3 minutes ago, Argo said:

You joke but I reckon they'll be actually serious posts like this next season when we're stuck with Rice and Enzo is smashing it at Liverpool and United.

The way this club has been in the market for the past 6 years, they are stupid enough to spend about 60-80 million on Rice because he's a Chelsea lad and has PASHUN. 

Just now, Victor90 said:

The way this club has been in the market for the past 6 years, they are stupid enough to spend about 60-80 million on Rice because he's a Chelsea lad and has PASHUN. 

And he'll be made long term captain over James which would be one of the most criminal decisions in the clubs history and i genuinely mean that.

Team has looked average - awful in about 90% of the games since he’s arrived. Looks like the players and fans are turning on him too. 

I’ve some sympathy for him considering the injuries he’s had but that’s also part of the game. Can’t see him turning it around but Boehly etc might give him a bit more time as they won’t want to be seen to be admitting what a massive mistake they made in sacking Tuchel. 

Edited January 8, 20233 yr by Dubair

I actually think Declan Rice is a good player, judging by what I've heard from West Ham fans, he'd be a big upgrade on any midfielder we have now.

Spending 80M on Rice is a lot less risky than 120M on Enzo, who'd we be signing pretty much off one World Cup. There's been multiple players signed of impressive WC's that have gone on to flop.

1 minute ago, Argo said:

And he'll be made long term captain over James which would be one of the most criminal decisions in the clubs history and i genuinely mean that.

James is too quiet to be captain material for me. 

Part of our problem is lack of leadership. Azpi and Jorginho share the armband, and neither has a great set of what I'd call the classic leadership competencies. Remember the good old early days of the Roman era when we had 15 international captains in our starting 11 ? That's what we need to get back to ... 

7 minutes ago, Argo said:

You joke but I reckon they'll be actually serious posts like this next season when we're stuck with Rice and Enzo is smashing it at Liverpool and United.

Genuine question, if Rice comes here and succeeds will you give him any praise or credit? It seems you’re so set on him failing and it’s not even a sure thing if he ends up here or not. 

For the record I don’t care if Rice comes here or not, if he does I’ll back him but I won’t care if we end up missing out on him. But I keep seeing you negatively speaking about Rice, sometimes completely unprovoked and it just seems if he does sign you will be desperate for him to fail. 

1 minute ago, drjonesy1994 said:

Genuine question, if Rice comes here and succeeds will you give him any praise or credit? It seems you’re so set on him failing and it’s not even a sure thing if he ends up here or not. 

For the record I don’t care if Rice comes here or not, if he does I’ll back him but I won’t care if we end up missing out on him. But I keep seeing you negatively speaking about Rice, sometimes completely unprovoked and it just seems if he does sign you will be desperate for him to fail. 

You don't seem to ask these questions to anyone going after one of our UCL winners but anyway I digress.

I will be holding him to the very highest standards given his inevitable price tag, how great I'm told he's is and who we'd have picked him over (Casemiro, Bruno Guimaraes, Enzo etc). I don't think that's unreasonable is it not?

I've been getting told for the last two years he is a major upgrade on Jorginho so ill be expecting the results to match in that regard aswell.

Or is this going to be a Lukaku situation again where I'm constantly told how great he's going to be but branded the unreasonable one when I hold him to those standards?

4 minutes ago, drjonesy1994 said:

Genuine question, if Rice comes here and succeeds will you give him any praise or credit? It seems you’re so set on him failing and it’s not even a sure thing if he ends up here or not. 

For the record I don’t care if Rice comes here or not, if he does I’ll back him but I won’t care if we end up missing out on him. But I keep seeing you negatively speaking about Rice, sometimes completely unprovoked and it just seems if he does sign you will be desperate for him to fail. 

To succeed would mean what exactly? Finishing top 8? I believe we could do it with Rice but if that's the standard now then the bar got significantly lower in no time...

15 minutes ago, abramovich said:

Does anyone really think Tuchel would have gotten a win against this City side given our current problems? He may have organized us better and the score would have been more respectable but we'd have lost anyway. 

It's not exactly all about today is it? What is it now, 1 win in 10?

7 minutes ago, Sexyfootball said:

James is too quiet to be captain material for me. 

Part of our problem is lack of leadership. Azpi and Jorginho share the armband, and neither has a great set of what I'd call the classic leadership competencies. Remember the good old early days of the Roman era when we had 15 international captains in our starting 11 ? That's what we need to get back to ... 

I think mentality plays a bigger part than shouting about tbh, James first comments to Koulibaly was "ready to win trophies" while Rice said "it's okay we score in training" to justify no goals in four games for England (could you imagine the abuse Jorginho would get if he came out and said similar tonight?) and said Southgate should stay because Mbappe was quiet when England got knocked out (again, imagine if Jorginho said "it's all good atleast we stopped Saka" after the Arsenal game).

4 minutes ago, Argo said:

I think mentality plays a bigger part than shouting about tbh, James first comments to Koulibaly was "ready to win trophies" while Rice said "it's okay we score in training" to justify no goals in four games for England (could you imagine the abuse Jorginho would get if he came out and said similar tonight?) and said Southgate should stay because Mbappe was quiet when England got knocked out (again, imagine if Jorginho said "it's all good atleast we stopped Saka" after the Arsenal game).

If James doesn't have any career altering injuries, he should be our captain for the next decade at least.

1 minute ago, Argo said:

You don't seem to ask these questions to anyone going after one of our UCL winners but anyway I digress.

I will be holding him to the very highest standards given his inevitable price tag, how great I'm told he's is and who we'd have picked him over (Casemiro, Bruno Guimaraes, Enzo etc). I don't think that's unreasonable is it not?

I've been getting told for the last two years he is a major upgrade on Jorginho so ill be expecting the results to match in that regard aswell.

Or is this going to be a Lukaku situation again where I'm constantly told how great he's going to be but branded the unreasonable one when I hold him to those standards?

Assuming you’re talking about Jorginho, what questions should I be asking? I’m asking you this question about Rice because you are the one I see all the time slagging him off more than anyone else. I’ve made my stance clear on Jorginho several times. To reiterate he’s been a good player for us over the years but I think he’s a weak link now and I would move him on this summer. 

Just seems like whatever Rice does here he’s destined to fail in your eyes, before he’s even kicked a ball for us. 

Ok, if Jorginho is your standard, if Rice does come in and is an “upgrade”, would you then be willing to accept that he’s doing a good job? Obviously it goes both ways and those that are advocating for his signing need to admit when he’s not playing well. 

I like Jorginho, I like Rice. The whole Jorginho V Rice is a popular debate on here for some reason. It’s really simple for me, as long as Jorginho is a Chelsea player I’d want him to succeed. If Rice ever becomes a Chelsea player then I’d want him to succeed too. Not aiming this at you in particular but it doesn’t need to be Player X Vs Player Y all the time. 

Just now, drjonesy1994 said:

Assuming you’re talking about Jorginho, what questions should I be asking? I’m asking you this question about Rice because you are the one I see all the time slagging him off more than anyone else. I’ve made my stance clear on Jorginho several times. To reiterate he’s been a good player for us over the years but I think he’s a weak link now and I would move him on this summer. 

Just seems like whatever Rice does here he’s destined to fail in your eyes, before he’s even kicked a ball for us. 

Ok, if Jorginho is your standard, if Rice does come in and is an “upgrade”, would you then be willing to accept that he’s doing a good job? Obviously it goes both ways and those that are advocating for his signing need to admit when he’s not playing well. 

I like Jorginho, I like Rice. The whole Jorginho V Rice is a popular debate on here for some reason. It’s really simple for me, as long as Jorginho is a Chelsea player I’d want him to succeed. If Rice ever becomes a Chelsea player then I’d want him to succeed too. Not aiming this at you in particular but it doesn’t need to be Player X Vs Player Y all the time. 

I'm surprised at all the Rice hate, he's far more proven than Enzo Fernandez, and would most likely be cheaper with his contract running out.

Is he gone yet?

7 minutes ago, drjonesy1994 said:

Assuming you’re talking about Jorginho, what questions should I be asking? I’m asking you this question about Rice because you are the one I see all the time slagging him off more than anyone else. I’ve made my stance clear on Jorginho several times. To reiterate he’s been a good player for us over the years but I think he’s a weak link now and I would move him on this summer. 

Just seems like whatever Rice does here he’s destined to fail in your eyes, before he’s even kicked a ball for us. 

Ok, if Jorginho is your standard, if Rice does come in and is an “upgrade”, would you then be willing to accept that he’s doing a good job? Obviously it goes both ways and those that are advocating for his signing need to admit when he’s not playing well. 

Absolute barest of bare minimum requirement I will expect our defensive record and league record to improve on what we've had with Jorgi.

Our average finish with Jorginho has been 3rd/4th with the goals conceded record tending to be in the late 30s (one of which he had Luiz, Kepa, Alonso and a pre Tuchel Rudiger behind him). So us strongly pushing for top 2 with at most early 30's on the goal against tally is surely not asking for much of a supposed transformative upgrade no?

Also for all of Jorginho's faults we have managed in head to heads to go toe to toe with elite sides and sometimes even pass them of the pitch, so I'd expect Rice to maintain that which I don't think is too much to ask of a supposed upgrade.

And for the record I'd be holding Enzo to similar high standards aswell if by some miracle we recover this deal. The key difference is I think he can live upto them.

Edited January 8, 20233 yr by Argo

5 minutes ago, Drogba1 said:

I'm surprised at all the Rice hate, he's far more proven than Enzo Fernandez, and would most likely be cheaper with his contract running out.

Enzo is a proven winner, Rice is a proven loser. If we manage to dodge that bullet, Rice will be off to Spurs.

1 minute ago, Argo said:

Absolute barest of bare minimum requirement I will expect our defensive record and league record to improve on what we've had with Jorgi.

Our average finish with Jorginho has been 3rd/4th with the goals conceded record tending to be in the late 30s (one of which he had Luiz, Kepa, Alonso and a pre Tuchel Rudiger behind him). So us strongly pushing for top 2 with at most early 30's on the goal against tally is surely not asking for much of a supposed transformative upgrade no?

Also for all of Jorginho's faults we have managed in head to heads to go toe to toe with elite sides and sometimes even pass them of the pitch, so I'd expect Rice to maintain that which I don't think is too much to ask of a supposed upgrade.

And for the record I'd be holding Enzo to similar high standards aswell if by some miracle we recover this deal. The key difference is I think he can live upto them.

Jorginho has been extremely underrated by fans on here, his performance in the Champions League final was immaculate. Guardiola set his team up to try and overload Jorginho yet he played through the press no problem.

With that being said I do think his time is beginning to run out, he was never the fastest but he's looking extremely slow legged now. I don't think his contract should be massively extended at this point.

3 minutes ago, Gol15 said:

Enzo is a proven winner, Rice is a proven loser. If we manage to dodge that bullet, Rice will be off to Spurs.

If we judge players by what trophies they won then Kai Havertz would be a better forward than Harry Kane or Erling Haaland.

1 minute ago, Drogba1 said:

If we judge players by what trophies they won then Kai Havertz would be a better forward than Harry Kane or Erling Haaland.

Not by what they won but by their mentality that more often than not makes the difference from winning and losing. We're having a terrible season and yet West Ham is freaking 10 points below us while having Rice as their key player.

In any case we'll see who will Potter pick, maybe it's going to be Brighton's finest, Caicedo!

11 minutes ago, Drogba1 said:

If we judge players by what trophies they won then Kai Havertz would be a better forward than Harry Kane or Erling Haaland.

Surely players have to take responsibility for their decisions?

Rice would have been pretty easy pick up for Lampard in 2020 if he didn't sign effectively a 6 and a half year deal in 2018, that's on him and only him.

Same with Kane, he chose to sign new contract after new contract at Spurs knowing what Levy is like, so I personally had no sympathy atall when he couldn't get his move to City, it was own fault.

Edited January 8, 20233 yr by Argo

Choosing Rice over Enzo would be such a Chelsea thing to do. 
 

I swear some fans would have it in their best interest to see a Rice, Mount, Gallagher midfield over the future success of this club. 

Just now, Sconnie Blue said:

Choosing Rice over Enzo would be such a Chelsea thing to do. 
 

I swear some fans would have it in their best interest to see a Rice, Mount, Gallagher midfield over the future success of this club. 

I put Rice as leagues above Mount and Gallagher to be honest, even for England he's been very good. Mount and Gallagher are solid Prem players but nothing more than that.

Spending 120m on an 18 year old in the Portugese league seems more risky to me, though I haven't seen him play outside of Argentina.

6 minutes ago, Drogba1 said:

I put Rice as leagues above Mount and Gallagher to be honest, even for England he's been very good. Mount and Gallagher are solid Prem players but nothing more than that.

Spending 120m on an 18 year old in the Portugese league seems more risky to me, though I haven't seen him play outside of Argentina.

It was actually watching him for England that sealed the deal for me. Against the deep defenses he was practically a non entity in possesion. 

If we are ever going to compete with City over 38 games in this era we need to build a team that has 70% possesion most weeks and wins almost every game we should be winning.

Edited January 8, 20233 yr by Argo

If Potter really is on £12Mpa, it really is mind blowing dosh. That’s £1M per month before tax, £500K per month after tax going into his bank account. He must be heading home tonight wherever he lives thinking “I’m literally robbing a living here”. Half a bar a month for abject failure.

1 minute ago, Argo said:

It was actually watching him for England that sealed the deal for me. Against the deep defenses he was practically a non entity in possesion. 

If we are ever going to compete with City over 38 games in this era we need to build a team that has 70% poessesion most weeks and wins almost every game we should be winning.

I think he's the closest thing to a Kante replacement. One box to box player and one playmaker seemed to work under Tuchel's system. Rice and Frenkie De Jong would be a good combo if we could get them.