13 minutes ago, timetowaste said:

If that was Chelsea our fans would have been hounding Arteta out even quicker than some are with Potter

Edited 5 minutes ago by timetowaste

He got off to a much better start at Arsenal than most give him credit for. Soundly beat United in his 3rd game which gave him early credit. Shortly after the drew us at Stamford Bridge and then went on a bit of a run winning 6 out of 8 games in the league. Then shortly after that run he beat Liverpool.

I agree with what ducavis says though. If the league season is over, and let's be honest, it probably is we should lean into giving the youngsters a chance and see who's ready for next season.

 

45 minutes ago, OriginalS said:

He got off to a much better start at Arsenal than most give him credit for. Soundly beat United in his 3rd game which gave him early credit. Shortly after the drew us at Stamford Bridge and then went on a bit of a run winning 6 out of 8 games in the league. Then shortly after that run he beat Liverpool.

That wasn't true, the United game was his only win in like his first 7/8 league games (all be it Chelsea at The Emirates his only defeat) then they beat a Steve Bruce Newcastle and got outplayed by West Ham (similar to our second half vs Forest but the full game) before sh*thousing a result then it was lockdown then they lost their first two games after returning, so his start was something like 3 league wins in 10 with the metrics saying he was actually overachieving. And if beating that United game gives Arteta early credit surely same applies to Milan here? They're better than that United team and Pioli is most certainly a better manager than Ole.

Also (a point that further expands on Arsenal getting better than they deserved back then) that draw at Stamford Bridge was nothing to do with his tactics unless he knew Kante was going to slip. We out shot them by something ridiculous like 24 to 2 and they barely entered our half.

2 hours ago, ducavis said:

Porter needs to be playing those players, this is why I am a bit confused about the project here. We are on 25pts, and need 15pts from 22 games to be safe. We aren’t getting CL next season, so there is no reason why he can’t fast track their development now and see who can nail a 1st 18 squad role in the next 4mths. Arteta came in and Saka, Rowe & Martinelli immediately became mainstays in his match day squad, took him less than 10 PL games to ice Ozil permanently. 

It’s all well and good buying all these young talents, but they are not magically going to reach their potential by been stuck in the Development squad or riding the bench. 

Smith Rowe and Martinelli were barely used for the first year. It wasn't until Willian and Auba couldn't face us on boxing day 2020 he started using them.

10 minutes ago, Argo said:

That wasn't true, the United game was his only win in like his first 7/8 league games (all be it Chelsea at The Emirates his only defeat) then they beat a Steve Bruce Newcastle and got outplayed by West Ham (similar to our second half vs Forest but the full game) before sh*thousing a result then it was lockdown then they lost their first two games after returning, so his start was something like 3 league wins in 10 with the metrics saying he was actually overachieving. And if beating that United game gives Arteta early credit surely same applies to Milan here? They're better than that United team and Pioli is most certainly a better manager than Ole.

Took over a team that had won 1 of their last 11 games, losing 4 of them.

Next 10 PL games after Arteta they won 4 and lost only 1.

Improvement was obvious.

3 minutes ago, OriginalS said:

Took over a team that had won 1 of their last 11 games, losing 4 of them.

Next 10 PL games after Arteta they won 4 and lost only 1.

Improvement was obvious.

Maybe, but it was "improvement" the same way Hiddink in 15/16 was. Technically so but nothing to shout about.

1 hour ago, OriginalS said:

He got off to a much better start at Arsenal than most give him credit for. Soundly beat United in his 3rd game which gave him early credit. Shortly after the drew us at Stamford Bridge and then went on a bit of a run winning 6 out of 8 games in the league. Then shortly after that run he beat Liverpool.

I agree with what ducavis says though. If the league season is over, and let's be honest, it probably is we should lean into giving the youngsters a chance and see who's ready for next season.

 

Maybe his start wasn’t too bad but they went through an awful run in his 2nd season where they went 7 or 8 games without a win and were bottom half at Christmas before ironically thumping us.

46 minutes ago, Argo said:

Maybe, but it was "improvement" the same way Hiddink in 15/16 was. Technically so but nothing to shout about.

He took them to a big trophy in his first season. By beating Manchester City in the semifinal and then us in the final. Beat us, Liverpool and United in the league as well after he took over in December with a defence that usually consisted of Luiz and Mustafi...

Arteta was showing things from the very start.

1 minute ago, OriginalS said:

He took them to a big trophy in his first season. By beating Manchester City in the semifinal and then us in the final. Beat us, Liverpool and United in the league as well after he took over in December with a defence that usually consisted of Luiz and Mustafi...

Arteta was showing things from the very start.

He didn't beat us in the league that season (we were by far the better team twice despite somehow conspiring to draw one of them) and Liverpool already won the league, that would be like Tony Pulis getting praised for beating us after we won the title in 2015.

The FA Cup wasn't in the period I talked about but we can address that aswell (and even that was more a combo of Taylor and Pulisic pulling up when he was about to score one of the best goals in cup final history as it was his tactics).

Since the millennium alone Redknapp, Martinez and Rodgers also won the FA Cup. If we stretch it to the league cup then you'll find names like McLeish, Laudrup, McLaren and Souness.

And regarding Luiz and Mustafi, he gave the former a new deal and offered the latter one, if Potter does that to our equivalents this place would crash.

Sadly it appears like Arteta has worked out/stumbled across a way to get Arsenal competitive but there's a lot of rewriting of history when it comes to his early reign. Let's just say there's a reason Emi Martinez managed to go from a footballing nobody to getting a huge move on the back of a very short period of time.

40 minutes ago, Argo said:

He didn't beat us in the league that season (we were by far the better team twice despite somehow conspiring to draw one of them) and Liverpool already won the league, that would be like Tony Pulis getting praised for beating us after we won the title in 2015.

The FA Cup wasn't in the period I talked about but we can address that aswell (and even that was more a combo of Taylor and Pulisic pulling up when he was about to score one of the best goals in cup final history as it was his tactics).

Since the millennium alone Redknapp, Martinez and Rodgers also won the FA Cup. If we stretch it to the league cup then you'll find names like McLeish, Laudrup, McLaren and Souness.

And regarding Luiz and Mustafi, he gave the former a new deal and offered the latter one, if Potter does that to our equivalents this place would crash.

Sadly it appears like Arteta has worked out/stumbled across a way to get Arsenal competitive but there's a lot of rewriting of history when it comes to his early reign. Let's just say there's a reason Emi Martinez managed to go from a footballing nobody to getting a huge move on the back of a very short period of time.

One could knitpick everything if one wants. You could pick apart all of Potter's win here so far too if you want.

You don't rate Arteta and are probably colored by that.

 

2 hours ago, OriginalS said:

He got off to a much better start at Arsenal than most give him credit for. Soundly beat United in his 3rd game which gave him early credit. Shortly after the drew us at Stamford Bridge and then went on a bit of a run winning 6 out of 8 games in the league. Then shortly after that run he beat Liverpool.

I agree with what ducavis says though. If the league season is over, and let's be honest, it probably is we should lean into giving the youngsters a chance and see who's ready for next season.

 

The season is over!? We are only 7 points behind United with 22 games left. 

If that's the season over then Arsenal have already won the league. 

21 minutes ago, OriginalS said:

You don't rate Arteta and are probably colored by that.

I didn't but ill happily hold my hands up if/when he ends the season with Arsenal winning the title or atleast comes extremely close.

22 minutes ago, OriginalS said:

One could knitpick everything if one wants. You could pick apart all of Potter's win here so far too if you want.

And by equal measure you're praising him for things Potter has an equivalent/better off.

The win over Milan was a lot better an achievement than beating that United due to the respective manager's in the dugout alone while you used Arteta getting a result at Stamford Bridge despite the team being poor as a means to praise him, well i take it on that basis you were also praising Potter after his equivalents? (Against Villa and United).

17 minutes ago, Argo said:

And by equal measure you're praising him for things Potter has an equivalent/better off.

The win over Milan was a lot better an achievement than beating that United due to the respective manager's in the dugout alone while you used Arteta getting a result at Stamford Bridge despite the team being poor as a means to praise him, well i take it on that basis you were also praising Potter after his equivalents? (Against Villa and United).

Like what? It's not like Arteta took over a team that finished 3rd and beat Real Madrid at the Bernabeu a few short months before he took over so expectations will be different for Potter.

I'm not saying this because I think Potter should be sacked. I don't think he should, at least not yet.
But the Arteta example is a flawed one because he improved Arsenal from the start. Ups and downs along the way which everyone would accept but at least so far Potter have not show anything to suggest he's improved us and that's what he needs to do.

He's not even being compared to prime Tuchel, that would just be unfair on him as chances are that he will never get close to that level. But can he improve on burned out Tuchel that had just been through a club crisis, marriage crisis and Covid crisis all simultaneously? That's what he needs to do.

 

Edited January 3, 20233 yr by OriginalS

24 minutes ago, OriginalS said:

Well, if I did what you've done I would mention that AC Milan were ravaged by injuries and could hardly put up much of a challenge.

I mean, ofcourse you could but then surely on the same basis it's fair to apply no James/Kante/Fofana/Chilwell/Kova tax on many of our games after? Not to mention the club loaning out (going by the metrics of last season) our most creative player just before he arrived.

And for the record I'm far from fully sold on Potter so far.

24 minutes ago, OriginalS said:

Like what? It's not like Arteta took over a team that finished 3rd and beat Real Madrid at the Bernabeu a few short months before he took over so expectations will be different for Potter.

He took over a team that finished one point off the top four (and two points off a Hazard inspired Chelsea) and finished top four every season but one in the two decades prior to that.

Then in his first 18 months outdone Wenger's worst ever finish twice, yes the same Wenger who Arsenal fans protested against and all of Arsenal's rivals were relentlessly chanting "we want you to stay" at for the best part of his final decade incharge. So on that basis Arteta should be held to the standards of outdoing the Wenger of that period given Arsenal fans wanted him out and rival fans were laughing at him, which in fairness he is (hundreds of millions spent and rectifying a huge cock up he made two years on the spin in loaning out Saliba later) finally oncourse to do.

Edited January 3, 20233 yr by Argo

13 hours ago, timetowaste said:

Well this is the reason we're spending big money on youngsters, of course that is a risk but if the players we've signed fulfill their potential then we won't need to spend £200m+ every season. We've laid out big money on players who are all under 22

Chukwemeka

Casadei

Slonina

Santos

Fernandez (possibly)

Fofana 1

Fofana 2

Badiashile

Hutchinson

On top of that giving big contracts to James and Broja. We're also probably signing Nkunku who's 25. And this is without including our promising academy players like Hall, Colwill, Webster

Your argument would be a lot more agreeable if Potter had been playing the youth more at the right positions. 

So far, he only picks the senior players and only brings on youth at the 85 minute mark for league games

 

Why the f**k is everyone comparing Potter ti Arteta, and Chelsea to Arsenal?

It is irrelevant what Arteta does at Arsenal. It is irrelevant what Ranieri did at Leicester, what OGS did at United or what Don Conte is not doing at Spurs.

We are the chelsea and we are the best....you know how the rest goes.

Back on track - our team has been rotten for a long time. A string of managers have kept the bandwagon rolling to varying degrees - but have never solved the ultimate problem, which is a soft underbelly, a toothless spine. Wins and top 4 finishes (at least 2 of which were more down to others bottling it than us deserving it) have masked the issue to an extent. But it is time to rip the plasters off. It will be painful and gory - but it is for the greater good. 

2 minutes ago, nonotnowjim said:

Why the f**k is everyone comparing Potter ti Arteta, and Chelsea to Arsenal?

It is irrelevant what Arteta does at Arsenal. It is irrelevant what Ranieri did at Leicester, what OGS did at United or what Don Conte is not doing at Spurs.

We are the chelsea and we are the best....you know how the rest goes.

Back on track - our team has been rotten for a long time. A string of managers have kept the bandwagon rolling to varying degrees - but have never solved the ultimate problem, which is a soft underbelly, a toothless spine. Wins and top 4 finishes (at least 2 of which were more down to others bottling it than us deserving it) have masked the issue to an extent. But it is time to rip the plasters off. It will be painful and gory - but it is for the greater good. 

Amen to that, we need a new spine.

We have James to be part of it...and that's it. Silva would be but age means he wont be here for many more years.

 

Along with James we need to find a new spine and rebuild what we once had

 

Cech --- ?

 

Paulo --- James

Ricky ---- Fofana?

JT--- ?

Ash --- ?

 

Maka ---- ?

Essien ---- Santos?

Lampard ---- Enzo?

 

Drogba ---- ?

 

The other 2 attackers will do a lot better with solid leadership and strength around them and behind them.

The Athletic reporting that Potter and the recruitment team view the midfield as a priority above all else. 

Just more brownie points for Potter. 

Just now, Sconnie Blue said:

The Athletic reporting that Potter and the recruitment team view the midfield as a priority above all else. 

Just more brownie points for Potter. 

This could mean anything the way things are going.

4 minutes ago, Sconnie Blue said:

The Athletic reporting that Potter and the recruitment team view the midfield as a priority above all else. 

Just more brownie points for Potter. 

As they should.

47 minutes ago, nonotnowjim said:

But it is time to rip the plasters off.

I agree with your post. But how do you suggest we "rip the plasters off" ?

Does it include buy a whole bunch of new players and hope it works out? If so we've tried that before.

Some new players will likely help and hopefully we bring someone in but a cohesive system and a side that plays as a team and not 11 individuals would help a whole lot more than any signing we could possibly make in my opinion.

 

19 minutes ago, OriginalS said:

I agree with your post. But how do you suggest we "rip the plasters off" ?

Offload players window after window. Starting with the most likely we can recoup funds from. Gallagher, Pulisic, Ziyech, etc. 

 

1 hour ago, axman2526 said:

Amen to that, we need a new spine.

We have James to be part of it...and that's it. Silva would be but age means he wont be here for many more years.

 

Along with James we need to find a new spine and rebuild what we once had

 

Cech --- ?

 

Paulo --- James

Ricky ---- Fofana?

JT--- ?

Ash --- ?

 

Maka ---- ?

Essien ---- Santos?

Lampard ---- Enzo?

 

Drogba ---- ?

 

The other 2 attackers will do a lot better with solid leadership and strength around them and behind them.

Aaah that TEAM on the left.

2 hours ago, nonotnowjim said:

Why the f**k is everyone comparing Potter ti Arteta, and Chelsea to Arsenal?

It is irrelevant what Arteta does at Arsenal. It is irrelevant what Ranieri did at Leicester, what OGS did at United or what Don Conte is not doing at Spurs.

We are the chelsea and we are the best....you know how the rest goes.

Back on track - our team has been rotten for a long time. A string of managers have kept the bandwagon rolling to varying degrees - but have never solved the ultimate problem, which is a soft underbelly, a toothless spine. Wins and top 4 finishes (at least 2 of which were more down to others bottling it than us deserving it) have masked the issue to an extent. But it is time to rip the plasters off. It will be painful and gory - but it is for the greater good. 

What I for the life of me can't understand is how Chelsea fans have such extensive knowledge about the style of football and the form Arsenal were in 5 years ago.

4 hours ago, Deino said:

Your argument would be a lot more agreeable if Potter had been playing the youth more at the right positions. 

So far, he only picks the senior players and only brings on youth at the 85 minute mark for league games

 

So because Potter's not sticking new 19 year old signings that have hardly played any senior football into Chelsea's starting line up a few months into his tenure at not even the halfway point of the season my point isn't agreeable?

Mate just be patient, this is a long term project.

If the skeptics want some form of assurance, here. 

Potter has been here for a few months and has already identified the midfield as an area that needs massive improving on. Tuchel had been here for 2 years and didn't address it once. We should feel slightly optimistic we now have a manager that can identify key areas that need improving on, along with his track record of developing young players. 

40 minutes ago, bluehaze said:

What I for the life of me can't understand is how Chelsea fans have such extensive knowledge about the style of football and the form Arsenal were in 5 years ago.

We were in effectively a year long lockdown, there wasn't exactly a great deal of things to do.