17 minutes ago, g3.7 said:

No, they are French. That's sort of the point. 

Of course they are french, but they are also african because of their roots. The same thing applies for players like Garnacho or NIcolas Paz, which are spanish born players but have argentinian roots, if there were such a big amount of spanish born players playing for Argentina squad i have no doubt that it would cause a huge international turmoil. That's why i consider this is to be a matter of nationality, not race or skin color, i think that the song is and should be considered offensive and ignorant, but not racist.

 

Edited July 18, 20242 yr by Upb78

5 minutes ago, Upb78 said:

think that the song is and should be considered offensive and ignorant, but not racist.

Why is it offensive and ignorant? 

12 minutes ago, g3.7 said:

None of those specific situations apply here. Which should be obvious. Just a normal group of people, the only identifier they have in common is skin colour. 

There are too many unknowns to draw a definitive conclusion.

It would be stupid to say it, knowing that the majority of people are quick to jump to conclusions- but the fact that they are black, doesn't automatically make it racist. 
 

I hate that gang

I hate those bullies

I hate those drug dealers

I hate those thieves

I hate those lads who threaten me.

 

It's instructive that your instinct is to invent odd caveats to avoid describing something obviously racist as racist. 

19 minutes ago, g3.7 said:

Why is it offensive and ignorant? 

It's offensive because it talks about their sexual preferences (which is typical in many football songs all over the world of course), and it's offensive because the song itself is made with the intent to provoke and antagonize the french, and this is only because of Mbappe said about southamerican football before the WC. They couldn't care less about their race or color.

It's ignorant because it states that they should only play with the country of their roots, regardless of what country they were born.

Edited July 18, 20242 yr by Upb78

4 minutes ago, Upb78 said:

It's ignorant because it states that they should only play with the country of their roots, regardless of what country they were born.

Nearly there now - who specifically is the "they", and what do they have in common? 

Edit - and not to go off topic, but why is talking about sexual preference /orientation offensive? 

Edited July 18, 20242 yr by g3.7

19 minutes ago, g3.7 said:

It's instructive that your instinct is to invent odd caveats to avoid describing something obviously racist as racist. 

No - my instinct is not to jump to conclusions.

In your made up scenario, in which you have provided little context, it is more than likely racist....but i don't know, hence my reluctance to jump to conclusions. 

In this song scenario, in the absence of any mention of race, ethnicity or skin colour - it is more likely that it is not racist...hence my reluctance to jump to conclusions. 

And the argument that "it is about africans who are black" is also a red herring. There are white people in africa you know. Including in Angola - one of the countries mentioned (white angolans are a minority in their country).

My family (wife and kids) have real life experience of racism. Discrimination and being treated differently due to their skin colour. It is abhorrent.

This song however - which doesn't mention anything about race - is not in itself racist. 

Edited July 18, 20242 yr by nonotnowjim

7 minutes ago, Upb78 said:

It's offensive because it talks about their sexual preferences (which is typical in many football songs all over the world of course), and it's offensive because the song itself is made with the intent to provoke and antagonize the french, and this is only because of Mbappe said about southamerican football before the WC. They couldn't care less about their race or color.

It's ignorant because it states that they should only play with the country of their roots, regardless of what country they were born.

spot on .

 

more eloquent than I can put it.

5 minutes ago, g3.7 said:

Nearly there now - who specifically is the "they", and what do they have in common? 

Edit - and not to go off topic, but why is talking about sexual preference /orientation offensive? 

They all have fingernails? They all breathe air? they all evolved? they all have lungs? Is any of these correct....? I can go on for an almost infinite amount. 
 

They are NOT all black though. Google white angolans. 

13 minutes ago, g3.7 said:

It's instructive that your instinct is to invent odd caveats to avoid describing something obviously racist as racist. 

Laughable that you use the word obviously - when there is nothing obvious about it.

16 minutes ago, g3.7 said:

Nearly there now - who specifically is the "they", and what do they have in common? 

Edit - and not to go off topic, but why is talking about sexual preference /orientation offensive? 

What do they have in common? The players are all black and also they are all of african descent, but only one aspect is mentioned in the song. You can infer whatever you want of course but, come on, don't expect the rest to do the same just because you have confirmation bias.

 

Regarding the "Edit" part: it's offensive because it's used with the mere intention to antagonize and cause anger, it's what many football songs use, specially in countries Argentina (like when they sing that someones's mother or sister is a whore, or even sing that that someone is gay). But the truth is, nobody cares who the other person sleeps with.

Edited July 18, 20242 yr by Upb78

Ladies and gentlemen: a collection of racists. 

7 minutes ago, nonotnowjim said:

No - my instinct is not to jump to conclusions.

In your made up scenario, in which you have provided little context, it is more than likely racist....but i don't know, hence my reluctance to jump to conclusions. 

In this song scenario, in the absence of any mention of race, ethnicity or skin colour - it is more likely that it is not racist...hence my reluctance to jump to conclusions. 

And the argument that "it is about africans who are black" is also a red herring. There are white people in africa you know. Including in Angola - one of the countries mentioned (white angolans are a minority in their country).

My family (wife and kids) have real life experience of racism. Discrimination and beating treated differently due to their skin colour. It is abhorrent.

This song however - which doesn't mention anything about race - is not in itself racist. 

If France had a few players that would have Argentinian roots/heritage instead of Cameroon like Mbappe, they would still mock the French team for having those players in order to compete, or in case of a France win they would mock them by saying that they needed Argentinians in order to beat Argentina.

Would that mean that Argentinians are racist against themselves, or does it simply mean that Argentinians are simply looking for ways to mock their rivals in any possible way?

Being offensive doesn't automatically mean that someone is being racist, the song uses a fact (e.g. Mbappe having a parent from Cameroon) to mock the French team, in a way that it doesn't discriminate Mbappe's background at all but that implies that the French team needed something extra for their team to be good.

France only needed to point out the fact that a lot of Argentinian players have a European background and thus make it a debate about nations and why would it even be a relevant argument but they chose to accuse them of racism instead.

Worth remembering what incited the chant. Mbappe said European Football was far superior than South American, to which the Argentines conjured up their own reply by emphasizing you aren't even European. 

Typical Argentine behavior tbh. 

8 minutes ago, g3.7 said:

Ladies and gentlemen: a collection of racists. 

Dick....

Just because people don't agree with you, you call them racist. 

As usual, these issues end up causing arguments and friction amongst the fanbase as well. Maybe we should just shut up about it all and wait and see what happens?

1 hour ago, TheCeleryKing said:

He is the Captain and with that comes a responsibility. I am fairly certain they have sung it on the bus before and he might have been there on those occasions.

I am starting to feel a little sorry for Enzo tbh. He was not the only player singing.  But he does appear to be the scapegoat now. All on his own.

Kind of the furrow I was starting to plough as well. Get the point about the Captain's responsibility but the same could be said of the Manager who would have a bigger responsibility or even a representative of the AFA. 

If something similar had been done by, say, John Stones, I don't think Harry Kane would have been wheeled out. I think Southgate would have been the spokesperson with possibly some input from that Bullingham fella.

2 hours ago, g3.7 said:

Ladies and gentlemen: a collection of racists. 

Ladies and gentlemen: wokeism at its best (or in this case, its worst)

Shall we cue the violins for you mate?

Edited July 18, 20242 yr by Upb78

1 hour ago, Sconnie Blue said:

Worth remembering what incited the chant. Mbappe said European Football was far superior than South American, to which the Argentines conjured up their own reply by emphasizing you aren't even European. 

Typical Argentine behavior tbh. 

As i said before: offensive and ignorant (as many football songs are, because their only intention is to antagonize), but not racist.

Edited July 18, 20242 yr by Upb78

I think this is a Lukaku moment and he either goes on loan or we sell.

We have 6 players of French background and all who have foreign rather than ancestral French heritage, also other premier league players might take a swipe at him like happened to JT that time against City over the Wayne Bridge girlfriend issue. Even though they had already split up they as a team decided to target Terry. 

6 minutes ago, strider6004 said:

I think this is a Lukaku moment and he either goes on loan or we sell.

We have 6 players of French background and all who have foreign rather than ancestral French heritage, also other premier league players might take a swipe at him like happened to JT that time against City over the Wayne Bridge girlfriend issue. Even though they had already split up they as a team decided to target Terry. 

Other clubs may well do so, and if that whats happens due to him sharing the video then is what it is. A consequence of his action. 

Though what about the other PL Argies? Are they not also at risk? Why is Enzo the only one the media are targeting? Cause he filmed it? If he had not, nobody would have known nor been able to address it.

Also should our 6 French players decide to seek revenge for this and target Enzo as well, Then they would be no better than him and, in fact, would be bullies.

Hate it this is a CFC problem now. Of course club has to deal some of the fall outs, like dressing room disharmony etc. But this occurred outside CFC's control, he was representing his national team at the time. If any fines or suspensions ( it's possible if FIFA wants to make an example of it), it should be against Enzo the Argentinian player and the national team. Ban him for the next 5 International games, and a hefty fine to the Argentinian FA. The club should take legal actions if he's banned from Chelsea games, it's not the club's faults what so ever on this one.

Now MacAllister has just put his foot in it.

Be interesting to see how Konate reacts to his statement.

14 minutes ago, Argo said:

Now MacAllister has just put his foot in it.

Be interesting to see how Konate reacts to his statement.

What did he say?

I am seeing a lot of Enzo teammates essentially saying it’s the French players fault they got offended 🤦🏾‍♂️🤦🏾‍♂️

Now I can see why they sang that song so openly.

🗣️🇦🇷 Rodrigo De Paul:

“I understand that people who have suffered from racism might not like it. But I think if any of Enzo’s teammates feel offended, the way is to call him, not post it on social media.

“I think there’s malice in this; they’re trying to make it something it’s not. It’s very strange, like kicking someone when they’re down.

“Unfollowing him seems pointless to me. You can call him and say ‘this isn’t okay, why don’t you post a message apologising?’, and the issue ends there.”

 

🤦🏾‍♂️🤦🏾‍♂️ Completely tone deaf!!