3 minutes ago, Sconnie Blue said:

Now you are just being pedantic. I don't rate Kovacic as a passer. If you've watched Kovacic play regularly and come to the conclusion he's a good passer on the ball, that's a you problem.  You are banging about pass accuracy and completion yet I've shown you the statistics of how limited his progressive passing game is on a whole. Enzo has a far superior expansive passing game than both Kovacic and Jorginho combined so the notion we are no better than with Jorginho is just simply false and hence why you are being attacked in this thread. 

I like utilizing a similar sample size when I do a comparison (hence using his Benfica matches) and even with Enzo's limited time in the Premier League he dwarfs Kovacic. 

Kovacic also doesn't even rank in the Top 10 for Chelsea in shots, key passes, dribbles and pass success rate so it is no surprise that he is rated so poorly by WhoScored.

https://www.footballfancast.com/chelsea-graham-potter-mateo-kovacic-stamford-bridge-blues/

 

You're evading my question. Statistically Kova had a decent game yesterday (for a 0:2 loss that is), yet if I check the matchday thread would I find posts from you sh*tting on him or not? Because if I would it makes any fancy stat you post kind of hypocritical.
Also, just to reiterate, yet again; I wasn't comparing Kova to Enzo. I was telling you to sod off since you have more important work to do as in say stupid sh*te about Kova and claim people are being pedantic when they call you out on it. You still didn't get that apparently.

Since I fear it still went over your head, let me say it again. Fernandez is a fine footballer and better than Kovacic, but he isn't worth 120million. No way.

@Upb78 No, you. 😂 Oh my...

5 hours ago, Vagabond said:

How are we lucky? We paid an absurd fee and our results didn't improve in the slightest. We could've just as well stuck with Jorgi (since our bad season was very obviously not down to him) and looked for another player that fits our profile in summer instead of overpaying for a Argentinian directly after winning the WC. I assume Boehly in his arrogance wanted to send a message though and that's why were so "lucky".

And any club that would've paid 120M for him would have been stupid just like we are now and just like we were when competing with Arse over Mudryk.

Dangerous place to come on the shed end forum and make these opinions 😉

CFC daily have reported the owners are informing the clauses in contracts signed by players in the January window, and those who have agreed new contracts since, which brings in 30%-50% wage decreases for failing to qualify for the CL.

This has left some of these players questioning their futures at the club, which would include Enzo.

 

 

I mean they knew what they were getting into? 

1 hour ago, Sconnie Blue said:

I mean they knew what they were getting into? 

Different matter when it becomes a reality perhaps?

7 minutes ago, axman2526 said:

Different matter when it becomes a reality perhaps?

Still, this might be one of the few good things the new ownership has done. 

2 hours ago, Ernie_blue said:

Dangerous place to come on the shed end forum and make these opinions 😉

Ive noticed, heh. I'll admit being called an Arsenal fan by a guy thats here for barely a year did annoy me a bit though. Completely uncalled for.

Edited April 19, 20233 yr by Vagabond

4 hours ago, Vagabond said:

 Fernandez is a fine footballer and better than Kovacic, but he isn't worth 120million. No way.

@Upb78 No, you. 😂 Oh my...

I take your point here Vagabond and agree with the sentiment. What football player is worth £120 million? Maybe Halaand and Mbappe? 

But similar to house prices, it's market forces at work. Any player is only worth what someone is prepared to pay. I agree with @Argo and the point he makes about the competition we would have probably faced in the summer to sign Enzo. Remember he was a major player at Benfica, and a major loss when he left. If he had stayed and continued on his upward trajectory maybe Benfica would have turned over Inter Milan and made the CL semis. Hypothetical I know, but what would his value have been then? And, would he even have considered us?

Also it's not like us over paying to sign a "reputation" player is a new thing. £51 million for Torres and an incredible £97.5 million for Lukaku. Both were subsequently proven to be utter madness.  Based on what I have seen so far I'm pretty confident Enzo is gonna prove to be a much, much better signing than those two put together.

 

 

17 minutes ago, just said:

I take your point here Vagabond and agree with the sentiment. What football player is worth £120 million? Maybe Halaand and Mbappe? 

But similar to house prices, it's market forces at work. Any player is only worth what someone is prepared to pay. I agree with @Argo and the point he makes about the competition we would have probably faced in the summer to sign Enzo. Remember he was a major player at Benfica, and a major loss when he left. If he had stayed and continued on his upward trajectory maybe Benfica would have turned over Inter Milan and made the CL semis. Hypothetical I know, but what would his value have been then? And, would he even have considered us?

Also it's not like us over paying to sign a "reputation" player is a new thing. £51 million for Torres and an incredible £97.5 million for Lukaku. Both were subsequently proven to be utter madness.  Based on what I have seen so far I'm pretty confident Enzo is gonna prove to be a much, much better signing than those two put together.

 

 

And there was me thinking you'd just say 'I'd have paid £200m to replace Jorginho'

@just Honestly? I think other clubs realized that Boehly is an newcomer and doesn't understand football as much as he thinks he does and is arrogant at the same time. So they're taking advantage. Benfica, Shakthar, Brighton...  you may say it's market forces but I honestly believe we're the only club that would've paid that much for Enzo, Mudryk and Cucurella (or Graham Potter for that matter). With Enzo, for me it's the timing... who buys a world cup winner mid season from another CL club directly after the world cup when his price will be extremely inflated? In my mind the only reason one could justify it is that we're so bad we will lose attractiveness for other new players since were nowhere near Europe next season, but even that's nonsense since we didn't buy him with fighting off relegation in mind. We still wanted to get into top 4 back then (absurd, I know).
I know you and many people here disliked Jorgi and are glad he's gone. I wasn't his biggest fan either. In hindsight we should've kept him and sold Kova or Kante for Enzo and kept Jorgi as DM. Or better yet not bought Enzo and used the rest of the season to scout for targets that will fix the glaring issues we have instead of appeasing our twitter and FIFA fanboys with a shiny new toy they can hype while were getting dominated by the likes of Brighton and Wolves.

With their wages set to be slashed and no CL next season I wonder how this will affect the mindset of our January buys?

Santos and Solnina probably not, Badiashile perhaps if he is looking at remaining on the bench.

But Mudryk and Enzo I really do wonder as CL clubs would want them.

25 minutes ago, just said:

I take your point here Vagabond and agree with the sentiment. What football player is worth £120 million? Maybe Halaand and Mbappe? 

But similar to house prices, it's market forces at work. Any player is only worth what someone is prepared to pay. I agree with @Argo and the point he makes about the competition we would have probably faced in the summer to sign Enzo. Remember he was a major player at Benfica, and a major loss when he left. If he had stayed and continued on his upward trajectory maybe Benfica would have turned over Inter Milan and made the CL semis. Hypothetical I know, but what would his value have been then? And, would he even have considered us?

Also it's not like us over paying to sign a "reputation" player is a new thing. £51 million for Torres and an incredible £97.5 million for Lukaku. Both were subsequently proven to be utter madness.  Based on what I have seen so far I'm pretty confident Enzo is gonna prove to be a much, much better signing than those two put together.

 

 

People may say I'm biased as I was practically campaigning for his signing even when I felt it wasn't hugely realistic (I'm still amazed we managed to convince him in the period we're currently in, Crespo must have given him an obscenely good sales pitch) but the fact he's still been largely performing well despite everything going on has made me even more convinced and I was already 99.9% sure about him as it was.

We've hit the jackpot with him the same way we did Kante and Hazard in my opinion and I'm happy for this to be revisited in 10 years time.

2 minutes ago, axman2526 said:

With their wages set to be slashed and no CL next season I wonder how this will affect the mindset of our January buys?

They would have signed knowing the "slash" was highly likely.

If the 30% pay cut clause was in their contract, they only got their agents and lawyers to blame. This could also explains why players tried and worked harder in the CL games. Sonner or later a big club will bid for Enzo, if we are still out of the CL by then, whether he has a 5 or 6 years left on his contract wont stop him from leaving.

8 minutes ago, Argo said:

They would have signed knowing the "slash" was highly likely.

True mate. Do you think he realized how big a mess the club is though?

6 minutes ago, axman2526 said:

True mate. Do you think he realized how big a mess the club is though?

I imagine they (or their agent) did their research. In Enzo case maybe he thought he could make a Casemiro esque impact but either way he'd have known what he was walking into.

7 minutes ago, Argo said:

I imagine they (or their agent) did their research. In Enzo case maybe he thought he could make a Casemiro esque impact but either way he'd have known what he was walking into.

He is having a Casemiroesque effect on the CFC... which would be a fraction infinitesimally close to zero. 🤫

16 minutes ago, Argo said:

I imagine they (or their agent) did their research. In Enzo case maybe he thought he could make a Casemiro esque impact but either way he'd have known what he was walking into.

Fair enough. I don't think he did personally, I don't believe he would have signed if he knew how bad our owners really are, especially as the world was his oyster and he could have stayed at Benfica, furthered his reputation, and signed for a City or Real in 18 months or so.

I believe Mendes and the Eggman sold him on this project which is just fantasy. 

He has ever been a professional and will continue to be so, but I believe there is a good chance he regrets coming here.

He only signed 3 months ago. I'm sure the vision he was sold was over a longer period than that! We'll be a better team next season with a better manager & all will be forgotten 😋

14 hours ago, Vagabond said:

Considering the results didn't change since he came here we shouldve kept Jorgi and waited until summer to do some more serious scouting that involves the coaching staff instead of Boehly just picking random expensive targets, cause expensive has to mean good.

Also that way our fanbase wouldnt be scrambling in search of a new scapegoat either, so there's an additional plus for you.

About the name of a similar player: I'd rather give you an alternative for a position on the pitch. Come to think of it, what exactly is his position in your opinion?

An elite passer in midfield. 

3 hours ago, axman2526 said:

With their wages set to be slashed and no CL next season I wonder how this will affect the mindset of our January buys?

Santos and Solnina probably not, Badiashile perhaps if he is looking at remaining on the bench.

But Mudryk and Enzo I really do wonder as CL clubs would want them.

We'll be fine if we get top 4 next year, but if we miss out 2 years in a row then we'll be in trouble.

 

Though I'm worried top 4 will be harder to break into from now on with Newcastle splashing the cash, and Arsenal becoming a top side again. We'd have to finish higher than one of City, United, Arsenal or Newcastle to do it most likely. 

38 minutes ago, Drogba1 said:

We'll be fine if we get top 4 next year, but if we miss out 2 years in a row then we'll be in trouble.

 

Though I'm worried top 4 will be harder to break into from now on with Newcastle splashing the cash, and Arsenal becoming a top side again. We'd have to finish higher than one of City, United, Arsenal or Newcastle to do it most likely. 

And Liverpool.

4 hours ago, just said:

I take your point here Vagabond and agree with the sentiment. What football player is worth £120 million? Maybe Halaand and Mbappe? 

But similar to house prices, it's market forces at work. Any player is only worth what someone is prepared to pay. I agree with @Argo and the point he makes about the competition we would have probably faced in the summer to sign Enzo. Remember he was a major player at Benfica, and a major loss when he left. If he had stayed and continued on his upward trajectory maybe Benfica would have turned over Inter Milan and made the CL semis. Hypothetical I know, but what would his value have been then? And, would he even have considered us?

Also it's not like us over paying to sign a "reputation" player is a new thing. £51 million for Torres and an incredible £97.5 million for Lukaku. Both were subsequently proven to be utter madness.  Based on what I have seen so far I'm pretty confident Enzo is gonna prove to be a much, much better signing than those two put together.

 

 

Paying 50m for torres or 90m for Lukaku is not madness though. 

The one that is madness is paying 60m for Cucu or 70 m for Kepa. 

Did we overpay for Enzo? Yes. 

Is Enzo wc? No. 

Does Enzo has elite difficult to teach skill-set? Yes

Does Enzo have tons room to grow? Yes. 

Can he become wc? Yes (hopefully). 

Next. 

 

Edited April 20, 20233 yr by Bob stark