Got a feeling that next season we'll see a number of our loanees return to our first team squad...Conte will get some big signings I'm sure but equally he'll be told to integrate our serial trophy winning youths players into the first team squad too...and about time too...

Edited June 4, 20179 yr by doctorblue

Men I'm getting annoyed as we are sitting in our hands as usual. 

Just like last summer low balling everything and end up panicking buy in the end. 

This is not looking good to me. 

Transfer should have been already been identified long ago and worked on. 

Is Bale worth a shout? Hazard and Bale could be amazing up top.

I know he's got a bad injury record, but our medical team seems to be really good. Costa had ongoing hamstring issues when he joined and he's barely been injured in the last year or 2, in fact we hardly ever get any injuries that aren't freak occurances, like Zouma's. 

 

4 hours ago, Bulshizza said:

Men I'm getting annoyed as we are sitting in our hands as usual. 

Just like last summer low balling everything and end up panicking buy in the end. 

This is not looking good to me. 

Transfer should have been already been identified long ago and worked on. 

You know for sure that has not been done?

If you can could arrange an interview with Roman for me, I would be much obliged.

Just now, Bulshizza said:

Men I'm getting annoyed as we are sitting in our hands as usual. 

Just like last summer low balling everything and end up panicking buy in the end. 

This is not looking good to me. 

Transfer should have been already been identified long ago and worked on. 

Shut up.

The Missus' dad is a Wolves fan and he's under the impression us and the Scousers are battling it out for Helder Costa. Figure of around 20M floating about.

Getting linked too Dani Alves by some decent sources now. Apparantly we have been offered him by Juventus.

For me its a no even if he was good for Juve this season.

1 hour ago, Sindre said:

Getting linked too Dani Alves by some decent sources now. Apparantly we have been offered him by Juventus.

For me its a no even if he was good for Juve this season.

Don't agree As you say had a good season, thought he played well yesterday, and if Moses is Conte's main man next season then makes perfect sense....

Just now, Tambling Dice said:

Don't agree As you say had a good season, thought he played well yesterday, and if Moses is Conte's main man next season then makes perfect sense....

I thought he was poor defensively, left loads of space in behind that Madrid exploited.

On 03/06/2017 at 18:14, JJP said:

Thats where you are fooled.. Buying a player for 500k and selling them for a few million might seem like good business (which im not saying it isnt) but when you look at the size of our club, a few million is practically nothing. We could easily just have got more 5million for Oscar and straight away we would have made the same money.

Also, in the majority of cases, we are the ones paying the salary of the players while they are on loan, so its just a waste when a lot of them wont even make it

 

Rarely do we get to know the breakdown of the financial terms of the loan deals but to suggest that the policy is just about getting a fee down the line is far from the whole story quite often on top of either their full wage or part off there is also a fee which in the case of many players is their amortised value.All monies received in this respect appear in the player trading account. In other words transfer fees received.

I am not quite sure those running the club would quite as easily dismiss the odd million or two coming into the coffers & I suspect they would argue that in relation to the Oscar transfer they did indeed squeeze that extra £5 million out of the buying club . I suspect also they feel that the whole loan player project  enables the club to test players in a competitive environment and yes many won't make the grade but some will . How else can they be tested in truly competitive matches?

The  project is not just self financing it also forms an important and welcomed additional income stream 

Its important to remember that players contracted to Chelsea are paid, in accordance with FA rules though Chelseas payroll. That means even though say Tammy was on loan at Bristol City all of his wages are paid by Chelsea. One of the benefits with that is with little impact you can sell a player or two on from the loan army releasing their wages and should there ever be any FFP issues in terms of the overall wage growth which is limited to £7 million per annum the club have room to manoeuvre should the need arise.

Another important consideration is that all the costs of the academy are discounted for FFP purposes. 

In accounting terms for say Atsu we paid £3.5  million for him in 2013 on a 5 year contract. In 2017 his amortised value ( a players value decreases over the period of his contract) would be £700k so selling him for £6.5 million is actually a profit of £5.8 million. 

We have some very clever cookies  working at Chelsea. When everyone was suggesting we would fail FFP we didn't that wasn't luck it was because they know the numbers, know how to work their way around rules and regulations and as that famous advert says " every little helps"

 

Edited June 4, 20179 yr by terraloon

Shame we put all this effort into making more money to take FFP into account and it's basically being ignored by other clubs to no real detriment.

with the amount revenue has increased due to tv deals and sponsorships, I can see the argument for reducing the loan numbers. Especially with ffp more relaxed than when it was introduced. 

I also think this is something the club is in the process of doing, we haven't brought in as many youth team or academy players from abroad as we were doing a few years back. 

There's still a bunch of players from that time like piazon, kalas, omerue etc, that I'm sure the club will move on, and what we are then left with, are academy prospects going out on loan to gain experience to help them make a career in football, either at chelsea or elsewhere. 

19 hours ago, CarefreeSimmo_ said:

The Missus' dad is a Wolves fan and he's under the impression us and the Scousers are battling it out for Helder Costa. Figure of around 20M floating about.

20M for a Championship player? Behave. He ain't better than Moses and we paid less than half that for him.

https://www.thesun.co.uk/sport/football/3726885/manchester-united-chelsea-transfer-renato-sanches-douglas-costa/?CMP=Spklr-_-Editorial-_-SunSport-_-Sport-_-TwImageandlink-_-Statement-_-TWITTER

renato sanches for £30m? seems tailor made for the prem. I'm not sure douglas costa is much of an upgrade though.  

Courtois

Christensen Luiz Van Dijk

Semedo Kante Tolliso Sandro

Sanchez Costa Hazard 

With Morata bought too... 

There's £200m spent already...if Van Dijk doesn't come then I'd consider getting Laporte or promoting Ake or moving Dave to the left 

Edited June 5, 20179 yr by doctorblue

This might come across wrong and I certainly don't wish such things even onnbitter rivals but haz being out may help our incoming, no way will conte risk not having a top backup in case of complications healing 

18 minutes ago, doctorblue said:

Courtois

Van Dijk Luiz Christensen

Sandro Kante Tolliso Semedo

Hazard Costa Sanchez 

With Morata bought too... 

There's £200m spent already...

Doubt we getting sanchez or sandro. 

Sanchez is a hope but Sandro is possible especially as he's only getting £50-60k a week at Juventus...money talks 

Seen a few rumours linking Di Maria to Chelsea... he would be a great signing and has a point to prove 

22 hours ago, big blue said:

with the amount revenue has increased due to tv deals and sponsorships, I can see the argument for reducing the loan numbers. Especially with ffp more relaxed than when it was introduced. 

I also think this is something the club is in the process of doing, we haven't brought in as many youth team or academy players from abroad as we were doing a few years back. 

There's still a bunch of players from that time like piazon, kalas, omerue etc, that I'm sure the club will move on, and what we are then left with, are academy prospects going out on loan to gain experience to help them make a career in football, either at chelsea or elsewhere. 

Don't rule out the "slowing down" as part of the plan all along.

To use a fruit and veg analogy, maybe we had to source our stock from outside sources while we were waiting for our own crops to mature.

23 hours ago, terraloon said:

 

Rarely do we get to know the breakdown of the financial terms of the loan deals but to suggest that the policy is just about getting a fee down the line is far from the whole story quite often on top of either their full wage or part off there is also a fee which in the case of many players is their amortised value.All monies received in this respect appear in the player trading account. In other words transfer fees received.

I am not quite sure those running the club would quite as easily dismiss the odd million or two coming into the coffers & I suspect they would argue that in relation to the Oscar transfer they did indeed squeeze that extra £5 million out of the buying club . I suspect also they feel that the whole loan player project  enables the club to test players in a competitive environment and yes many won't make the grade but some will . How else can they be tested in truly competitive matches?

The  project is not just self financing it also forms an important and welcomed additional income stream 

Its important to remember that players contracted to Chelsea are paid, in accordance with FA rules though Chelseas payroll. That means even though say Tammy was on loan at Bristol City all of his wages are paid by Chelsea. One of the benefits with that is with little impact you can sell a player or two on from the loan army releasing their wages and should there ever be any FFP issues in terms of the overall wage growth which is limited to £7 million per annum the club have room to manoeuvre should the need arise.

Another important consideration is that all the costs of the academy are discounted for FFP purposes. 

In accounting terms for say Atsu we paid £3.5  million for him in 2013 on a 5 year contract. In 2017 his amortised value ( a players value decreases over the period of his contract) would be £700k so selling him for £6.5 million is actually a profit of £5.8 million. 

We have some very clever cookies  working at Chelsea. When everyone was suggesting we would fail FFP we didn't that wasn't luck it was because they know the numbers, know how to work their way around rules and regulations and as that famous advert says " every little helps"

 

 

Well then... That my friend is one fine breakdown. I'll have to concede my point I guess. But i also still stand by the point that we really don't need 30+ loanees to do this, we can easily accomplish the same by reducing the quantity and having quality instead

16 minutes ago, JJP said:

 

Well then... That my friend is one fine breakdown. I'll have to concede my point I guess. But i also still stand by the point that we really don't need 30+ loanees to do this, we can easily accomplish the same by reducing the quantity and having quality instead

Reducing the quantity will also reduce the chance of discovering quality. If it was that easy to find young players that turn out to be class, more teams would do it.

I am genuinly curious to why this bothers you so much, its not like its your job to keep track of everyone.

Edited June 5, 20179 yr by Xfaxtor

7 minutes ago, Xfaxtor said:

Reducing the quantity will also reduce the chance of discovering quality. If it was that easy to find young players that turn out to be class, more teams would do it.

I am genuinly curious to why this bothers you so much, its not like its your job to keep track of everyone.

 

I dont think so, because a lot of the players we have on loan are of poor quality. And I believe the main reason for us loaning players should be to develop them. We have been loaning out players from our youth academy recently which i definitely agree with because there are a lot of talented players.. But what i dont agree with are buying players like Delac and just constantly loaning them endless times.

 

I just dont like the idea of us having that many players out on loan when a lot of them arent good enough, we enough quality players to loan them off and develop them properly instead of saturate them and have less focus on each individual. I mean in the earlier times of our mass loaning we had players like Courtois, KDB and Lukaku and now we have players like Hector..

16 minutes ago, JJP said:

 

I dont think so, because a lot of the players we have on loan are of poor quality. And I believe the main reason for us loaning players should be to develop them. We have been loaning out players from our youth academy recently which i definitely agree with because there are a lot of talented players.. But what i dont agree with are buying players like Delac and just constantly loaning them endless times.

 

I just dont like the idea of us having that many players out on loan when a lot of them arent good enough, we enough quality players to loan them off and develop them properly instead of saturate them and have less focus on each individual. I mean in the earlier times of our mass loaning we had players like Courtois, KDB and Lukaku and now we have players like Hector..

 

I've tried to resist but you do talk a load of nonsense.

We should scrap our academy as well then because "a lot of them are not good enough".

Let's just take what we think are the best two 8 year old's in the country and hope we hit the 1,00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 to one shot that in 10 years time one of them will make it.

Sorry JJP, above post was probably needlessly harsh in tone. I should be more constuctive. So on our "loan network"....

First and main point is that the club originally started it with the primary purpose of making a profit. Simplistically, finding a first team player through the process is a profit too in that it saves having to spend x amount to buy one. But the main point with understanding it's purpose was to generate profit is that there is no way in hell it can be profitable if we were paying the wages of the players out on loan. I've seen you mention this and you are wrong to state otherwise. The people running our club are not idiots when it comes to money of all matters. For the vast majority of players out on loan we are paying little to none of their wages. For the more higher profile ones we also receive a loan fee.

 

Now you can point out some duds but no investor in any market has a 100% success rate. In fact any investor with a 100% success rate is probably a bad one, being ultra cautious and thus passing on many hugely profitable options. Still, most of the duds result in minor loses, we are not spending £20m on "loan warriors". You yourself nonchalantly dismissed a couple of million profit as nothing to a club of our size earlier in this thread so why are you so bothered about a couple million loss on a player here or a player there.

Papy, Bamford, de Bruyne, Lukaku, Atsu, Perica, Thorgan Hazard, Romeu, all of these generated profits, some small, some huge.

Moses spent a few seasons out on loan, not successfully but probably recouped almost half his original fee in loan fees. A starter in PL winning side, probably worth £25m.

Courtois cost us NOTHING!!! Atletico's loan fees paid his whole transfer fee. One of the best goalkeepers in the world, probably fetch £70m if we put him for sale tomorrow.

That's two starters in a title winning side, worth close to £100m, which cost the club roughly £5m in transfer fees thanks to the loan model.

Bertrand Traore being linked with moves for roughly £15m this summer.

Nathan Ake valued at near £20m I imagine, reports we turned down close to that from Bournemouth in January.

Andreas Christensen is returning this summer. If we wanted to sell him he'd fetch at least £40m.

 

I have no idea why you and others only choose to focus on the very minor negatives and ignore the glaringly obvious HUGE benefits.

Maybe you need to come to terms with the fact that not every player Chelsea buy is being bought with the thought that they're going to become first team players. If the odd one does then fantastic, much like kids coming through the academy but do not try to dismiss something which clearly works perfectly well for the purpose it was designed for just because you either don't understand it or indeed like it.