33 minutes ago, axman2526 said:

Are you making sure to use high quality eggs? 

ah Jose mk 1....how I miss you.

1 hour ago, nonotnowjim said:

Time will tell. Personally it “feels” different to me, and it seems from my perspective that Clearlake want stability - and will not simply pull the trigger on a manager if they don’t deliver immediate success.
 

Roman sacked managers for being 2nd. Clearlake sacked Potter after the fans turned toxic. I hope that doesn’t happen again, and we see through the “process” (or the rebuild, project, reset or whatever else we want to call it)

And yes - that includes sticking with it, even if results get ugly, assuming that there are glimmers of progress elsewhere. 
 

What I demand to see from Poch:

1) More progressive football than we have consistently seen for the past x number of years.

2) Players playing in their actual position -  no more square pegs in round roles.

3) a growing understanding of the tactical gameplan, with tangible progress/comfort in the system 

4) cutting out the defensive lapses

5) young players getting experience and growth in the team.

If 1-5 also comes with positive results, then that is fantastic. But I can take a short term blip in results (and by short term I mean years rather than weeks) if it means that long term (5-10 years) prospects looks good.

1) More progressive football than we have consistently seen for the past x number of years.

I think that, despite the results, we are playing better and more progressive overall. We’ve seen phases of the games where we’ve played fast forward football. It is hard to play that way when teams park the bus, but against Luton and Liverpool, and dare I say that even at moments against West Ham (especially in the first half), we played well.

2) Players playing in their actual position -  no more square pegs in round roles.

This is still ongoing. Not sure why, but playing Chilwell as a left winger does not sit well with me. So let’s say that we are not there yet, but getting close.

3) a growing understanding of the tactical gameplan, with tangible progress/comfort in the system 

This will come, I expect, as players play more games together. We need to take into account that more than half the starting 11 have never played together or under Pochettino.

4) cutting out the defensive lapses

Experience for the new defenders will grow this season and, if they have the quality the club thinks they have, the defensive lapses will start disappearing.

5) young players getting experience and growth in the team.

Again, this will come with the more games we play.

What is undeniable is that the team has more fitness than we’ve seen in a couple of seasons at least, and they run and don’t look knackered by the second half. At least so far. The club still needs to work on cutting the injuries, which are still hounding us.

On 02/09/2023 at 16:01, Whats_The_Mata? said:

It's really weird how many people online I see defend the ownership from what I can tell they're either all American or paid Indian tech support because I've never actually met a single person who thinks Boehly and Co aren't the worst football owners in the country and I talk about football with a lot of people all across the country as my work involves a lot of travel.

 

The problem with football club owners is that they are billionaires. The problem with billionaires is that they are ass holes*.

(Roman was an asshole but he had the decency to remain silent and out of the public).

The problem with football club ownership in England is that it is the perfect playground for billionaire assholes from all over the world. All the top clubs in England are owned by Americans or Arab billionaires. It is not the fact that they are 'foreign' that is the problem**.  The problem is the very idea of ownership.  The ownership model of Germany and German Football clubs would be much more to every football fans liking imho. 50+1 rule. Although 50+1 is also not perfect i think we would all feel more aligned to our respective clubs. https://www.lawinsport.com/topics/item/football-club-ownership-in-germany-less-romantic-than-you-might-think

Not going to happen in the UK any time soon though eh. So we are stuck with Todd & co. reinventing the business of Soccer ball.

 

*This is a proven scientific fact

** Vulture capitalism is going to feast on the UK

Edited September 5, 20232 yr by TheCeleryKing
typo

2 hours ago, nonotnowjim said:

My food is not tasty. I will throw away what I am doing and follow another recipe.

It is still not tasty. I will throw that away and follow yet another recipe.

We are 4 games in to the latest recipe - still in the preparation phase in reality. Too soon to say if this latest dish will taste any better.

 

Interesting analogy.

But given our chef has no cooking experience and a very questionable relationship with children who he prefers to spend his time with rather than hiring the experienced professionals that his restaurant needs to run he hasn't exactly earned any long term faith.

3 minutes ago, Whats_The_Mata? said:

Interesting analogy.

But given our chef has no cooking experience and a very questionable relationship with children who he prefers to spend his time with rather than hiring the experienced professionals that his restaurant needs to run he hasn't exactly earned any long term faith.

Poch, Winstanley and Stewart are the chefs. Our chefs have plenty of experience. 

The owners of nandos don't cook the food for us. 

(can we stop using analogies my head hurts now)

Just now, RIP Mourinho said:

Poch, Winstanley and Stewart are the chefs. Our chefs have plenty of experience. 

The owners of nandos don't cook the food for us. 

(can we stop using analogies my head hurts now)

Poch, Winstanley and Stewart aren't involved in our transfer policy.

Poch has no involvement in recruitment and the latter 2 only sign players fitting the parameters of what the owners want.

The policy of only signing 15 year olds and completely neglecting experienced proven quality has come from the top and that's the reason this disaster of a project has no chance of success in the long or short term.

14 minutes ago, Whats_The_Mata? said:

Poch, Winstanley and Stewart aren't involved in our transfer policy.

Poch has no involvement in recruitment and the latter 2 only sign players fitting the parameters of what the owners want.

The policy of only signing 15 year olds and completely neglecting experienced proven quality has come from the top and that's the reason this disaster of a project has no chance of success in the long or short term.

So before we had Winstanley and Stewart and Todd was in charge we signed the following:

Aubameyang (33 years old)

Koulibaly (31 years old)

Cucurella (25 years old)

Sterling (27 years old)

Since Winstanley and Stewart took over we've looked at a more sustainable transfer strategy with younger players, and you think Winstanley and Stewart aren't influencing this? You think Boehly, with absolutely zero footballing background isn't taking advice from the footballing brains he hired? Come on, behave. 

Enzo, Fofana (pre-injury), Caicedo, Lavia, Mudryk, Madueke, Gusto, Badiashile, Jackson, Nkunku, Palmer all look like good or potentially good signings. All the underlying stats from the season point to this project being nothing other than a success. We're dominating teams, creating chances and giving very little chances to oppositions. Individual errors have cost us so far under Poch but if you look at the bigger picture rather than just the league table after 4 games you'll be in a much better mindset.

Stop being so reactionary. 

FYI the experienced proven quality we signed before Todd was also dog sh*t 

16 minutes ago, RIP Mourinho said:

So before we had Winstanley and Stewart and Todd was in charge we signed the following:

Aubameyang (33 years old)

Koulibaly (31 years old)

Cucurella (25 years old)

Sterling (27 years old)

Since Winstanley and Stewart took over we've looked at a more sustainable transfer strategy with younger players, and you think Winstanley and Stewart aren't influencing this? You think Boehly, with absolutely zero footballing background isn't taking advice from the footballing brains he hired? Come on, behave. 

Enzo, Fofana (pre-injury), Caicedo, Lavia, Mudryk, Madueke, Gusto, Badiashile, Jackson, Nkunku, Palmer all look like good or potentially good signings.

If they're good signings then God help us we'll be playing Wimbledon every week if we make a few bad ones.

All but maybe two of those signings were massive overpays most will never be good enough and we have two signings on there that may be in contention for the worst signings the club has ever made.

there's a lot of emperors new clothes syndrome with some of our support who think every young player is a potential superstar but young players are much riskier signings they're not sustainable options and they deteriorate in value quicker than old players because you're overpaying for potential rather than any actual quality and most promising young prospects never develop into top players.

Not sure you can point at good underlying stats when we've had the easiest start to the season in the league and looked toothless against a 10 man West Ham and a Forest team that last won away before half our squad was born.

Edited September 5, 20232 yr by Whats_The_Mata?

17 minutes ago, Whats_The_Mata? said:

If they're good signings then God help us we'll be playing Wimbledon every week if we make a few bad ones.

All but maybe two of those signings weren't massive overpays most will never be good enough and we have two signings on there that may be in contention for the worst signings the club has ever made.

there's a lot of emperors new clothes syndrome with some of our support who think every young player is a potential superstar but young players are much riskier signings they're not sustainable options and they deteriorate in value quicker than old players because you're overpaying for potential rather than any actual quality.

Nail on head.

Look at our very own Callum Hudson Odoi who was touted as the next big thing and we just sold him to Forest for a whopping potential of 5 million. Not saying that everyone will turn out like CHO but we have so many that the risk is far greater and we don't have anyone to turn back on. We also did not pay for Callum but we paid over 100m for Noni and Mudryk.

Remember when everyone on here were saying he was better than Sancho? Well look at Sancho now, there's another one.

I have hope that we have the right man for the job and in 6 months we could be looking at a different team but this project is far riskier than us spending money on proven quality and bringing in players from our academy.

We've also giving these players 6+ year contracts, what does that say for players like Humphreys who want to play for the first team.

As someone who was 7 when Roman bought us, already a Chelsea fan following in my Dads footsteps, I have only really ever known the good times. Whilst we have had off seasons in the past, the sanctions placed on Roman and the club was the first time I have ever faced the prospect of losing the club I love so much. You see it happen to lower league teams and you just don't expect it to happen to a huge club like ours. Whilst there were clearly many suitors, there was a distinct possibility that it could have all caved in or that we could have been sold to some blood sucking leeches who just wanted to run us into the ground. 

You can say what you want about the new owners, that they are playing football manager, that they are clueless and that they have no idea what they are doing. All I really care about is that I truly believe they want us to succeed. Yes, probably because they eventually want to sell for a profit, but they want us to win. Roman was a freak of an owner. The money he put in and what he did for us wasn't going to be replicated, so I will happily back the new owners as long as they continue to act in a way that suggests that they care about the club. 

The project is clearly off to a rough start, but as many have said there were already cracks showing before they came. I definitely agree that the concept of just bulk buying young talent and hoping they will all form a super team in the future is flawed. But we are where we are. We have owners happy to invest and try new things to get us back to the top. Of course, this doesn't entitle them to blind loyalty from the fans, but I find it ridiculously difficult to take too much of an issue when they have invested as aggressively as they have in a project they must believe in. 

 

 

 

1 hour ago, Whats_The_Mata? said:

If they're good signings then God help us we'll be playing Wimbledon every week if we make a few bad ones.

All but maybe two of those signings were massive overpays most will never be good enough and we have two signings on there that may be in contention for the worst signings the club has ever made.

there's a lot of emperors new clothes syndrome with some of our support who think every young player is a potential superstar but young players are much riskier signings they're not sustainable options and they deteriorate in value quicker than old players because you're overpaying for potential rather than any actual quality and most promising young prospects never develop into top players.

Not sure you can point at good underlying stats when we've had the easiest start to the season in the league and looked toothless against a 10 man West Ham and a Forest team that last won away before half our squad was born.

I think the club would disagree with some of your post. Firstly, the overpaying. Whilst us fans may feel that the fees for some of the players have been too high, the club are likely to see these as investments for a return, rather than players. Therefore, Mudryk is not a £60m winger with potential, but an asset on which a return will be had.

Then we come to the potential superstar and value points.

The club do not need every young player to become a potential superstar. Again, as noted in my post earlier, if you take a long-term view, then the club can make big money on these players, even if they are middle of the road. Simply put, the club are banking on transfer fees to continue to increase exponentially.

Look at transfer fees 4 or 5 years ago. There were nowhere near the number of £40m players that there are now.  Look at the number of clubs who were signing £30m players 4 or 5 years ago. Again, there are now so many more clubs that are trading at those higher fees.  West ham buying players like Ward Prowse and Kudus. Forest buying player like Sangare. Newcastle buying players like Livremento and Hall.  Bournemouth shelling out 75 on players like Tyler Adams, Scott and Traore.  The list goes on. These types of players are not superstars.  The market is bigger. The fees are bigger. The club will be banking on this continuing.

If transfer fee inflation continues, then players that we are buying now for £25-£40m, could realistically go in 3-5 years time for £60-£100m.   Yes, there may be some duds in there. The likes of CHO who have a bad injury that derails their career - but the club will not need every player to be a hit.

 

As fans, we probably dont care too much about this kind of market speculation....but you can bet your life that Clearlake will.

And again .... it all comes down to how you measure success - and the timelines/prism that you view it through 1 or 2 years is probably not long enough - we need to start thinking longer term, and thinking strategically.

 

Four pl games in, might as well throw in the towel. 
 

the Forest result has really had a big impact it seems. The wounds of last season are still fresh so patience is at a premium. I get it. But think we should wait a few months before writing this season off and thinking we’re fcuked.

Many wise words on this thread.

However, two of the most important, if not the most important positions on the pitch still look vacant:

GK and Striker.

Add in a Cech and Drogba and I'm pretty sure we'd be beating Pool, West Ham and Forest and most of the other teams in the PL.

Edited September 5, 20232 yr by Bebe1980

7 hours ago, nonotnowjim said:

If transfer fee inflation continues, then players that we are buying now for £25-£40m, could realistically go in 3-5 years time for £60-£100m.   Yes, there may be some duds in there. The likes of CHO who have a bad injury that derails their career - but the club will not need every player to be a hit.

That is, increasingly, a big if.

FFP (local and UEFA) rules will cap transfer spending to just 70% of revenue in 2025, the global advertising bubble is approaching a crunch, and higher interest rates and tightened lending will impact corporate sponsorship. 

The above is probably a big reason why Blueco have opted to spend big now, but anyone just hoping things will get better financially is in for a rude shock.

I think we've got them right where we want them!

Long season ahead - has to improve one day, right?!?

On 05/09/2023 at 00:43, KonaKai Blue said:

What's most disheartening is that every season I lower my expectations and we end up even falling way below that. 

THIS !!! ⬆️⬆️⬆️

2 hours ago, PhilH930 said:

I think we've got them right where we want them!

Long season ahead - has to improve one day, right?!?

🤔🤔🤔I'm not sure any more

14 hours ago, nonotnowjim said:

I think the club would disagree with some of your post. Firstly, the overpaying. Whilst us fans may feel that the fees for some of the players have been too high, the club are likely to see these as investments for a return, rather than players. Therefore, Mudryk is not a £60m winger with potential, but an asset on which a return will be had.

Then we come to the potential superstar and value points.

The club do not need every young player to become a potential superstar. Again, as noted in my post earlier, if you take a long-term view, then the club can make big money on these players, even if they are middle of the road. Simply put, the club are banking on transfer fees to continue to increase exponentially.

Look at transfer fees 4 or 5 years ago. There were nowhere near the number of £40m players that there are now.  Look at the number of clubs who were signing £30m players 4 or 5 years ago. Again, there are now so many more clubs that are trading at those higher fees.  West ham buying players like Ward Prowse and Kudus. Forest buying player like Sangare. Newcastle buying players like Livremento and Hall.  Bournemouth shelling out 75 on players like Tyler Adams, Scott and Traore.  The list goes on. These types of players are not superstars.  The market is bigger. The fees are bigger. The club will be banking on this continuing.

If transfer fee inflation continues, then players that we are buying now for £25-£40m, could realistically go in 3-5 years time for £60-£100m.   Yes, there may be some duds in there. The likes of CHO who have a bad injury that derails their career - but the club will not need every player to be a hit.

 

As fans, we probably dont care too much about this kind of market speculation....but you can bet your life that Clearlake will.

And again .... it all comes down to how you measure success - and the timelines/prism that you view it through 1 or 2 years is probably not long enough - we need to start thinking longer term, and thinking strategically.

 

Morning mate, 

I see a ton of validity in what you say... and I think the emergence of the Saudi league has or will create an even bigger bubble... But for how long. Clearly these guys think transfer inflation is going to continue going north. Its their business model for sure... But are people watching the Saudi league? Will they stick with it? What league will come and pay more money for players from there? 

Realistically, who can afford the players we have signed? 

I really dont want to use him as an example as but will do as he's not settled very well nor getting game time but Mudryk cost a lot and will cost a lot per his contract. Will some Spanish or Italian or French league club come in for him? I really want this guy to do well so hopefully we dont need to keep signing wingers. 

I just dont see where extra revenue is going to come from outside of the game. who owns the rights to the football, will they continue to go up? Will companies bankrupt themselves to secure game rights again? My take on it is a continuous growth model isn't going to work unless you start squeezing the juice out of existing customers and double pay per view matches, subscriptions and everything else. I think the hype bubble will eventually pop, so then we'll have the global super club elite cup to replace the champions league with teams all over the world involved... 

 

gulp... 

 

 

16 hours ago, Whats_The_Mata? said:

If they're good signings then God help us we'll be playing Wimbledon every week if we make a few bad ones.

All but maybe two of those signings were massive overpays most will never be good enough and we have two signings on there that may be in contention for the worst signings the club has ever made.

there's a lot of emperors new clothes syndrome with some of our support who think every young player is a potential superstar but young players are much riskier signings they're not sustainable options and they deteriorate in value quicker than old players because you're overpaying for potential rather than any actual quality and most promising young prospects never develop into top players.

Not sure you can point at good underlying stats when we've had the easiest start to the season in the league and looked toothless against a 10 man West Ham and a Forest team that last won away before half our squad was born.

We won't be playing Wimbledon every week though, will we? A squad full of internationals isn't dropping to league 2. Stop with the hyperbole bollocks.

Lets break i down then. The two good signings, i'm assuming they'd be Enzo and Nkunku? What are the two worst signings the club has ever made? 

Older signings absolutely do not have more resale value than youngsters, what a load of bollocks again. Havertz is a proven case last summer that a youngster can be complete dog sh*t for 3 years and another club will still take a gamble on their 'potential'. 

Looked toothless against Forest? Be honest now, did you even watch the game? Even West Ham we completely dominated the game before the penalty miss. 

15 hours ago, The Brit said:

Four pl games in, might as well throw in the towel. 
 

the Forest result has really had a big impact it seems. The wounds of last season are still fresh so patience is at a premium. I get it. But think we should wait a few months before writing this season off and thinking we’re fcuked.

Remember the Conte season, everyone had written us off early then too, we got battered by Arsenal and Conte changed it all. We then went on to win the league, anyone giving up on this season after 4 games is a muppet.

58 minutes ago, RIP Mourinho said:

We won't be playing Wimbledon every week though, will we? A squad full of internationals isn't dropping to league 2. Stop with the hyperbole bollocks.

Lets break i down then. The two good signings, i'm assuming they'd be Enzo and Nkunku? What are the two worst signings the club has ever made? 

Older signings absolutely do not have more resale value than youngsters, what a load of bollocks again. Havertz is a proven case last summer that a youngster can be complete dog sh*t for 3 years and another club will still take a gamble on their 'potential'. 

Looked toothless against Forest? Be honest now, did you even watch the game? Even West Ham we completely dominated the game before the penalty miss. 

Completely wasting your time on that clown pal, he hasnt written a single sensible thing on this forum since he joined. He thinks Todd is just pulling these names out of a hat and signing them himself.

Theres a definite plan on these signings, this will have been ran through committees multiple times a is the American sports way. Whether it works or not is still to be seen, we wont know for 2 maybe even 3 years just how well/badly it has gone. 

50 minutes ago, dkw said:

Completely wasting your time on that clown pal, he hasnt written a single sensible thing on this forum since he joined. He thinks Todd is just pulling these names out of a hat and signing them himself.

Theres a definite plan on these signings, this will have been ran through committees multiple times a is the American sports way. Whether it works or not is still to be seen, we wont know for 2 maybe even 3 years just how well/badly it has gone. 

There's a couple of these posters on here now that are yet to make a single good post.

49 minutes ago, dkw said:

Completely wasting your time on that clown pal, he hasnt written a single sensible thing on this forum since he joined. He thinks Todd is just pulling these names out of a hat and signing them himself.

Theres a definite plan on these signings, this will have been ran through committees multiple times a is the American sports way. Whether it works or not is still to be seen, we wont know for 2 maybe even 3 years just how well/badly it has gone. 

My biggest worry in all this is that there's a good chance we end up with a similar squad in terms of quality as the one we just sold and we just put the wrong manager in at the wrong time in Potter.

Did we need such a drastic change in such a short period of time?