG we should be focussing the discussion on when we dissect why we are what we are this season?

43 minutes ago, Victor90 said:

So far I've seen people say he's the next Modric, our most important player, player of the season, better than Enzo, etc. So you might feel that I'm being harsh, but I feel that people are going way overboard with the praise of Gallagher. 

I've added plenty of arguments as to why Gallagher isn't good enough to be starting for us. I honestly don't see what he offers in that position other than workrate. I think Chukwumeka showed in 45 minutes what Gallagher hasn't been able to do all season, I think Palmer is a much better candidate in that position, just as I think even Nkunku would be. 

Bob Stark made a good point, I can see why Gallagher is playing due to the lack of workrate in the team, particularly from the attack. But we need more than that, and people are getting carried away thinking he's our main man and superstar off the back of a few decent performances. Maybe I'm not seeing what so many others are seeing, I will admit there's a very fickle attitude as nobody appears to agree with me until we lose a game and Gallagher puts in a stinker. Other than that I'll maintain he's the weak link in our attacking play and we'll struggle far more against lowblock sides the more we keep persisting with him. 

Some folk do go a bit OTT, but I have never seen Gallagher compared to Modric!

But he HAS been our most consistent midfielder this season up to the Newcastle game. I'm not one who thinks a player deserves selection on work rate alone. Remember when Graham Taylor used to select Carlton Palmer for England for exactly that and he shouldn't have been anywhere near International football. But Gallagher does have a lot more about him and I do think you need home-grown players who will dig in when some of the "Stars" go missing. 

I'm a firm believer that a team selection should always be "horses for courses". Don't make changes to a winning side but tweak to allow for opponents and home fixtures / tougher away fixtures. I'm a big fan of Chukwumeka too, but he will have to fight to get his place back and I think he is another one who will suffer from inconsistency as he can look great some games and other games pass him by.

   

Edited December 4, 20232 yr by Nibs

22 minutes ago, Victor90 said:

And JT is one of the best defenders to ever grace the game, that's nonsense, same with Lampard. They didn't just get to where they are because were passionate and worked hard, they were extremely talented players. 

And I never said what you are suggesting. I said again, they will not feature in a a Top 5 talented list but will feature in every chelseaTop 5 player conversation. Two different things. 

At a push, I'll give you JT due to position played and competition. Point remains.

 

36 minutes ago, Nibs said:

Some folk do go a bit OTT, but I have never seen Gallagher compared to Modric!

But he HAS been our most consistent midfielder this season up to the Newcastle game. I'm not one who thinks a player deserves selection on work rate alone. Remember when Graham Taylor used to select Carlton Palmer for England for exactly that and he shouldn't have been anywhere near International football. But Gallagher does have a lot more about him and I do think you need home-grown players who will dig in when some of the "Stars" go missing. 

I'm a firm believer that a team selection should always be "horses for courses". Don't make changes to a winning side but tweak to allow for opponents and home fixtures / tougher away fixtures. I'm a big fan of Chukwumeka too, but he will have to fight to get his place back and I think he is another one who will suffer from inconsistency as he can look great some games and other games pass him by.

   

This was just a month ago:

On 06/11/2023 at 23:37, olderschoolcfc said:

Anyone think there's something slightly like Modric in Gallagher? Quietly winning all fans over... 

I might go a bit overboard but I don't change my view or opinion after one game, I've been saying this all season that I don't think he's good enough to be starting every game. But I will agree he's probably been more consistent than Enzo and definitely Caicedo but I don't think he's done anything outstanding outside of being a workhorse. I would say he's been our poorest performer in most of our losses and draws which have come against lowblock sides. 

What i've liked about Palmer is how good he is on the ball and how he can pick out a pass so easily, something I think Gallagher is miles behind at. Oscar was a workhorse as a CAM but he had more to his game than that, I just don't think Gallagher offers enough going forward. But people have summed it up in this thread much better than I have. Phil at the top of the page summed it up perfectly really. We'll just have to agree to disagree, of course I want to be wrong on this, I just don't think I am. I genuinely believe the sooner he's on the bench more the better our football will get. But FWIW I most certainly wish he wasn't unavailable for next game, the United match is a game I definitely would've picked him for. 

34 minutes ago, abister1 said:

And I never said what you are suggesting. I said again, they will not feature in a a Top 5 talented list but will feature in every chelseaTop 5 player conversation. Two different things. 

At a push, I'll give you JT due to position played and competition. Point remains.

Excluding Hazard, Zola, and Gullit. Who were the others more talented than Lampard, particularly peak Lampard? (2004-2010)

15 minutes ago, Sconnie Blue said:

Excluding Hazard, Zola, and Gullit. Who were the others more talented than Lampard, particularly peak Lampard? (2004-2010)

You know this is one of those cases where I am being a pedant when I use the word talent but you should interpret it from the positive side of the word. 

Peak Lampard was someone who performed optimally and efficiently far above his capabilities. He says that himself in interviews.

Yes we know he is one of the most level headed people around who won't blow his trumpet but when he talked about our foreign legion in the early 2000s, the amount of talent in the team I wouldn't put it down to him just being humble.

I don't think there are many more impactful players than Lamps for Chelsea but just off raw talent alone, I'd add Ballack and Fabregas to that list to go ahead of him. However he tops them all where it comes to his efficacy, presence, and other such intangibles that makes a certain player more of A force to reckon with than another.

54 minutes ago, Victor90 said:

But I will agree he's probably been more consistent than Enzo and definitely Caicedo but I don't think he's done anything outstanding outside of being a workhorse

You have been also consistent on what you say about him Vic, I'll give you that but I'm happy to see you acknowledge this. I think you can and probably should go one further to also acknowledge that apart from being a workhorse ther are other areas he comes top in the team. The stats are out there and I know you can spin stats to show what you want but I believe in this team as we currently have, he gets unfair stick.

I'm not saying when we have others back to fitness who perform better we shouldn't make him the squad member that he should be, but right now he's good enough to be starting in this team and let's not forget, a key thing that has kept him in the squad is the captain's arm band which he wouldn't be wearing for most of the season if James wasn't always in the treatment room.

And I believe there are only two others in the squad that can wear that band ahead of him but see why he is the chosen one. There are a lot of variables Managers consider and a lot of factors that have happened have put Connor in the position he is.  

Is he there solely on merit, maybe not. But has he deserved to keep getting a look in? I think so.

Edited December 4, 20232 yr by abister1

38 minutes ago, abister1 said:

You have been also consistent on what you say about him Vic, I'll give you that but I'm happy to see you acknowledge this. I think you can and probably should go one further to also acknowledge that apart from being a workhorse ther are other areas he comes top in the team. The stats are out there and I know you can spin stats to show what you want but I believe in this team as we currently have, he gets unfair stick.

I'm not saying when we have others back to fitness who perform better we shouldn't make him the squad member that he should be, but right now he's good enough to be starting in this team and let's not forget, a key thing that has kept him in the squad is the captain's arm band which he wouldn't be wearing for most of the season if James wasn't always in the treatment room.

And I believe there are only two others in the squad that can wear that band ahead of him but see why he is the chosen one. There are a lot of variables Managers consider and a lot of factors that have happened have put Connor in the position he is.  

Is he there solely on merit, maybe not. But has he deserved to keep getting a look in? I think so.

I guess it's all about opinions, I think Enzo & Caicedo will become very good players and will be our spine for years to come. Enzo's passing range and vision is fantastic, I'm hoping Caicedo can show us the player he was at Brighton and hopefully in time he'll get there. I completely understand that paying 100 odd million for both of them each you should be getting instant results, but given the current circumstances with a brand new team I'm willing to give it some time first before I judge.

Gallagher, well I simply don't rate him that highly, which is my opinion. I want to see us play without him more and I don't believe he has the potential to be a starter for a top 6 side. What we're seeing right now from Gallagher I believe is the best you're going to get out of him, Caicedo and Enzo not so much but I truly believe they've got more to show.

I could very well be harsh and completely wrong, time will tell won't it. And believe me if I'm wrong, I'll hold my hands up to it, gladly and willingly. I'm not falling victim to the "he's british so he's overrated" narrative, because I think Cole Palmer is a superstar. I also think Palmer is leagues ahead of Gallagher as an attacking midfielder, and I even think Carney has far more potential.  

10 hours ago, Bob stark said:

Now who will do the running? Will Palmer run? Will sterling run? If they don't then can Enzo and caicedo run? 

Oh boy, who can wonder if Enzo and Caicedo can run...

Not sure I agree with it being "the end-all" in terms of workrate with Gallagher out of the XI. Nkunku isn't some bum off the ball. He was crucial in Leipzig's intense gegenpressing with him spearheading it at times.

Also, in the argument "who will run?"

As of November 9th, Gallagher's average distance covered per 90 in the Premier League is 10.2km. 

Nkunku at Leipzig averaged 10.5km.