6 minutes ago, just said:

Not me that's said that Gol. My point has always been that we can bring in a player who will give us more than Jorginho does. More physicality, more pace, more adaptability etc. Will that make us a better team? In my opinion, hopefully, yes. In that particular area of the pitch I think it probably will. However, does that one player change mean we will then be immediately challenging for the EPL title? I wouldn't be so naive (or daft), to suggest that should automatically follow. The world, life and indeed football, are rarely as Black & White simplistic as that Gol.

Incidentally if we finish 9th this year, a season in which Jorginho has played a significant part, does that mean we would only have to finish 9th or better next time round for Rice to be deemed a success?

It's not me that said it either I'm just playing along like I said so whoever comes is automatically better and we would be as a result a lot better overall so some results would be expected to show for it, after all this squad would be finishing only once outside of top 4 so whoever Potter is rebuilding with, it shouldn't be worse unless we are going to settle for less.

The current situation reminds me a lot of what happened with Man United when Fergie retired. They brought in a British manager who had built a decent reputation, but he was ultimately regarded as a failure and lasted only a season. As we have seen since it was pretty evident that Moyes inherited a mess that had built up over several years, and many managers since have failed to turn things around despite significant investment. They may have been better off sticking with Moyes longer while they tried to rebuild, but their board didn't seem to recognize that were bigger issues in place.

My hope in our case is that we now have a decent Director of football in place (Vivell), and future decisions (manager and players) are handled through him. So hopefully things work out better. Assuming Vivell backs Potter it would be better for the board to support him for now. But if Vivell doesn't they may need to reconsider.

14 minutes ago, drjonesy1994 said:

Thought this was interesting. After the Forest game I checked and Potter was 20/1 to be next to leave. After today he’s dropped to 5/1. Obviously means nothing in the grand scheme of things and it’s influenced by people placing bets but he’s had such a reduction in odds in the last week.

He was 16/1 before kick off. Must have been a flurry of bets, even though we were always going to lose.

4 minutes ago, charierre said:

As the market is smaller on managers being sacked, it doesn’t take a major amount of money to be placed for the odds to be changed so significantly. Bookies react accordingly and shave the odds but keep a margin for themselves.

Yeah also in the bookies interest to keep the odds as appealing as they can for as long as they can. Average punter is more likely  put £20 on Potter going at 5/1 than putting £20 on if he was evens. 

Unfortunately this season has a 2015/16 vibe to it - just a season that is waiting to be over with. 

Is there any timescales on when any injured players return? 

On 02/01/2023 at 16:37, WhiteWall said:

I'm not saying we won't change manager eventually. I'm saying that this team and this football is 10th - 12th standard. I can't believe the media keep going on about our top 4 challenge. When we lose to Man City we'll be about 10th at almost the half way point.

Unfortunately you got that prediction spot on.  Lost 1 nil in the league game on Thursday and now 10th.

5 minutes ago, JM7 said:

Is there any timescales on when any injured players return? 

Wes Fofana might be available later in January. Reece probably early Feb. Kante not until March. Not sure about the rest.

6 minutes ago, forbzy said:

Wes Fofana might be available later in January. Reece probably early Feb. Kante not until March. Not sure about the rest.

Yeah looks like Fofana (mid Jan) Chilwell (late Jan) and then James (early Feb) are the key ones back soon. Though I imagine with all 3, the club will be super cautious. 

1 hour ago, just said:

Good post Sheva and I agree with most of it. The one opinion in there I'm not in sync with is your point on using young players. The only factors that should be considered by the manager IMO are; are they physically ready and are they better than the regular player already in possession of that shirt? That's it for me. Ability. Age should not be part of the equation.

 

 

I agree but what If they dont have the mental strength to deal with it if they have the ability? If we signed a player in the mould Kai Havertz during a time where we were winning the league and had big personalities in our dressing room I think he would be twice the player we have now. He's a good example of a younger player who was touted as the next big thing and he's had a bit of a rough time here and now he looks mentally shot. Players need the right environment to flourish.

Some of these kids are 18 years old, if we started a few now and they lost just like the senior players then you are setting them up for failure. Everyone bigged up Hutchinson against City and he looked like a dear in headlights. That's not his fault but it shows the pressure on these kids.

It's up to the players who are getting paid the big salaries to perform just like any other job in the world.

Update from Ben Jacobs:

Still told, as from the very start, there is full confidence and patience in Graham Potter at Chelsea. Potter sought assurances when he joined that there would be no knee-jerk reaction if #UCL wasn’t achieved or results took time.
 

Owners feel Potter is restricted by what he inherited (Tuchel also frustrated by squad), a huge period of transition, injuries and even the World Cup break, and that any new identity will take time. #CFC really don’t want to make a change, especially not during a transfer window.

The owners have a long-term vision, and the multi-club model won’t be fully functional immediately. As a result, and despite big spending so far, Potter isn’t going to have the team he wants overnight.

Clearly being mid-table and out both cups is a run that would under Roman Abramovich have got a manager sacked (and quickly). But there will likely be patience with Potter because he’s seen as not just the right manager but also a strong fit for the long-term vision.

Of course, every manager is eventually judged by results, but the plan is not to make change without giving Potter more time and resource. Behdad Eghbali has told Potter this multiple times during this difficult spell.

 

31 minutes ago, just said:

Not me that's said that Gol. My point has always been that we can bring in a player who will give us more than Jorginho does. More physicality, more pace, more adaptability etc. Will that make us a better team? In my opinion, hopefully, yes. In that particular area of the pitch I think it probably will. However, does that one player change mean we will then be immediately challenging for the EPL title? I wouldn't be so naive (or daft), to suggest that should automatically follow. The world, life and indeed football, are rarely as Black & White simplistic as that Gol.

Incidentally if we finish 9th this year, a season in which Jorginho has played a significant part, does that mean we would only have to finish 9th or better next time round for Rice to be deemed a success?

While we're on hypotheticals, ignoring trophies/top 4 etc for a second let's say (hopeful I know) we have a largely good season fitness wise next season. The defense that plays most weeks will likely (well hopefully in the case of Silva stays and maintains a high level) be James-Fofana-Silva-Chilwell. That defense is light years ahead of Azpi-Luiz-pre Tuchel Rudi-Alonso that Jorgi sat infront of and conceded 39 in his first season. So if we sign Rice and he's infront of that 4 surely it's fair to expect a significant better goals allowed record?

Mount, Havertz, Sterling, Pulisic, Ziyech, RLC, Aubameyang, Jorginho, Koulibaly, Mendy and Kepa

Ideally all of these players need shifting in the summer if possible, some haven't fulfilled potential and some are past it but either way these aren't good enough for Chelsea. 

Edited January 8, 20233 yr by timetowaste

24 minutes ago, JM7 said:

Update from Ben Jacobs:

Still told, as from the very start, there is full confidence and patience in Graham Potter at Chelsea. Potter sought assurances when he joined that there would be no knee-jerk reaction if #UCL wasn’t achieved or results took time.
 

Owners feel Potter is restricted by what he inherited (Tuchel also frustrated by squad), a huge period of transition, injuries and even the World Cup break, and that any new identity will take time. #CFC really don’t want to make a change, especially not during a transfer window.

The owners have a long-term vision, and the multi-club model won’t be fully functional immediately. As a result, and despite big spending so far, Potter isn’t going to have the team he wants overnight.

Clearly being mid-table and out both cups is a run that would under Roman Abramovich have got a manager sacked (and quickly). But there will likely be patience with Potter because he’s seen as not just the right manager but also a strong fit for the long-term vision.

Of course, every manager is eventually judged by results, but the plan is not to make change without giving Potter more time and resource. Behdad Eghbali has told Potter this multiple times during this difficult spell.

 

If the fans turn on Potter and the board like they did last game I'm not sure they'll be that patient

2 minutes ago, Drogba1 said:

If the fans turn on Potter and the board like they did last game I'm not sure they'll be that patient

There was chants of Roman Abramovic and Tommy Tuchel today, I think they're well aware now!

I think social media causes a huge problem in football, I think it really inflates the players ego and encourages them to think they are bigger than club.

I mean, you don’t really see footballers with the same working ethic and attitude as Frank Lampard nowadays, I can’t imagine footballers nowadays staying behind in training to practice on shooting drills etc.

16 minutes ago, dansubrosa said:

I think social media causes a huge problem in football, I think it really inflates the players ego and encourages them to think they are bigger than club.

I mean, you don’t really see footballers with the same working ethic and attitude as Frank Lampard nowadays, I can’t imagine footballers nowadays staying behind in training to practice on shooting drills etc.

Can work both ways though. Cristiano Ronaldo is an egomaniac, but that ego results in him training harder than anyone. Then again social media wasn't around when he was coming up so who knows.

Looking at the Brighton thread, they seem to think De Zerbi is a pretty big upgrade on Potter.

9 minutes ago, Drogba1 said:

Looking at the Brighton thread, they seem to think De Zerbi is a pretty big upgrade on Potter.

Just don’t go there, no more Brighton acquisitions.   

Next game is only 4 days away, how is Potter going to get something out of his players? You could bench them if 3-4 players aren't performing, but when it's more than 1/2 of the team you really have a problem as a manager. Telling the fans the good times are over is hardly the best way to win them over, as well as winning the trust of the new owner. Assume we finish around mid table, no European football next year, with the FFP in place we won't be able to spend another 300M to help Potter to rebuild, stuck with the core of the current group of players, and here we go transition season one more time.

I feel bad for Potter because he took over in the worst possible moment, the club is a mess and the squad is filled with average players.

There might be a great manager in him, but the problem, the way I see it, is that the players, because of their big egos, just don't seem to buy into his ideas. They don't want, or they think they're too good to be managed by somebody who is not that glamorous. Either way, they are wrong.

Personally, I think Potter should have stayed at Brighton for another season or two, then make the next step to a club like Spurs, or Dortmund where he would have got a taste for UCL football, play some quarter finals there, or maybe a semi, beat some big dogs on route to that, make some deep runs into the FA Cup let's say, cement a top four finish for a few seasons in a row and build a solid image for himself.

And only after all this have a shot at a truly big club and impose himself in front of big egos. Unfortunately I think this move came way too early for him.

My two pennies on this whole thing - can't be sure of it, but I don't think Boehly will sack him, although I believe, If things don't improve in the coming weeks, that Potter himself will think about resignation and leave somehow with his head up, saying he tried but some things happened that he does not want to talk about. You know, that kind of speech.

1 minute ago, petre ispirescu said:

I feel bad for Potter because he took over in the worst possible moment, the club is a mess and the squad is filled with average players.

There might be a great manager in him, but the problem, the way I see it, is that the players, because of their big egos, just don't seem to buy into his ideas. They don't want, or they think they're too good to be managed by somebody who is not that glamorous. Either way, they are wrong.

Personally, I think Potter should have stayed at Brighton for another season or two, then make the next step to a club like Spurs, or Dortmund where he would have got a taste for UCL football, play some quarter finals there, or maybe a semi, beat some big dogs on route to that, make some deep runs into the FA Cup let's say, cement a top four finish for a few seasons in a row and build a solid image for himself.

And only after all this have a shot at a truly big club and impose himself in front of big egos. Unfortunately I think this move came way too early for him.

My two pennies on this whole thing - can't be sure of it, but I don't think Boehly will sack him, although I believe, If things don't improve in the coming weeks, that Potter himself will think about resignation and leave somehow with his head up, saying he tried but some things happened that he does not want to talk about. You know, that kind of speech.

I don't think he gets his payoff if he resigns, so I highly doubt he will

1 hour ago, Mod said:

There was chants of Roman Abramovic and Tommy Tuchel today, I think they're well aware now!

No matter how much we chant for them, they are not coming back.

Anyone that doesn't have any criticism for Potter yesterday isn't really a fan. 

Potter picks the team(terribly), brought forth another change of formations(that doesn't serve anyone) and the lack of any intrinsic qualities of his team is on him. 

There is no grit, determination, winning mentality. All of that is gone. 

Something has to change drastically or we will be sliding even further down. We are out on almost every cup tournament that can be used to paper over some cracks.

1 hour ago, Drogba1 said:

Looking at the Brighton thread, they seem to think De Zerbi is a pretty big upgrade on Potter.

They weren't quite as sure when they were getting knocked out of the cup by a league one side or scoring once in four games.