2 hours ago, True Blue23 said:

Thanks, similar to my own assessment. I would also like to get Kudus. He's versatile and looks a proper talent. Not sure if Veiga's necessary anymore though after those two. We'd have Nkunku, Carney and Kudus for the AMC spot and Enzo, Caicedo, Conor and Casadei/Santos for the CM spots. If we decide to get another CM I'd rather go for somebody a bit more defensive than Veiga. A Lavia, Kone, Thuram type of player (not talking about them specifically just profile).

I agree that we basically have zero DMs currently so recruiting a starter and a backup is a sound idea. At the best I have doubts about most of our midfielders. At the worst, I don't believe they are long term Chelsea players so I would argue for some serious recruiting in that area. I am not fully confident about any of the current crew bar Enzo.

I believe that if ManU wanted what Mason can deliver, then Viega is the player they should have bought. Similar M.O. but at a higher level in my view. Works, contributes in all phases and would justify a lot of minutes across the season.

2 hours ago, TheCeleryKing said:

🤔

Well, I think Brighton have known for some time that Moises Caicedo wants to leave.  WANTS to leave, is more than a preference. He has agreed personal terms with Chelsea after all.  Brighton have known since the Arsenal bid on Caicedo in January. The player wants to leave. The replacement 'just in case' plan is in reality an inevitability plan. 

Who has the upper hand in this? 3 sides to this deal. 2 clubs and one player. Chelsea and the player are in agreement on one side and Brighton is on the other side.  In the final analysis that should give Chelsea the upper hand. But then again it is Todd Chelsea. Ho-Ho-ho.

 

If we have the upper hand, and you are Todd, or any other member of the crew, how do you play it? How do you sell Brighton the idea of accepting £80m now, rather than holding out?

Edited July 28, 20232 yr by OhForAGreavsie

1 hour ago, True Blue23 said:

53 is young? 😱

Haha, it is when you’re only a decade away from it! 

2 hours ago, OhForAGreavsie said:

If we have the upper hand, and you are Todd, or any other member of the crew, how do you play it? How do you sell Brighton the idea of accepting £80m now, rather than holding out?

hire a private detective to get dirt on the brighton owner

a russian style kompromat

Edited July 28, 20232 yr by azpi28

1 hour ago, OhForAGreavsie said:

If we have the upper hand, and you are Todd, or any other member of the crew, how do you play it? How do you sell Brighton the idea of accepting £80m now, rather than holding out?

Sell? We are not selling. We are buying. lol.   How should they play it? Well they are the billionaires and they should know a lot more about business than me.  I work in the Arts. .  . . . that said, we have players and they need players. They really NEED players.  We have an Academy full of talent and riches and that is an ongoing scenario.  They have taken players from us in the past, Lamptey, Gilmour and Levi on loan.  We can start there.

Roman and his friends knew how to get deals done 

The document contains details of another rigged auction two years later, involving a Russian oil company called Slavneft.

Abramovich formed a partnership with another firm to buy Slavneft, but a rival Chinese company was planning to bid almost twice as much.

Many powerful people - from the Kremlin to the Russian parliament - would have stood to lose out if the Chinese won the auction.

The document says that a member of the Chinese delegation was kidnapped when they arrived in Moscow for the auction.

"CNPC, Chinese company, a very strong competitor, had to withdraw from the auction after one of its representatives was kidnapped upon arrival at Moscow Airport and was released only after the company declared its withdrawal."

Mr Abramovich's lawyers say allegations of corruption in the Slavneft and Sibneft deals are false, and he denies he was protected by Yeltsin.

Edited July 28, 20232 yr by azpi28

To me Brighton doing what they should so not particularly a bad thing but what's bad is we have previously given them "gifts" in our players we sold to them at reasonable amounts yet they fleeced us last summer for Cucurell, Potter and his team. They have no concept of good faith or relationship building and yet in all this they still came at us about our player with quite frankly insulting and derogatory valuations. 

The only ones that stink in this is Chelsea. Taken for mugs all the time. A player with exactly one year of PL experience is not the type of player we should be acting this way over. The laziness and lack of imagination on our part for alternatives even if as a bargaining tool is astounding. Having an alternative makes the player himself push for the move. He released a heart tugging post about going to Arsenal and they still didn't let him go. 

Even if we could afford £101m is that what our priority should be? For a player at his level of experience that has achieved exactly what in the game so far? Tidy passing and sweeping the midfield well? There are winners out there that we can tempt, them and their top clubs, playing football and winning things at a level Brighton can only dream of for less than the so called £80m rejected bid. 

Frankly in my opinion, we need our heads examined as this can only go one way. Sometime you just need to look at your history. Signing expensive duds time and time again doesn't prove that this will be the case again but do we really need to go for a near £100m signing every year?  

Since Pep arrived, a man who everyone likes to deflect and diminish his brilliance by pointing to huge sums he spends has really only ever bought players over £60m twice. Rodri and Ruben Dias and a £100m player in Grealish. In same time we have done so 6 times. In the same time period he has won 5 titles and we have won the grand total of 1 in a season when we didn't particularly splurge. 

We should focus on developing our team and building it holistically through primarily good structures and management in place rather than trying to spend our way to glory. 

There are more intelligent ways that actually serve the team better than expensive purchases that when you consider things from a wider viewpoint don't even make much sense. 

10 hours ago, TheCeleryKing said:

Sell? We are not selling. We are buying. lol.   How should they play it? Well they are the billionaires and they should know a lot more about business than me.  I work in the Arts. .  . . . that said, we have players and they need players. They really NEED players.  We have an Academy full of talent and riches and that is an ongoing scenario.  They have taken players from us in the past, Lamptey, Gilmour and Levi on loan.  We can start there.

We're attempting to buy a player, but the premise of the post I replied to was that we have the upper hand in the negotiation. I therefore asked how, if we do have the better, we sell them the IDEA of accepting our bid now.

The answer of course, well my answer anyway, is that we don't have the upper hand and have no tools we can use to get them to accept £80m now. They are going to hold out until the end of the window, or until we match their valuation.

Edited July 29, 20232 yr by OhForAGreavsie

1 hour ago, abister1 said:

We should focus on developing our team and building it holistically through primarily good structures and management in place rather than trying to spend our way to glory. 

 

But isn't that also what we're doing with Jackson, Badiashille, Gusto, Colwill etc? 

Having the thoroughly scouted/academy pieces in the team is what should further enable us to spend big when needed. I was in the camp of take it to a certain price then walk away at first but after reading views of Brighton fans and downloading some 90 minute performances of Moises my mind is shifting to spend what it takes. As outrageous as it is to say this £100m for a player of his quality with effectively 5 years left on his deal (given the club option) isn't actually that bad and better than spending £40-50m on a mid alternative like Alvarez or Sangare. Another year of top performances and Brighton are probably quoting around £150m and it will be another Declan Rice situation where he's priced out until he gets into the final year of his contract, and even then we'd probably have to pay the same price or more we will now.

Regarding Pep, that is true he has rarely spent big big yet but what also has to be factored is a lot of the players who served as the spine in his first few titles arrived in a pre Neymar to PSG market, he's won't find it as easy trying to assemble his next core as we're already seeing with the trouble City are having trying to get the Gvardiol deal done.

2 hours ago, OhForAGreavsie said:

 

The answer of course, well my answer anyway, is that we don't have the upper hand

Then it is good that you are not leading our negotiations.  You cannot enter into any negotiation ever on such a weak premise. 

For instance, one option, is that we have players and they need players. They really NEED players.  We have an Academy full of talent and riches and that is an ongoing scenario.  They have taken players from us in the past, Lamptey, Gilmour and Levi on loan.  We can start there.

But no, I am not giving you a blow-by-blow account on how these fantasy negotiations transpire.

 

1 hour ago, Argo said:

But isn't that also what we're doing with Jackson, Badiashille, Gusto, Colwill etc? 

Having the thoroughly scouted/academy pieces in the team is what should further enable us to spend big when needed. I was in the camp of take it to a certain price then walk away at first but after reading views of Brighton fans and downloading some 90 minute performances of Moises my mind is shifting to spend what it takes. As outrageous as it is to say this £100m for a player of his quality with effectively 5 years left on his deal (given the club option) isn't actually that bad and better than spending £40-50m on a mid alternative like Alvarez or Sangare. Another year of top performances and Brighton are probably quoting around £150m and it will be another Declan Rice situation where he's priced out until he gets into the final year of his contract, and even then we'd probably have to pay the same price or more we will now.

Regarding Pep, that is true he has rarely spent big big yet but what also has to be factored is a lot of the players who served as the spine in his first few titles arrived in a pre Neymar to PSG market, he's won't find it as easy trying to assemble his next core as we're already seeing with the trouble City are having trying to get the Gvardiol deal done.

You can be assured that the haaland s of this world don’t join just because gardiola is a good coach. Depending on which site you look at their wages bill is the highest in the league and they have their own ffp issues. I completely agree they have used their budget infinitely better than us but don’t kid yourself they just pick guys out of the pub and turn them into superstars and they play for the love of the game. 

44 minutes ago, ozboy said:

You can be assured that the haaland s of this world don’t join just because gardiola is a good coach. Depending on which site you look at their wages bill is the highest in the league and they have their own ffp issues. I completely agree they have used their budget infinitely better than us but don’t kid yourself they just pick guys out of the pub and turn them into superstars and they play for the love of the game. 

Plus the millions in bitcoin each player receives off the books from the Sheikh.

20 minutes ago, DarkMata said:

Plus the millions in bitcoin each player receives off the books from the Sheikh.

i recently got a call from a bloke in India who said i had 30k in a bitcoin account i opened in 2019 and forgotten about, i don't remember ever having bitcoins but he's from india so i gave him all my info and bank details. I'm now patiently waiting to hear back from him

2 hours ago, TheCeleryKing said:

Then it is good that you are not leading our negotiations.  You cannot enter into any negotiation ever on such a weak premise. 

For instance, one option, is that we have players and they need players. They really NEED players.  We have an Academy full of talent and riches and that is an ongoing scenario.  They have taken players from us in the past, Lamptey, Gilmour and Levi on loan.  We can start there.

But no, I am not giving you a blow-by-blow account on how these fantasy negotiations transpire.

 

Don't get why you think they really NEED players. They have just replaced Colwill with a guy they will probably sell on for a fortune, Enciso replaced McAllister, Bounanotte for Trossard. They are already working on a Caicedo replacement. They had already added Milner for experience.  Not sure why they are in sudden need for replacements. 

17 minutes ago, WhiteWall said:

Don't get why you think they really NEED players. They have just replaced Colwill with a guy they will probably sell on for a fortune, Enciso replaced McAllister, Bounanotte for Trossard. They are already working on a Caicedo replacement. They had already added Milner for experience.  Not sure why they are in sudden need for replacements. 

They will always have a need for players, from other clubs, over time, over the seasons, as they don't have an Academy like we do or a feeder club or loaneees all over the place and our scouting system all over the world.  They will always be selling their TOP players to bigger clubs and buying dross like Milner.

For example, They loaned Colwill from us.  We are not loaning players from them.

They NEED good quality players. Younger players, etc. We have them in abundance.

Example: Who do they have lined up as a Caicedo replacement?  Rennes midfielder Lesley Ugochukwu. Who now owns Lesley Ugochukwu? We now own him.

9 minutes ago, TheCeleryKing said:

They will always have a need for players, from other clubs, over time, over the seasons, as they don't have an Academy like we do or a feeder club or loaneees all over the place and our scouting system all over the world.  They will always be selling their TOP players to bigger clubs and buying dross like Milner.

For example, They loaned Colwill from us.  We are not loaning players from them.

They NEED good quality players. Younger players, etc. We have them in abundance.

Example: Who do they have lined up as a Caicedo replacement?  Rennes midfielder Lesley Ugochukwu. Who now owns Lesley Ugochukwu? We now own him.

They actually do, and were one of the pioneers. They own Union Saint-Gilloise and loan some of their young players there (Undav the latest).

I don’t think they are that desperate to sell Caicedo, they fall in that category of clubs that only need to make one big sale every season because they pay relatively low wages. They have spent about £74m in this window, spread over 5yrs that is about £17m on the books. They have sold MacAllister for £43m so still in the green. Their wage bill is also about £58m annually.  They could easily pick up £20m from selling Robert Sanchez, and guess who needs a goalie

46 minutes ago, ducavis said:

They actually do, and were one of the pioneers. They own Union Saint-Gilloise and loan some of their young players there (Undav the latest).

I don’t think they are that desperate to sell Caicedo, they fall in that category of clubs that only need to make one big sale every season because they pay relatively low wages. They have spent about £74m in this window, spread over 5yrs that is about £17m on the books. They have sold MacAllister for £43m so still in the green. Their wage bill is also about £58m annually.  They could easily pick up £20m from selling Robert Sanchez, and guess who needs a goalie

I agree. Brighton are not in a position where they have to sell Caicedo at any price, so they are holding out for a massive fee. The only risk on their side is that they may end up with a disgruntled player this season if he stays with them.

1 hour ago, TheCeleryKing said:

They will always have a need for players, from other clubs, over time, over the seasons, as they don't have an Academy like we do or a feeder club or loaneees all over the place and our scouting system all over the world.  They will always be selling their TOP players to bigger clubs and buying dross like Milner.

For example, They loaned Colwill from us.  We are not loaning players from them.

They NEED good quality players. Younger players, etc. We have them in abundance.

Example: Who do they have lined up as a Caicedo replacement?  Rennes midfielder Lesley Ugochukwu. Who now owns Lesley Ugochukwu? We now own him.

You know about Brighton's academy or lack of it, do you? Brighton have had a quality academy set up for a number of years if my memory serves me. They always looked very good when I have been there.

I doubt that Brighton would have paid £23m for a player that has only played 40 odd games. I think they paid 4m for Caicedo.

4 minutes ago, WhiteWall said:

I doubt that Brighton would have paid £23m for a player that has only played 40 odd games. I think they paid 4m for Caicedo.

They were/are prepared to break their transfer record for someone who's played 54.

2 minutes ago, Argo said:

They were/are prepared to break their transfer record for someone who's played 54.

Of course they are probably able to alter their strategy slightly as we've been bankrolling them the last couple of years. 

3 minutes ago, WhiteWall said:

Of course they are probably able to alter their strategy slightly as we've been bankrolling them the last couple of years. 

Whatever the reasoning it's a clear show of intent they're prepared to splash out if they believe in the player.

Just now, Argo said:

Whatever the reasoning it's a clear show of intent they're prepared to splash out if they believe in the player.

I still don't think that they are moving away from their model.

Clearly they are evolving and now have European football, and a top class coach that will require a grown up commitment from the board as well.

So players like Milner fall outside of the model but are still economical ways to handle the increased schedule. They are still sourcing emerging talent at a fraction of the cost that the likes of us are paying.

I expect their model to started going somewhat off track as the back room recruiters and analysts get picked off. I also think our youngsters look great at the moment.  Only time will tell if our strategy pays off. It is certainly better than our recent previous approach.

I can't help raising an eyebrow when we pay £23m for a lad that's only ever played about a third of a season and the Scouse picked up a PL proven world cup winner for £35m

1 hour ago, WhiteWall said:

You know about Brighton's academy or lack of it, do you? Brighton have had a quality academy set up for a number of years if my memory serves me. They always looked very good when I have been there.

I doubt that Brighton would have paid £23m for a player that has only played 40 odd games. I think they paid 4m for Caicedo.

I am sure they have an Academy.  But they have still taken 3 Academy players from us recently - Gilmour and Lamptey and Colwill on loan.  So that is the way the traffic is flowing. We have not taken any of their Academy players.

We are the BIG fish and they are the little fish.

Whatever their 'model' is - unlike yourself i am no expert on their 'model' - but like all models it will change over time. It will have to.

is it 48 hours yet?

59 minutes ago, WhiteWall said:

I still don't think that they are moving away from their model.

Within the next 5 years Brighton probably won't even be in the Premiership. Quite likely sooner.

There is this idea that Brighton are running rings around us, etc.  We shall see. Over time I fancy that we might prevail.  The BIG fish eat the little fish in case you were wondering.