On 09/08/2025 at 18:46, Sexyfootball said:

In All Comps, Badiashile played 16 90s and has 5.04 progressive passes per 90, comfortably ahead of Colwill and Tosin.

A few posters owe apologies to Bob perhaps LOL

Stick me against Shamrock Rovers every game and i'll do Bob's bait bait pass until his hearts content.

On 09/08/2025 at 17:26, Sexyfootball said:

Amusingly ...

Behave Sexyfootball! I refuse to believe any stats that has Amougou topping it for Chelsea when he played what, 20 minutes? Or Felix in third position...

27 minutes ago, RMH said:

Behave Sexyfootball! I refuse to believe any stats that has Amougou topping it for Chelsea when he played what, 20 minutes? Or Felix in third position...

Obviously you have to apply context, but it is funny how stats are always "crap" when they run contra to what you want them to show LOL,

Its a valid observation though that players like Sterling, Badiashile, Felix, Jackson aren't popular so get a much harder time than other "liked" players who perform similar or worse !

In this instance, I showed data that supports Bob's observation, and I just used PL. That was thrown back as "not enough games for Badiashile" so I opened it up to all games for him, and we then get the "weak opposition" objection. Whichever way you look at it, he makes a lot of progressive passes, and more than the other CBs, which is what Bob was saying. Sometimes you just have to focus on what players are doing right/well, rather than look for reasons to get your pitch forks out :-)

In the Conference League alone:

Badiashile 915 minutes ; 5.20 progressive passes per 90 mins

Chalobah 336 minutes ; 4.59 per 90

Adarabioyo 855 minutes ; 4.11 per 90

Colwill 120 minutes ; 3.08 per 90

Colwill hasn't played much, but the minutes for Badders and Tosin are in the same ball park, and, guess what, Badiashile played more progressive passes LOL

So well done Bob for spotting something that escaped most posters !

25 minutes ago, Sexyfootball said:

In the Conference League alone:

Badiashile 915 minutes ; 5.20 progressive passes per 90 mins

Chalobah 336 minutes ; 4.59 per 90

Adarabioyo 855 minutes ; 4.11 per 90

Colwill 120 minutes ; 3.08 per 90

Colwill hasn't played much, but the minutes for Badders and Tosin are in the same ball park, and, guess what, Badiashile played more progressive passes LOL

So well done Bob for spotting something that escaped most posters !

In the conference league Tosin has more progressive passing distance than Badiashile in less games. 703.8 yards per 90, while Badiashile manages 615.7 yards per 90. If you want to just talk about amount of progressive passes, you conveniently left out the 18 year old with more than Benoit. Acheampong with 5.69 p/90. Benoit completes more short passes (with less accuracy) but Tosin completes more medium and lon passes per 90 in the conference league with higher passing accuracy.

TL;DR, Benoit stat pads popping it off short to a CM all game and isn't good making line breaking passes.

5 minutes ago, Ukraine Bolt said:

In the conference league Tosin has more progressive passing distance than Badiashile in less games. 703.8 yards per 90, while Badiashile manages 615.7 yards per 90. If you want to just talk about amount of progressive passes, you conveniently left out the 18 year old with more than Benoit. Acheampong with 5.69 p/90. Benoit completes more short passes (with less accuracy) but Tosin completes more medium and lon passes per 90 in the conference league with higher passing accuracy.

TL;DR, Benoit stat pads popping it off short to a CM all game and isn't good making line breaking passes.

I didn't "conveniently" leave out anyone. Whitewall originally referenced Tosin and Colwill and the discussion was about centre backs.

Acheampong played in the Conference mostly at right back, with some minutes at left back. He never played at centre back. I'd certainly like to see more of him in 25/26 as he looked very good bringing the ball forwards.

Edited August 11, 2025Aug 11 by Sexyfootball

These are defenders we talking about, progressive passing is part of the game for every player but they should be measured in defensive terms. That's their primary task.

3 minutes ago, Sexyfootball said:

I didn't "conveniently" leave out anyone. Whitewall originally referenced Tosin and Colwill and the discussion was about centre backs.

Acheampong played in the Conference mostly at right back, with some minutes at left back. He never played at centre back. I'd certainly like to see more of him in 25/26 as he looked very good bringing the ball forwards.

Tosin who is better and Colwill who barely played.

Agreed about Acheampong though, could save us a fortune.

55 minutes ago, Sexyfootball said:

Obviously you have to apply context, but it is funny how stats are always "crap" when they run contra to what you want them to show LOL,

Its a valid observation though that players like Sterling, Badiashile, Felix, Jackson aren't popular so get a much harder time than other "liked" players who perform similar or worse !

In this instance, I showed data that supports Bob's observation, and I just used PL. That was thrown back as "not enough games for Badiashile" so I opened it up to all games for him, and we then get the "weak opposition" objection. Whichever way you look at it, he makes a lot of progressive passes, and more than the other CBs, which is what Bob was saying. Sometimes you just have to focus on what players are doing right/well, rather than look for reasons to get your pitch forks out :-)

I think that statistics are very useful, I use it on my everyday work, but tests have to be applied correctly. In these cases, I think that they are badly used as they do not take into account many of the variables that a sport like football has. You mention the "weak opposition" objection, well, it is a valid objection because the level of opposition makes it easier or more difficult to perform and therefore it biases the statistics results if not taken into account. I think that consistency is required to be able to compare any of those players, and for that they need similar number of minutes and against similar distribution of teams. If those requirements are not met, then you end up with a table topped by Amougou. Overall, those tables tend to be meaningless because you're comparing players that have played under very different conditions.

Honestly guys, I can't be bothered any more with this.

I think Bob has a valid point, but we can agree to disagree no problem.

Let's see what Maresca does to backfill Colwill against Palace. I think he'll play Tosin at RCB and Trev (if fit) at LCB. If Trev is out, then probably Badiashile gets the nod.

We really ought to have enough centre backs to cover Colwill going down injured. We've still got 6 that are fit that can play at centre back (Tosin, Trev, Badiashile, Hato, Anselmino, Acheampong). We only need to play 2. I'm not in favour of signing any more unless they are balanced by sales, and right now we have Gilchrist, Veiga and Disasi all still awaiting an exit, let alone any of those that are "first team squad".

Honestly I'm not really sure why it was laughable in the first place to suggest Badiashile was a good passer and makes progressive passes. That's literally the only thing he's good at.

I want us to back Josh, he’s looked good every time he’s played and it’s not worth buying ANOTHER CB. We’ve already got 9 on the books.

Cobham never lets youdown.

There is no logical reason either of the brothers of destruction should still be at the club. there was no logical reason to sign either of them in the first place TBH.

6 hours ago, Remodez said:

Honestly I'm not really sure why it was laughable in the first place to suggest Badiashile was a good passer and makes progressive passes. That's literally the only thing he's good at.

I don't think that was the original argument. It was implied that he should start based on that passing ability. The strongest part of my game has always been passing the ball, I can comfortably play through a press that features the local baker, but put me up against real opposition and I am going to find the passes a lot tougher to pull off. It's the same logic with Badiashile, how would his stats hold up in a full season against the best opposition? Probably not so well.

On 10/08/2025 at 01:46, Sexyfootball said:

In All Comps, Badiashile played 16 90s and has 5.04 progressive passes per 90, comfortably ahead of Colwill and Tosin.

A few posters owe apologies to Bob perhaps LOL

I am surprised this is even a discussion. Passing wise Badi is > Chalo, Fofana, Tosin and it is not even close.

The problem with Badi is that with Cucu as your lb, you need your lcb to be quick.

19 hours ago, Blueowner said:

These are defenders we talking about, progressive passing is part of the game for every player but they should be measured in defensive terms. That's their primary task.

Nope. The way Maresca want to play is very specific.

I’m sorry, I understand stats and the like but sometimes the eyetest is all you need, not only is Badiashille miles behind the others from a defensive standpoint, he also makes everyone else around him so much worse. Whether that’s due to nerves or what I don’t know but everytime he plays we look defensively terrible.

He should be nowhere near the squad let alone the starting XI, give Josh the minutes, pray Trev stays fit or see how quickly Hato adapts before even considering Badiashille for the bench.

1 hour ago, Sexyfootball said:

Obviously you have to apply context, but it is funny how stats are always "crap" when they run contra to what you want them to show LOL,

Its a valid observation though that players like Sterling, Badiashile, Felix, Jackson aren't popular so get a much harder time than other "liked" players who perform similar or worse !

In this instance, I showed data that supports Bob's observation, and I just used PL. That was thrown back as "not enough games for Badiashile" so I opened it up to all games for him, and we then get the "weak opposition" objection. Whichever way you look at it, he makes a lot of progressive passes, and more than the other CBs, which is what Bob was saying. Sometimes you just have to focus on what players are doing right/well, rather than look for reasons to get your pitch forks out :-)

Popularity is a factor you gain by your performance on the field. Take even the manager himself also as an example, in the beginning everyone thought he was the 2nd coming then when we went on a long bad run just about everyone wanted him fired, now again his one of the best ever. Wait till our next bad run.

8 minutes ago, The Boehly Babes said:

I’m sorry, I understand stats and the like but sometimes the eyetest is all you need, not only is Badiashille miles behind the others from a defensive standpoint, he also makes everyone else around him so much worse. Whether that’s due to nerves or what I don’t know but everytime he plays we look defensively terrible.

He should be nowhere near the squad let alone the starting XI, give Josh the minutes, pray Trev stays fit or see how quickly Hato adapts before even considering Badiashille for the bench.

Completely agree

2 hours ago, Bob stark said:

I am surprised this is even a discussion. Passing wise Badi is > Chalo, Fofana, Tosin and it is not even close.

The problem with Badi is that with Cucu as your lb, you need your lcb to be quick.

Tosin is statistically better and far better in the eye test.

Someone that grew up in the City academy is obviously going to be better.

I still dont know on this site whether the top post or the bottom post is the latest. Why is it so difficult to manoeuvre around this site.

31 minutes ago, Blueowner said:

I still dont know on this site whether the top post or the bottom post is the latest. Why is it so difficult to manoeuvre around this site.

Do you read a book from the bottom of the page upwards?

Edit: There's also time stamps on the posts haha

Edited August 12, 2025Aug 12 by Ukraine Bolt

I hope to be proven wrong but not going after a top CB worries me. Even if Colwill was fit I thought we needed a partner for him given Fofana can't be relied on. The other CBs we have are various degrees of average; one of Badiashile, Tosin and Chalobah shouldn't be a starter for a team trying to challenge for the top trophies, let alone two of them.

On 11/08/2025 at 10:52, Blueowner said:

These are defenders we talking about, progressive passing is part of the game for every player but they should be measured in defensive terms. That's their primary task.

Spot on. David Luiz could often ping a ball 30 yards and land it on a dinner plate, but he couldn't mark an opposition forward for 90 minutes if his life depended on it.

I think we need a high calibre elite level replacement for Colwill. I actually think he hasn't developed as well as we might have hoped. I believe he is only fractionally better than Tosin and Trev. He would be better placed as a no.2 to a leading CB.

Edited August 15, 2025Aug 15 by OneTommyLangley

Signing a replacement for Colwill is simply the manager being greedy. I'd support a loan (T.Silva if he fancied it) but paying out for another defender is just silly given he'll return to fitness.

There are plenty of players at the club who can do a job - Badishille is fine for me, Fofana will be back at some stage, if we can get another 15 games out of him before his legs fall off great.

But paying to sign someone isnt sustainable given the ever increasing size of the bomb squad.

For context. Stirling isnt even listed in Fantasy football this year, neither is disasi/ Chilwell. Getting these players off the books is the clubs priority... not signing anyone new.