1 hour ago, Drogba1 said:

The sad part is if we're not successful Boehly's ambition will probably fade and he'll just milk the club for money, like how we feared the other American owners might do.

Glazers 2.0

Just now, Tubbs Tattsyrup said:

If Potter really is on £12Mpa, it really is mind blowing dosh. That’s £1M per month before tax, £500K per month after tax going into his bank account. He must be heading home tonight wherever he lives thinking “I’m literally robbing a living here”. Half a bar a month for abject failure.

No wonder he doesn't seem to care much if we lose, he's getting paid a ridiculous amount either way, and gets the pay out in full if he gets sacked.

3 minutes ago, Drogba1 said:

No wonder he doesn't seem to care much if we lose, he's getting paid a ridiculous amount either way, and gets the pay out in full if he gets sacked.

And getting his mates from Brighton a nice gig in the process as well. Wouldn't be surprised if he signs some players from there either.

I dont think this is on Potter or the new owners.

This goes way back and we have scrapped top 4 on the last games of the season under Lampard and Tuchel.

This is poor recruitment and faith in players that are simply not good enough for us. The club needs stability of a top manager who is willing to buy into a project and I'd like Potter to be that guy but usually if the players buy into what you are doing you get a shift out of them. We should know by now that we are in familiar terrority of the manager getting sacked and I think this is down to a long term problem of us never ever replacing the quality core group of players that we've had.

Kante, Terry, Hazard, Costa, Fabregas, Courtois and Willian and the spine core group of players we had before that was Lampard, Cech, Terry and Drogba and co. We always had a good core and now we don't have any of those to fall back on, we just have kids and manager signings like Jorginho. Player power used to be the thing we always used to get called out on. You don't hear it now do you? There's no personality or experience in our squad anymore.. Roman always used to try and get the best managers about to get a shift out of what he's got and usually it worked.

Now it's finally all caught up to us.

Youth is not the answer, do you think that game for them today was a good experience to get thrashed by City? Ideally youth players should be brought in when we're winning with what we have. Glamourising youth over what we got is such bad idea because it overhypes mediocrity and puts pressure on kids to please a fanbase and also win.

It's sad for Potter but that's the nature of the business, I know there's alot of injuires but even with our first starting 11 I dont think much changes because Tuchel couldn't get a tune out of them either. If he does get sacked he will easily get another job. I have no idea who could replace him because who are the top available managers out there that are willing to buy into a long term plan.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Just now, Sheva said:

I dont think this is on Potter or the new owners.

This goes way back and we have scrapped top 4 on the last games of the season under Lampard and Tuchel.

This is poor recruitment and faith in players that are simply not good enough for us. The club needs stability of a top manager who is willing to buy into a project and I'd like Potter to be that guy but usually if the players buy into what you are doing you get a shift out of them. We should know by now that we are in familiar terrority of the manager getting sacked and I think this is down to a long term problem of us never ever replacing the quality core group of players that we've had.

Kante, Terry, Hazard, Costa, Fabregas, Courtois and Willian and the spine core group of players we had before that was Lampard, Cech, Terry and Drogba and co. We always had a good core and now we don't have any of those to fall back on, we just have kids and manager signings like Jorginho. Player power used to be the thing we always used to get called out on. You don't hear it now do you? There's no personality or experience in our squad anymore.. Roman always used to try and get the best managers about to get a shift out of what he's got and usually it worked.

Now it's finally all caught up to us.

Youth is not the answer, do you think that game for them today was a good experience to get thrashed by City? Ideally youth players should be brought in when we're winning with what we have. Glamourising youth over what we got is such bad idea because it overhypes mediocrity and puts pressure on kids to please a fanbase and also win.

It's sad for Potter but that's the nature of the business, I know there's alot of injuires but even with our first starting 11 I dont think much changes because Tuchel couldn't get a tune out of them either. If he does get sacked he will easily get another job. I have no idea who could replace him because who are the top available managers out there that are willing to buy into a long term plan.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I don't think we would have got top 4 this year under Tuchel, we most likely finish 5th/6th around 65-70 points. We'll be lucky to finish 8th if Potter stays, things only seem to be getting worse.

28 minutes ago, Argo said:

Absolute barest of bare minimum requirement I will expect our defensive record and league record to improve on what we've had with Jorgi.

Our average finish with Jorginho has been 3rd/4th with the goals conceded record tending to be in the late 30s (one of which he had Luiz, Kepa, Alonso and a pre Tuchel Rudiger behind him). So us strongly pushing for top 2 with at most early 30's on the goal against tally is surely not asking for much of a supposed transformative upgrade no?

Also for all of Jorginho's faults we have managed in head to heads to go toe to toe with elite sides and sometimes even pass them of the pitch, so I'd expect Rice to maintain that which I don't think is too much to ask of a supposed upgrade.

And for the record I'd be holding Enzo to similar high standards aswell if by some miracle we recover this deal. The key difference is I think he can live upto them.

In my opinion that’s down to the team rather than an individual. Obviously Jorginho has played his parts in those seasons. You could also say that we are 10th this season whilst having Jorginho in the team. Neither are because of the performance of anyone individual player but the team as a whole. In my opinion it will take us a lot more than just  Rice/ Enzo signing to push us closer to the top 2, so to decide if Rice will be an upgrade based on that is slightly harsh. We’ve not really been close to the top 2 in the league  points wise since Jorginho has been here either, but again that is more down to the overall team performance than Jorginho specifically. 

I definitely agree, Jorginho has been good in plenty of games, and as @Drogba1 said I thought he was immense in the champions league final, and in the run up to the final too. I actually think he was better for us under Tuchel than he was any other manager, and agree that we have passed teams off the park when he has played. If Rice comes I don’t think he will be coming to play that passing role though. I see him more as a “destroyer” type and can see him at the base of a midfield 3 with 2 more creative midfielders alongside him, or as part of a pivot with a creative midfielder along side him. Like when we had Fabregas and Matic in 14/15.

The truth is nobody really knows how Rice will do if he were to come here, all I know is I’d treat him the same as I do everyone else in the team. If he’s playing well I’d praise him, and if he’s playing badly he’d be criticised. But if you’re holding him to the standard of taking us closer to the top 2 on his own then I just feel like that’s setting him up for failure. 

7 minutes ago, Sheva said:

I dont think this is on Potter or the new owners.

This goes way back and we have scrapped top 4 on the last games of the season under Lampard and Tuchel.

This is poor recruitment and faith in players that are simply not good enough for us. The club needs stability of a top manager who is willing to buy into a project and I'd like Potter to be that guy but usually if the players buy into what you are doing you get a shift out of them. We should know by now that we are in familiar terrority of the manager getting sacked and I think this is down to a long term problem of us never ever replacing the quality core group of players that we've had.

Kante, Terry, Hazard, Costa, Fabregas, Courtois and Willian and the spine core group of players we had before that was Lampard, Cech, Terry and Drogba and co. We always had a good core and now we don't have any of those to fall back on, we just have kids and manager signings like Jorginho. Player power used to be the thing we always used to get called out on. You don't hear it now do you? There's no personality or experience in our squad anymore.. Roman always used to try and get the best managers about to get a shift out of what he's got and usually it worked.

Now it's finally all caught up to us.

Youth is not the answer, do you think that game for them today was a good experience to get thrashed by City? Ideally youth players should be brought in when we're winning with what we have. Glamourising youth over what we got is such bad idea because it overhypes mediocrity and puts pressure on kids to please a fanbase and also win.

It's sad for Potter but that's the nature of the business, I know there's alot of injuires but even with our first starting 11 I dont think much changes because Tuchel couldn't get a tune out of them either. If he does get sacked he will easily get another job. I have no idea who could replace him because who are the top available managers out there that are willing to buy into a long term plan.

Good post Sheva and I agree with most of it. The one opinion in there I'm not in sync with is your point on using young players. The only factors that should be considered by the manager IMO are; are they physically ready and are they better than the regular player already in possession of that shirt? That's it for me. Ability. Age should not be part of the equation.

 

 

1 minute ago, just said:

Good post Sheva and I agree with most of it. The one opinion in there I'm not in sync with is your point on using young players. The only factors that should be considered by the manager IMO are; are they physically ready and are they better than the regular player already in possession of that shirt? That's it for me. Ability. Age should not be part of the equation.

 

 

Playing young players has benefits in the long run as they will improve more. Lampard's first season helped us develop Reece James and Tomori (who should never have been sold) for example.

2 minutes ago, drjonesy1994 said:

 

The truth is nobody really knows how Rice will do if he were to come here, all I know is I’d treat him the same as I do everyone else in the team. If he’s playing well I’d praise him, and if he’s playing badly he’d be criticised. But if you’re holding him to the standard of taking us closer to the top 2 on his own then I just feel like that’s setting him up for failure. 

That is your normal way of reflecting on players but the problem is that some people have said that as soon as we upgrade on Jorginho or simply start playing someone else, that we will challange for league titles automatically, and I've read here takes about how Rice is apparently the best midfielder in the whole league... If any of that is true, there is no reason not to expect us finishing top 4 with Rice, that would be the minimum after how much hype he has had.

Will all of that change if we do sign him and will there be a massive amount of excuses and dodging if we don't get to finish top 4? I have no doubts about it.

1 minute ago, Drogba1 said:

Playing young players has benefits in the long run as they will improve more. Lampard's first season helped us develop Reece James and Tomori (who should never have been sold) for example.

Take your point Drogba and agree, but I could kinda see why we were prepared to let Tomori go. He was strong and a fine athlete, but we saw at times he could mentally switch off and make rash decisions. 

 

 

Even if I don't think he's the right man to lead this rebuild through 3-4 years, I don't really mind if Potter stays till the end of the season AS LONG as we go hard for the youth project, just don't get relegated. Tuchel won't be coming back anyway so might as well keep the guy and revaluate the next season from what we show from now on. 

Forget about playing KK, Sterling, Jorginho, Auba etc to keep them happy or keep their value from decreasing. None of them are truly inspiring players, we won't get anything back from these players anymore and there's really no point in them sticking around if we're not running for titles. Thiago is a proper leader/mentor so he should be kept playing if he wants to so our other defenders learn from him, but everyone else is just a burden at this point. Just get those boys playing hard and with desire to make something happen, can't possibly be worse than what we've seen so far.

 

 

Playing too many young players does put extra pressure on them. Also they hit a wall after 4-5 games in a row due to the step up.

To be successful you don’t want them making big mistakes, look at Christieson after the Barcelona game. Took ages to recover and then had nerve issues before games.

11 minutes ago, just said:

Good post Sheva and I agree with most of it. The one opinion in there I'm not in sync with is your point on using young players. The only factors that should be considered by the manager IMO are; are they physically ready and are they better than the regular player already in possession of that shirt? That's it for me. Ability. Age should not be part of the equation.

 

 

I actually agree with Sheva's point. Bringing a couple of exciting youngsters into a well drilled, structured side gives them the opportunity to flourish. Throwing groups of youngsters into a team rock bottom in confidence,  players possibly undermining the manager and his philosophy, just opens them up to the possibility of detrimentally affecting their career. 

Apparently some people on social media were already slating the young lad Hurchinson after his first game. That's crazy. You can clearly see that the lad needs time to beef up and bed himself into the side. Not to be thrown to the wolves when in reality he us surrounded by sh*thouses.

3 minutes ago, Gol15 said:

That is your normal way of reflecting on players but the problem is that some people have said that as soon as we upgrade on Jorginho or simply start playing someone else, that we will challange for league titles automatically, and I've read here takes about how Rice is apparently the best midfielder in the whole league... If any of that is true, there is no reason not to expect us finishing top 4 with Rice, that would be the minimum after how much hype he has had.

Will all of that change if we do sign him and will there be a massive amount of excuses and dodging if we don't get to finish top 4? I have no doubts about it.

Probably not a question for me as I don’t think he’s the best midfielder in the league  nor do I think he will automatically bridge the difference to the top 2/4 on his own. All I know is I’ll call it as I see it, if he’s playing well I’ll say so, and likewise if I think he’s playing poorly. 
 

2 minutes ago, WhiteWall said:

I actually agree with Sheva's point. Bringing a couple of exciting youngsters into a well drilled, structured side gives them the opportunity to flourish. Throwing groups of youngsters into a team rock bottom in confidence,  players possibly undermining the manager and his philosophy, just opens them up to the possibility of detrimentally affecting their career. 

Apparently some people on social media were already slating the young lad Hurchinson after his first game. That's crazy. You can clearly see that the lad needs time to beef up and bed himself into the side. Not to be thrown to the wolves when in reality he us surrounded by sh*thouses.

Crazy that Hutchinson was being slated after that, it was his first game for us against the league champions. 

14 minutes ago, drjonesy1994 said:

In my opinion that’s down to the team rather than an individual. Obviously Jorginho has played his parts in those seasons. You could also say that we are 10th this season whilst having Jorginho in the team. Neither are because of the performance of anyone individual player but the team as a whole. In my opinion it will take us a lot more than just  Rice/ Enzo signing to push us closer to the top 2, so to decide if Rice will be an upgrade based on that is slightly harsh. We’ve not really been close to the top 2 in the league  points wise since Jorginho has been here either, but again that is more down to the overall team performance than Jorginho specifically. 

I definitely agree, Jorginho has been good in plenty of games, and as @Drogba1 said I thought he was immense in the champions league final, and in the run up to the final too. I actually think he was better for us under Tuchel than he was any other manager, and agree that we have passed teams off the park when he has played. If Rice comes I don’t think he will be coming to play that passing role though. I see him more as a “destroyer” type and can see him at the base of a midfield 3 with 2 more creative midfielders alongside him, or as part of a pivot with a creative midfielder along side him. Like when we had Fabregas and Matic in 14/15.

The truth is nobody really knows how Rice will do if he were to come here, all I know is I’d treat him the same as I do everyone else in the team. If he’s playing well I’d praise him, and if he’s playing badly he’d be criticised. But if you’re holding him to the standard of taking us closer to the top 2 on his own then I just feel like that’s setting him up for failure. 

Personally I think you have to factor price tag and other factors into things.

Take Lukaku/Broja for example. A £97m signing who doesn't do the hard graft off the ball and compromised a UCL winning system has to be expected to deliever hard substance and deserves the flack he gets when he doesn't deliver, I had the standards for him at Hazard level if not higher (substance wise I know he's not the same player) not because I thought he could reach that level but because he was getting/giving himself the same type of excemptions Eden got so that's the standards.

Compare that to Broja, many may disagree but i personally thought he was average to poor when he played this season but because he's younger, works hard to somewhat compensate and didn't cost a dime then he rightly didn't get even a tiny fraction of the critisism Lukaku got.

9 minutes ago, Gol15 said:

That is your normal way of reflecting on players but the problem is that some people have said that as soon as we upgrade on Jorginho or simply start playing someone else, that we will challange for league titles automatically, and I've read here takes about how Rice is apparently the best midfielder in the whole league... If any of that is true, there is no reason not to expect us finishing top 4 with Rice, that would be the minimum after how much hype he has had.

Will all of that change if we do sign him and will there be a massive amount of excuses and dodging if we don't get to finish top 4? I have no doubts about it.

That's clear then. Declan Rice arrives and we have to finish top 4 otherwise he's a fail. I like it. Infallible logic at play here. Imagine, just hypothetically like, he plays the first game of next season and like Kante has a complete barn-storming performance, but then, like Kante, gets injured after 75 minutes and misses 95% of the matches afterwards. But....... we still finish 4th? Does that then mean he will have been a success in your book?

Personally I'm not overly fussed if Rice comes or not. If he does, and he's what Potter wants, fair enough. But if he plays like Jorginho played tonight, (and usually plays), I'll pretty soon want him gone. One thing I have noticed watching Basmati Rice, as you have so creatively nick-named him, is he doesn't bottle challenges. I think we can all agree that would be a plus point in Basmati's favour.

3 minutes ago, just said:

That's clear then. Declan Rice arrives and we have to finish top 4 otherwise he's a fail. I like it. Infallible logic at play here. Imagine, just hypothetically like, he plays the first game of next season and like Kante has a complete barn-storming performance, but then, like Kante, gets injured after 75 minutes and misses 95% of the matches afterwards. But....... we still finish 4th? Does that then mean he will have been a success in your book?

Personally I'm not overly fussed if Rice comes or not. If he does, and he's what Potter wants, fair enough. But if he plays like Jorginho played tonight, (and usually plays), I'll pretty soon want him gone. One thing I have noticed watching Basmati Rice, as you have so creatively nick-named him, is he doesn't bottle challenges. I think we can all agree that would be a plus point in Basmati's favour.

It's not me that set the rules, I just play the game. If you say that as soon as Jorginho leaves that we will be challenging for league titles then surely if Rice comes a top 4 should be the bare minimum for us? Otherwise if he doesn't play then why would anyone deem him as a success?

Either way, the logic is very simple, whoever comes is an upgrade on Jorginho and thus an upgrade on the whole squad. So it's only fair to react towards that new player with the same standard, if he doesn't get a lot of assists someone should conclude that he's clearly not like Fabregas and if we fail to finish top 4 it would mean that he's worse than Jorginho!

I have become disillusioned with our team. In 25 year as a chelsea fan this past year has being the worse. 

I feel no connection or emotions anymore as if this is not Chelsea but rather a team pretending to be chelsea and wearing chelsea colours.

I remember Wise wasn't the best or the biggest midfielder in the world but if he couldn't get the ball he would break your leg. Zola would run circles at man utd defence. 

We weren't always the best but up to recent years most of our teams showed that they cared, showed heart. 

Now apart from Silva no one seems too bothered and that pisses me off. 

We’ve not seen anything to encourage us so far, we got a new manager bounce, but actually the football was dire from the get go.

I don’t see a ‘project’ I see a scattergun approach to everything, from signings, tactics & team selections.

Fortunately their are worse teams than us in the league, but I see us having our lowest finish in nearly 30 years.

The blame lies squarely at TB’s door, with zero experience he should have begged the old regime to stay in place until he had put his own people with knowledge in place.

As for GP, he’s sinking fast, the step from Brighton to Chelsea was far to big for him, he’s probably ruined his career.

3 minutes ago, Wearyourcolours said:

We’ve not seen anything to encourage us so far, we got a new manager bounce, but actually the football was dire from the get go.

I don’t see a ‘project’ I see a scattergun approach to everything, from signings, tactics & team selections.

Fortunately their are worse teams than us in the league, but I see us having our lowest finish in nearly 30 years.

The blame lies squarely at TB’s door, with zero experience he should have begged the old regime to stay in place until he had put his own people with knowledge in place.

As for GP, he’s sinking fast, the step from Brighton to Chelsea was far to big for him, he’s probably ruined his career.

I don't think he's ruined his career, the media will say 'sacked too soon' and he'll probably get a job at a decent Premier League side, maybe even a Tottenham. 

Thought this was interesting. After the Forest game I checked and Potter was 20/1 to be next to leave. After today he’s dropped to 5/1. Obviously means nothing in the grand scheme of things and it’s influenced by people placing bets but he’s had such a reduction in odds in the last week.

1 minute ago, Gol15 said:

It's not me that set the rules, I just play the game. If you say that as soon as Jorginho leaves that we will be challenging for league titles then surely if Rice comes a top 4 should be the bare minimum for us? Otherwise if he doesn't play then why would anyone deem him as a success?

Either way, the logic is very simple, whoever comes is an upgrade on Jorginho and thus an upgrade on the whole squad. So it's only fair to react towards that new player with the same standard, if he doesn't get a lot of assists someone should conclude that he's clearly not like Fabregas and if we fail to finish top 4 it would mean that he's worse than Jorginho!

Not me that's said that Gol. My point has always been that we can bring in a player who will give us more than Jorginho does. More physicality, more pace, more adaptability etc. Will that make us a better team? In my opinion, hopefully, yes. In that particular area of the pitch I think it probably will. However, does that one player change mean we will then be immediately challenging for the EPL title? I wouldn't be so naive (or daft), to suggest that should automatically follow. The world, life and indeed football, are rarely as Black & White simplistic as that Gol.

Incidentally if we finish 9th this year, a season in which Jorginho has played a significant part, does that mean we would only have to finish 9th or better next time round for Rice to be deemed a success?

5 minutes ago, drjonesy1994 said:

Thought this was interesting. After the Forest game I checked and Potter was 20/1 to be next to leave. After today he’s dropped to 5/1. Obviously means nothing in the grand scheme of things and it’s influenced by people placing bets but he’s had such a reduction in odds in the last week.

As the market is smaller on managers being sacked, it doesn’t take a major amount of money to be placed for the odds to be changed so significantly. Bookies react accordingly and shave the odds but keep a margin for themselves.

17 minutes ago, Gentian said:

I have become disillusioned with our team. In 25 year as a chelsea fan this past year has being the worse. 

I feel no connection or emotions anymore as if this is not Chelsea but rather a team pretending to be chelsea and wearing chelsea colours.

I remember Wise wasn't the best or the biggest midfielder in the world but if he couldn't get the ball he would break your leg. Zola would run circles at man utd defence. 

We weren't always the best but up to recent years most of our teams showed that they cared, showed heart. 

Now apart from Silva no one seems too bothered and that pisses me off. 

I'd add James to Silva but I take your point. 

I think football has moved on from players specifically caring about the club or fans. In recent successful  years there has been likes of Terry, Drogba, Cech, Cudicini, Lampard etc who you felt were genuinely affected by some sort of affiliation and duty to the club and the fans. Before we were regulaly succesful I'd say the same for likes of Wise, Zola, Gudjohnsen, Di Matteo, Vialli, Newton, Petrescu etc.

Football now has no real mirror to that. The likes of Pulisic, Jorginho, Kovacic, Havertz, Ziyech etc etc etc.  Just people earning a career, which they are entitled to do obviously, but we will never remember them fondly.