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Did Roman sack managers too quickly?


loz

Were these managers sacked too soon or correctly?  

133 members have voted

  1. 1. Were these mangers sacked too soon or at the right time?

    • Ranieri - Too Soon
      53
    • Ranieri - Correctly
      77
    • Mourinho - Too Soon
      113
    • Mourinho - Correctly
      17
    • Grant - Too Soon
      30
    • Grant - Correctly
      97
    • Scolari - Too Soon
      7
    • Scolari - Correctly
      121
    • Ancelotti - Too Soon
      111
    • Ancelotti - Correctly
      21
    • Villa Boas - Too Soon
      64
    • Villa Boas - Correctly
      65


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I put this in the AVB sacked thread (so apologies for repeating it) but just thought it might be interesting to run it as a poll (quite Sunday in football - only a manager being sacked and Spurs getting thumped to talk about!).

You can make multiple choices (obviously) so please only make one choice for each manager.

I feel we need to move away from judging managerial decisions based on the need to move away from a rollercoaster model. Ideally we would have a stable period with one manager however the desire to have that shouldn’t result in keeping a manager if there are grave doubts over his ability.

In my opinion each decision should be judged on its own merit.

With that in mind lets look at the managers Roman has sacked and give some thought to whether their sacking was justified. I have done this by reviewing what the manager achieved in their time and whether they have done enough, or showed sufficient potential, to be given longer in the hot seat (rather than by what the successor achieved).

1. The Tinkerman.

Took us into the CL without Roman’s money, in his first season with Roman’s money we finished as league runners up, collapsed against Monaco in the CL (could be argued the relentless talk about his future didn’t help in that regard) and brought in, or developed, the core of the team that went on to become the core of Jose’s successful era. In my opinion sacked too soon, he had earned the right to a longer stay.

2. The Special One

Most successful manager in our history by a country mile. Don’t need to spell out what he achieved as we all know it. Things were slightly on the slide when he left (although we still finished second in his final full season) however his dismissal was probably far more to with personal issues with Roman than footballing matters. Sacked too soon.

3. Avram Grant

Took us to second in the league, runners up in the league cup (a grim day) and our first, and still only, CL final, and achieved this despite having to battle against the ghost of Jose haunting him. Did enough in his part season to deserve another season so sacked too soon.

4. Scolari – a disaster. The worst appointment Roman has made. Negligible domestic experience and boy did it show. We were sliding at a ridiculous pace under his guidance and he paid for it with his job after only 9 months. Hiddink came in on a temporary basis and rescued our season – something that made it even more apparent how out of his depth Scolari was. Sacked correctly.

5. Ancelotti – won the double in his first season with a team that scored over 100 league goals. Finished his second season as league runner up after a second half of the season that turned round an average first half. Sacked too soo

6. AVB – Debated to death in here already so I won’t repeat the points. Sacked correctly.

So in my opinion four of the six had done enough to be given longer in the job and two were correctly removed.

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Unfortunately for AVB he did nothing to help himself, CA should have been given at least another year and so should have AG.

With regards to JM, hes a great manager and will no doubt be the best of all time but he had to understand that even though you may not agree with your boss you still need to put a brave face on and carry on, it was definetely a clash of personalities and that is also why I dont think he would ever be our manager again

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I have to ask. Wasn't Grant just an interim manager? I never saw him as a replacement for seasons to come, but more of a manager who took over for the rest of the season, just like Robbie will be doing now.

If so, is it really fair to have him on the list? Then we might as well have Guus there.

Anyway, I voted:

Ranieri - Correctly

Mourinho - Too soon

Grant - Correctly

Scolari - Correctly

Ancelotti - Too soon

Boas - Correctly

Though I must admit that I can't remember what I felt when Ancelotti left. Not sure if I was for or against it at the time.

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I have to ask. Wasn't Grant just an interim manager? I never saw him as a replacement for seasons to come, but more of a manager who took over for the rest of the season, just like Robbie will be doing now.

If so, is it really fair to have him on the list? Then we might as well have Guus there.

Anyway, I voted:

Ranieri - Correctly

Mourinho - Too soon

Grant - Correctly

Scolari - Correctly

Ancelotti - Too soon

Boas - Correctly

Though I must admit that I can't remember what I felt when Ancelotti left. Not sure if I was for or against it at the time.

He was appointed on an interim basis at first and then given a 5 year contract.

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JM and Carlo definetly too soon. Grant took us to a Champions League final so it could be argued he should have been given more time. Claudio didnt quite have what was needed to take us onto the next level. Scholari was a disaster. AVB possibly gets more sympathy than results deserve purely cos we sacked the last man totally wrongly and we all crave stability. For me AVB has quietly been digging his own grave with his press comments and will probably be happy he has now been given a get out of jail card to rebuild his career whilst not having to worry about the mortgage. The next year or so will determine if he was correctly sacked, its far too early to say without knowing how much truth there is in what has gone on behind the screens.

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Claud - too soon, he may not have been sacked if things were different with Mourinho

Mourinho - I don't think this was really a sacking as such, more mutual sacking (if one ever existed)

Grant - Correct

Scolari - Correct (best decision he's made)

Ancelotti - Too soon, I was distraught when he left and he should've definitely been given one more chance at least

AVB - too soon, I was excited about this 'project' to be honest and am disappointed that the players have won

Edited by 1905.
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Its funny how people remember things.

my view is this

Ranieri - Correctly, once the expectation went up he wasnt the man to take us forward. Felt sorry for him though.

Mourinho - Huge mistake looking back BUT at the time things were very wrong between him and the owner and seeming not going to get better.

Grant - Correctly, it was a mistake putting him in charge in the first place. He was never going to be accepted as manager.

Scolari - Correctly, he was too old school, he wasnt up to date with the modern game or players.

Ancelotti - Correctly, i think people may forget he never had a plan B, those games against United were just shocking. Maybe with more backing in the transfer window things could have been different.

Boas - Too soon. He has hardly been given a fair chance. Player power has gone against him. And those players are a disgrace to the club. It should be the likes of Cole being sacked for not doing his job not AVB.

Going forward we need a manager that the board are going to stick with no matter what. There is so much dead wood in the squad and that all needs to be replaced. The reason that we are where we are now is because of the constant revolving door for managers at Chelsea. No one is given time to build a new team.

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This is a very difficult question to answer, because there are two ways of looking at it.

To take Ranieri's departure as an example:

1) Did Claudio Ranieri deserve to be sacked?

No. He made good purchases and the club progressed very well under him. He may have made crucial mistakes in places (the Monaco debacle, signing Kezman...) but ultimately he was doing a reasonably good job. He built a top-notch squad, got us into the Champions League when our transfer fund was a pittance and then when Roman came in he got them into the semi-finals at his first attempt.

2) Was it the right decision to remove Ranieri in light of the fact that he was replaced by José Mourinho?

Of course, Mourinho made us a world class team and gave us the most successful period in our history.

Two completely different answers to the same question.

At the moment I'm procrastinating on an essay so I probably shouldn't try and solve this conundrum in this post, but for now that is the problem I'm musing over.

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Other than Mourinho's "sacking", this one felt the most wrong. I feel Scolari should've been sacked because he had no experience at club level, the players looked unfit and we were falling down the table. Ranieri was right as we got Jose instead (which was the plan) and Grants dismissal was correct as he was plain right boring and shouldnt have been there in the first place.

Yes, AVB was poor and was clueless. But the players didn't help at all, and put him under pressure. AVB is young and had a plan. Now, unless we replace him with Mourinho, then his sacking was way too soon.

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I go along with this. Even Jose had lost his way at the time... Avram would have bored us all to death by now...

I said in summer and many of you said I was talking rubbish. JT, FL and DD needed to go in the summer for AVB to have any chance of success.

I have to say DD has gained some respect from me though cause he has clearly been seen trying to bring manager and players closer in recent times.

However, given current circumstances and AVB having lost the dressing room it has to be a correct decision.

Summer needs a clear out tho and b4 Jose comes back...

Ranieri - Correctly, once the expectation went up he wasnt the man to take us forward. Felt sorry for him though.

Mourinho - Huge mistake looking back BUT at the time things were very wrong between him and the owner and seeming not going to get better.

Grant - Correctly, it was a mistake putting him in charge in the first place. He was never going to be accepted as manager.

Scolari - Correctly, he was too old school, he wasnt up to date with the modern game or players.

Ancelotti - Correctly, i think people may forget he never had a plan B, those games against United were just shocking. Maybe with more backing in the transfer window things could have been different.

Boas - Too soon. He has hardly been given a fair chance. Player power has gone against him. And those players are a disgrace to the club. It should be the likes of Cole being sacked for not doing his job not AVB.

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Inter are at home to Catania at the moment. I can't see Ranieri in charge at Inter for much longer: let's go full circle and appoint Ranieri, so Abramovic can correct his mistake of sacking Ranieri too soon.

I think I will get my coat now....

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I always felt bad about the way that Carlo Ancelloti was treated and I now feel similarly about AVB.

I don't think it makes sense, having got rid of AVB, to replace him with De Matteo - albeit only to the end of the season. I know RDM's been a loyal Chelsea servant in the past but he didn't particularly set WBA ablaze and was, after all, AVB's right hand man until today.

Surely it would have made sense to leave AVB until the end of the season. Just my humble opinion.

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Carlo's sacking was ridiculous, he was turning things around leading up to the end of the season.

For AVB, it's really a matter of getting him out of the misery. It hasn't worked, and there are no signs of improvement. It's a matter of when not if, Roman just got fed up with him.

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To be honest my gripe with AVB getting sacked has nothing to do with results, nothing to do with how I rate him as a manager, its all about class and honesty which Chelsea to me have are severely lacking for some time.

Heres the thing,

It started with Ranieri, a good Manager that put together a good group of players on a budget and had them performing well, second place in the League and even getting past a great Arsenal team that had the beating of them for years and years.

Then the Monaco game where with Mourinho waiting in the wings and Claudio blew a gasket somewhere...he knew he was out and tried to go out with a bang, ridiculous tactics and subs in that game and he was gone, forever to be labelled by the Chelsea "faithful" as Tinkerman.

He deserved another season with Abramovich backing him and instead we get the circus act of the "special one" Mourinho came in to an already strong squad, he was given huge funds to spend and used them well, he brought the team an invincable image and they believed it.

3 good seasons then a mix of Roman wanting prettier Football and his moaning in the third season with the bad eggs talk and the need for yet more money saw him falling out of favour with the owner, 6 or 7 games in he is off...for me, in all honesty he shouldn't have been sacked, his record was great and the players believed in him, I grew tired of his ego and was quietly happy when he went.

Grant, Silly appointment unyet he done very well with a team that had lost their motivator,

he steadied the ship and has still been the nearest Chelsea boss to a CL win, my gripe with his sacking is he was given a Job to do and did it well enough to get another season, he may have looked boring and been easy again for the Chelsea "faithful" to take the piss out of but he done a fair Job and never deserved the sack.

Scolari, came in and looked like he would be a legend, the team was playing some good stuff but players started to complain about his training methods and he had a fall out with Drogba...the team started to look unmotivated, the losses started to pile up, he was sacked because (for me) a mixture of player power and the board not bothering to sit down with him and try to sort out the training or maybe leave a lot of it to someone more used to dealing everyday with players than him as he was too used to the international way. Maybe the most understandable sacking but for me too soon.

Hiddink, stop gap and done well, how much of that was down to the new manager effect and the players getting behind him and how long into the next season it would have lasted, I don't know but I would have been happy enough if he had stayed.

Ancelotti, great Manager, great CV and we played some good football under him, the players went into their annual bad moment in his first season but he managed to clear the air and get through it, by now the best players from Mourinhos season are looking jaded and a transition should gradually have been taking place, Chelsea win their first double, his next season starts fine but the annual bad moment proves trickier to get through, a loss to Mourinhos Inter makes a lot of the "faithfull" turn on him and although a late rally sees the team back in second place in the league,he is gone...disasterous sacking for me, a man that had brought a bit of dignity to the club and a bit of humility with some excellent football from a team well past their best.

AVB, never wanted him but once he got theJob, as usual I backed him, he was given a task of taking the team through transition, getting rid of some of the older high earners who had had their best days and bringing in some plaers to bring a new style, bringing some youngsters through and he was likely given a timescale to do it in...now for me this timescale wasn't eight months, it was more likely talked about in his interviews as two seasons at least, he had some decent results but with some key injuries, some lack of experience and some unsettling players things got difficult.

I don't know if he is any good but I am sick of the way Abramovic throws his toys out of the pram and ruins peoples reputations almost annually.

I really think his money while bringing trophies, has ruined the club.

I know some decisions need to be made for a club trying to compete at the highest level but if a plan is put to a manager and a contract signed, I feel they should get a fair crack of the whip before they are sacked, I really don't think AVB had anything like time enough to change anything and the threat of the sack makes it hard, with the best will in the world for any Chelsea manager to even give the young players a chance,,,I feel it will just go round in circles.

Said all this many times but as Loz has started a thread on the subject, Ithought I would stick my two bobs worth in, to be honest I've grown more alienated from the Club I've supported since being a tiny kid with every pasing sacking, and don't expect treatment of the next man in charge to re-establish my faith int he game as it now is.

Edited by Chippy
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I liked Ranieri but I didn't think he'd ever take us to the league title. Many would have disagreed at the time but in hindsight it was the correct decision. Mourinho, bad decision, although it was more about him and Roman than footballing reasons. Grant did well as an interim but he never had the pedigree for us long-term, so correct decision. Scolari was awful so correct decision. Carlo, bad decision. Deserved the benefit of the doubt after winning the Double. Personally I'd have given AVB a chance, but no present day Chelsea manager can expect to survive with 5 wins from 16 games.

Another thing to consider; not just whether we were right to sack a manager, but whether the replacement was an improvement on the one who'd just been sacked. Mourinho better than Ranieri, yes. Grant an improvement on Mourinho, nope. Scolari an improvement on Grant, nope. Hiddink and Carlo were both an improvement on Scolari. AVB an improvement on Carlo? Nope.

Which has made me think, for all the good Roman has done for us, the number of poor decisions that have been made in the last 9 years is astonishing. Kenyon, £60m+ on manager payoffs, £30m on Shevchenko, sacking Mourinho, sacking Wilkins without even consulting Carlo and then imposing a new assistant, £50m on Torres, sacking a Double-winning manager and replacing him with a young, inexperienced coach to oversee a long-term project, and then sacking him after 7 months in the job. Not to mention the poor handling of the CPO vote, the mismanaged youth policy, tapping up Eriksson and Cole, Arnesen, and so on.

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I went with Ranieri as correctly because I was only about 9 when he was sacked so I dont really know :laugh2:

Mourinho was definatly too soon, we could have had it all.

Grant, correctly because nowhere near being good enough

Scolari, correctly

Anchellotti, correctly. I don't think he had any intention of phasing out the old guard any time soon. Crakin bloke, got us the double but we were going down hill

AVB, too soon. Still think that he could have been the one to oversee the old guard being phased out. Yes he made a bit of a hash of it this season but I think he would have done it in the summer. He started promisingly, lost his bottle early on and never recovered. I have no doubt he will go on to be one the most successful managers the game has seen.

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Ranieri - correct decision, I've always liked him and he conducted himself well under immense pressure but we where stepping up into being an elite club and he wasn't good enough

Mourinho - correct decision in non-footballing terms as there was a fall out between him and the board, incorrect in footballing terms as he was still doing well

Grant - correct, not a good enough coach as has been shown with his next coaching jobs, the incorrect decision was offering the contract extension. All he did was steady the ship, his tactical nous was severely lacking as I can only think of one occasion where his subs changed the game

Scolari - correct decision, wasn't a good enough coach, struggled to communicate his ideas to the players should never have gotten the job in the first place

Ancelotti - Incorrect should have been given another season, managed to recover the team from their bad moment, have to think he was released early to get AVB in

AVB - correct, job was too much too soon for him, needed another season in Porto to build up his experience also needed the old guard moved on as they all knew him as a scout and you'd have to wonder if they where all happy taking orders from him.

Edited by Hitsu
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To be honest my gripe with AVB getting sacked has nothing to do with results, nothing to do with how I rate him as a manager, its all about class and honesty which Chelsea to me have are severely lacking for some time.

Heres the thing,

It started with Ranieri, a good Manager that put together a good group of players on a budget and had them performing well, second place in the League and even getting past a great Arsenal team that had the beating of them for years and years.

Then the Monaco game where with Mourinho waiting in the wings and Claudio blew a gasket somewhere...he knew he was out and tried to go out with a bang, ridiculous tactics and subs in that game and he was gone, forever to be labelled by the Chelsea "faithful" as Tinkerman.

He deserved another season with Abramovich backing him and instead we get the circus act of the "special one" Mourinho came in to an already strong squad, he was given huge funds to spend and used them well, he brought the team an invincable image and they believed it.

3 good seasons then a mix of Roman wanting prettier Football and his moaning in the third season with the bad eggs talk and the need for yet more money saw him falling out of favour with the owner, 6 or 7 games in he is off...for me, in all honesty he shouldn't have been sacked, his record was great and the players believed in him, I grew tired of his ego and was quietly happy when he went.

Grant, Silly appointment unyet he done very well with a team that had lost their motivator,

he steadied the ship and has still been the nearest Chelsea boss to a CL win, my gripe with his sacking is he was given a Job to do and did it well enough to get another season, he may have looked boring and been easy again for the Chelsea "faithful" to take the piss out of but he done a fair Job and never deserved the sack.

Scolari, came in and looked like he would be a legend, the team was playing some good stuff but players started to complain about his training methods and he had a fall out with Drogba...the team started to look unmotivated, the losses started to pile up, he was sacked because (for me) a mixture of player power and the board not bothering to sit down with him and try to sort out the training or maybe leave a lot of it to someone more used to dealing everyday with players than him as he was too used to the international way. Maybe the most understandable sacking but for me too soon.

Hiddink, stop gap and done well, how much of that was down to the new manager effect and the players getting behind him and how long into the next season it would have lasted, I don't know but I would have been happy enough if he had stayed.

Ancelotti, great Manager, great CV and we played some good football under him, the players went into their annual bad moment in his first season but he managed to clear the air and get through it, by now the best players from Mourinhos season are looking jaded and a transition should gradually have been taking place, Chelsea win their first double, his next season starts fine but the annual bad moment proves trickier to get through, a loss to Mourinhos Inter makes a lot of the "faithfull" turn on him and although a late rally sees the team back in second place in the league,he is gone...disasterous sacking for me, a man that had brought a bit of dignity to the club and a bit of humility with some excellent football from a team well past their best.

AVB, never wanted him but once he got theJob, as usual I backed him, he was given a task of taking the team through transition, getting rid of some of the older high earners who had had their best days and bringing in some plaers to bring a new style, bringing some youngsters through and he was likely given a timescale to do it in...now for me this timescale wasn't eight months, it was more likely talked about in his interviews as two seasons at least, he had some decent results but with some key injuries, some lack of experience and some unsettling players things got difficult.

I don't know if he is any good but I am sick of the way Abramovic throws his toys out of the pram and ruins peoples reputations almost annually.

I really think his money while bringing trophies, has ruined the club.

I know some decisions need to be made for a club trying to compete at the highest level but if a plan is put to a manager and a contract signed, I feel they should get a fair crack of the whip before they are sacked, I really don't think AVB had anything like time enough to change anything and the threat of the sack makes it hard, with the best will in the world for any Chelsea manager to even give the young players a chance,,,I feel it will just go round in circles.

Said all this many times but as Loz has started a thread on the subject, Ithought I would stick my two bobs worth in, to be honest I've grown more alienated from the Club I've supported since being a tiny kid with every pasing sacking, and don't expect treatment of the next man in charge to re-establish my faith int he game as it now is.

You should read Neil Ashton piece in the Mail Chippy. Throws an interesting light on the whole situation. You can argue the rights and wrongs but if this is true then he had no choice with AVB.

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