1 hour ago, forbzy said:

Brighton are not in a position where they have to sell Caicedo at any price, so they are holding out for a massive fee. The only risk on their side is that they may end up with a disgruntled player this season if he stays with them.

Which is a HUGE bloody risk for them.  And one that no club would ever want.

2 hours ago, ducavis said:

i don’t think they are that desperate to sell Caicedo,

But Caicedo wants to leave. Caicedo wants to join Chelsea FC.

There are not many examples of players being forced to stay at a club where it has worked out well for that club.

Anyone have a good example of this successful 'Modern Slavery'?

When Real Madrid first came for Cristiano Ronaldo in the summer of 2008, then-Fifa president Sepp Blatter famously said it was “modern slavery” for Manchester United to hold onto him. Ronaldo even said that summer that he agreed with Blatter (aka Tim Roth).  Ronaldo did play one more season for United before moving on.

1 hour ago, WhiteWall said:

I can't help raising an eyebrow when we pay £23m for a lad that's only ever played about a third of a season and the Scouse picked up a PL proven world cup winner for £35m

You can make any club look bad and good with these type of comparisons.

For example, we signed a proven big game player for around the same price Liverpool will likely sign a player Man.City deemed surplus who got comfortably relegated in his only season of men's football so far.

29 minutes ago, TheCeleryKing said:

But Caicedo wants to leave. Caicedo wants to join Chelsea FC.

There are not many examples of players being forced to stay at a club where it has worked out well for that club.

Anyone have a good example of this successful 'Modern Slavery'?

When Real Madrid first came for Cristiano Ronaldo in the summer of 2008, then-Fifa president Sepp Blatter famously said it was “modern slavery” for Manchester United to hold onto him. Ronaldo even said that summer that he agreed with Blatter (aka Tim Roth).  Ronaldo did play one more season for United before moving on.

I would say the opposite. Most players just get on with it and understand that they are contracted to the club. If they don't move on that season, then they move on the next season. Mahrez was like this with Leicester, he wanted to leave, they kept him because they needed him, then they sold him the season after.

What if every player wanted to leave a club, would you be saying sell them all in that one window? The simple fact is that if clubs want to remain competitive, they can't sell all of their best players. If Brighton sell Caicedo, they have destroyed their midfield that got them into the position they are in today. 

I also think the modern slavery comments are beyond stupid. Playing Premier League football is one of the most priviledged positions to be in.

Edited July 29, 20232 yr by Scott Harris

11 minutes ago, Scott Harris said:

I would say the opposite. Most players just get on with it and understand that they are contracted to the club. If they don't move on that season, then they move on the next season. Mahrez was like this with Leicester, he wanted to leave, they kept him because they needed him, then they sold him the season after.

Good example Riyad Mahrez, Leicester City, 2016 – Mahrez was the player of the Year.   After their unrepeatable title triumph in 2016, Leicester City were subject to the vultures coming in to sign their best players. N’Golo Kante went to Chelsea and Riyah Mahrez wanted to follow him out of the door of Leicester to a top club. Leicester kept him for another year and a half.  He was never quite as good for them ever again and Leicester finally sold him for much less in Jan 2018.

13 minutes ago, Scott Harris said:

I also think the modern slavery comments are beyond stupid. Playing Premier League football is one of the most privileged positions to be in.

Indeed. Players and Entertainers have rights though.  I can see 'symbol' formerly known as Moises Caicedo write slave on his cheek just like Prince did when he was in dispute with his record company.

I think whether Caicedo worth 100m or not comes down how you rate him. It is that simple. 

Like any footballer it comes down what your bring in tem off skill-set. 

53 minutes ago, Scott Harris said:

I would say the opposite. Most players just get on with it and understand that they are contracted to the club. If they don't move on that season, then they move on the next season. Mahrez was like this with Leicester, he wanted to leave, they kept him because they needed him, then they sold him the season after.

What if every player wanted to leave a club, would you be saying sell them all in that one window? The simple fact is that if clubs want to remain competitive, they can't sell all of their best players. If Brighton sell Caicedo, they have destroyed their midfield that got them into the position they are in today. 

I also think the modern slavery comments are beyond stupid. Playing Premier League football is one of the most priviledged positions to be in.

It was a comment made by Sepp Blatter to be fair.

I am not sure if it was before or after his comment that women's football would be better if the women wore tighter shorts because they're pretty.

44 minutes ago, TheCeleryKing said:

Good example Riyad Mahrez, Leicester City, 2016 – Mahrez was the player of the Year.   After their unrepeatable title triumph in 2016, Leicester City were subject to the vultures coming in to sign their best players. N’Golo Kante went to Chelsea and Riyah Mahrez wanted to follow him out of the door of Leicester to a top club. Leicester kept him for another year and a half.  He was never quite as good for them ever again and Leicester finally sold him for much less in Jan 2018.

Didn’t Edson Alvarez refuse to turn up to training when the rumours were doing the rounds that we wanted to sign him in January

42 minutes ago, TheCeleryKing said:

Indeed. Players and Entertainers have rights though.  I can see 'symbol' formerly known as Moises Caicedo write slave on his cheek just like Prince did when he was in dispute with his record company.

Everybody has rights. Players, entertainers and employers as well. Thankfully these rights are all enshrined in the law of contract. Sulking when the law of contract prevents you from breaching your commitment is nota right, implied or otherwise.

8 hours ago, WhiteWall said:

Everybody has rights. Players, entertainers and employers as well. Thankfully these rights are all enshrined in the law of contract. Sulking when the law of contract prevents you from breaching your commitment is nota right, implied or otherwise.

Well, that is great if you have that kind of faith in the LAW.  I don’t share your enthusiasm for the law and it’s not because I consider lawyers to be nothing more than professional liars, creating a totally corrupt and evil system, its more that I just consider lawyers to be outright sociopaths. Essentially the law is about outcomes and has nothing whatsoever to do with ethics or morality.  . . .

Hang on. Sorry. Football forum, sorry. Yeah, Caicedo should be allowed to join Chelsea because that is what he wants to do.

 

 

15 minutes ago, TheCeleryKing said:

Well, that is great if you have that kind of faith in the LAW.  I don’t share your enthusiasm for the law and it’s not because I consider lawyers to be nothing more than professional liars, creating a totally corrupt and evil system, its more that I just consider lawyers to be outright sociopaths. Essentially the law is about outcomes and has nothing whatsoever to do with ethics or morality.  . . .

Hang on. Sorry. Football forum, sorry. Yeah, Caicedo should be allowed to join Chelsea because that is what he wants to do.

 

 

What’s your profession Celery that makes you so down on lawyers? A daughter of mine  is at partner level leading firm   wand also  raising 3 young children. Whitewall and I may disagree on football matters  but his comments on contract law are well made. We are lucky to live icountries  where the rule of law is respected. 
 

brighton’s wages in total are about 1/4 of Chelsea’s  but if Caicedo signs for brighton then he can’t change his mind six months later just because we offer more money  he and his agent should think about it first  it was a dumb signing and you might ask if brighton coerced him but he did sign  

 

Edited July 30, 20232 yr by ozboy

19 hours ago, TheCeleryKing said:

Then it is good that you are not leading our negotiations.  You cannot enter into any negotiation ever on such a weak premise. 

For instance, one option, is that we have players and they need players. They really NEED players.  We have an Academy full of talent and riches and that is an ongoing scenario.  They have taken players from us in the past, Lamptey, Gilmour and Levi on loan.  We can start there.

But no, I am not giving you a blow-by-blow account on how these fantasy negotiations transpire.

 

If the suggestion is that we might add players to our reported, and presumably cash only, £80m offer then that is making a higher offer, not persuading Brighton to accept the existing one. I assume therefore that this is not your meaning. If the idea is that we might promise preferential purchase/loan access to future prospects then I guarantee you that a) such an offer is already on the table, and b) it's value to Brighton can't be high.

Ancillaries are on the table because when club officials negotiate the conversation isn't limited to; "£1m.", "No", "£2m.", "No.", "Alright then £3m.", "Still no.", and so on. Sweeteners get requested and offered. Their value is limited anyway because:

• Other clubs, including possibly Brighton, will already hold such agreements as a result of earlier negotiations. This dilutes the talent pool Brighton might expect first option on.
• Our very best youngsters are not going to be available anyway. Tariq, for example, left because Reece was a road block ahead of him. He has not been able to establish himself as Brighton's first choice, whereas Reece would have done.
• Most of the time the level of player available, and position he plays, won't match with Brighton's then current squad requirements.
• There is Strasbourg now.

 

Edited July 30, 20232 yr by OhForAGreavsie

4 hours ago, TheCeleryKing said:

Well, that is great if you have that kind of faith in the LAW.  I don’t share your enthusiasm for the law and it’s not because I consider lawyers to be nothing more than professional liars, creating a totally corrupt and evil system, its more that I just consider lawyers to be outright sociopaths. Essentially the law is about outcomes and has nothing whatsoever to do with ethics or morality.  . . .

Hang on. Sorry. Football forum, sorry. Yeah, Caicedo should be allowed to join Chelsea because that is what he wants to do.

 

 

Ignoring your ramblings of the first paragraph and focusing on your second, by this rationale are you saying that Chelsea should have accepted Inters offer of a bag of Monster Munch and a Curly Wurly for Lukaku because he really wanted to go there.

Brighton have no objection to commuting Caicedo's contract and selling him to Chelsea, but they have the right to charge what they feel fair. The fact that all of us, the Chelsea board, Caicedo and his representatives all think the price is a bloody rip off is neither here nor there to Tony Bloom.

4 hours ago, OhForAGreavsie said:

If the suggestion is that we might add players to our reported

 

No, that is not my suggestion

3 hours ago, WhiteWall said:

are you saying that Chelsea should have accepted Inters offer of a bag of Monster Munch and a Curly Wurly for Lukaku because he really wanted to go there.

No, i am not saying that

19 hours ago, WhiteWall said:

You know about Brighton's academy or lack of it, do you? Brighton have had a quality academy set up for a number of years if my memory serves me. They always looked very good when I have been there.

I doubt that Brighton would have paid £23m for a player that has only played 40 odd games. I think they paid 4m for Caicedo.

I think what he is referring to is that, unlike us, Brighton don't generate money from their academy players. They don't actually have a track record of players integrating from their academy into the first team. They mainly source young players across Europe and South America. I can't think of how many players have come through the Brighton academy and settled in their team apart from Dunk which was years ago. Despite them not spending loads on players and them having a quality academy, we have a better record of bringing players from the academy into our team than they do.

18 minutes ago, TheCeleryKing said:

No, that is not my suggestion

It's beginning to feel difficult to exchange ideas with you. I'll assume that you read the sentence following the one which contains the phrase you have quoted. If so, the post I am responding to here is a waste of photons. If you did not read that next sentence, then it's going to be beyond difficult for us to exchange ideas.

Edited July 30, 20232 yr by OhForAGreavsie

4 hours ago, OhForAGreavsie said:

 If the idea is that we might promise preferential purchase/loan access to future prospects then I guarantee you that a) such an offer is already on the table, and b) it's value to Brighton can't be high.

If you say so. You must be correct. Thank you for exchanging ideas.

 

18 hours ago, TheCeleryKing said:

But Caicedo wants to leave. Caicedo wants to join Chelsea FC.

There are not many examples of players being forced to stay at a club where it has worked out well for that club.

January 2017, Diego Costa --- Tianjin Quanjian stormed in with an offer for Costa and costa wanted to go, argued with Antonio Conte and was dropped for a league game at Leicester City. Chelsea could have received a fee of €90m for Costa. Chelsea said no. What was the fee we got for him in the end?

I still really want Caicedo, I think he's a top player and will help and free up Enzo too.

Although saying that I actually have more respect for players who knuckle down and get on with it if they don't get their move rather than players threatening to go on strike etc...

It might seem ok when they do it to join your club but they may also do it again to leave your club in the future.

I just hope we can sort out a deal in the next few days ideally, maybe £90m + £10m in add-ons attached to success.

If we was to win the EPL or Champions League with him in our team then that £10m in add-ons will be totally worth it.

Time to get this deal done and get a team ready to compete with Liverpool in 2 weeks time.

5 hours ago, WhiteWall said:

Ignoring your ramblings of the first paragraph and focusing on your second, by this rationale are you saying that Chelsea should have accepted Inters offer of a bag of Monster Munch and a Curly Wurly for Lukaku because he really wanted to go there.

Brighton have no objection to commuting Caicedo's contract and selling him to Chelsea, but they have the right to charge what they feel fair. The fact that all of us, the Chelsea board, Caicedo and his representatives all think the price is a bloody rip off is neither here nor there to Tony Bloom.

West Ham had a price for Rice which was over £100m and Arsenal paid up. Whats so hard to understand about about this? Brighton have their price, and if we cant pay, they dont have to sell him to us. 

27 minutes ago, Edjmendy said:

West Ham had a price for Rice which was over £100m and Arsenal paid up. Whats so hard to understand about about this? Brighton have their price, and if we cant pay, they dont have to sell him to us. 

Thank you

54 minutes ago, Edjmendy said:

West Ham had a price for Rice which was over £100m and Arsenal paid up. Whats so hard to understand about about this? Brighton have their price, and if we cant pay, they dont have to sell him to us. 

Bloom and Brighton can demand £100m or £150m or £200m. Should we just pay what they are asking?

 

Moises Caicedo can choose to move to another football club. Brighton can choose to keep him against his will. When a club chooses to keep a player against his will it has historically never ended well for that club. The club may have the legal agreement, but they do not have the player. Whats so hard to understand about this?

 

The clubs – Chelsea and Brighton – are ‘negotiating’ and Chelsea have put in a very substantial and reasonable offer for Moises Caicedo.  It is ‘ongoing’ and Chelsea may at the end of the day just walk away. 

Still no transfer request, still no move on Caicedos part to make this happen.