Sweddy there is a discussion to be had on the selection of Mata and, to a lesser extent Dave, but for anyone to spin it as an anti-spanish plot or a pre-meditated rejection of Benitez's selection policy is just daft and I think you know it.

 

a pre meditated rejection of Rafa's selections but if you say so....

Crucify me for thinking outloud

 

I will only comment from now on when i have something pro Jose yes?

 

Comment when you like for me, if you want to read something into a managers choice of players even after the rare event of an explanation from the man himself then that's up to you, I just wonder why you and others might feel the need.

 

What more would you want Jose to say other than his answers to Redknapp and Gullit? he's said Mata has a future here if he can knuckle down and play the way he's being asked, he's said Mata has responded in a professional way and that for me is enough.

 

He also said Ivan has been one of his better players and he likes his input at RB, he feels at this time he's his number one there and now it will be up to Azpi to take any chances he gets to impress.

 

Torres is getting chances.

 

I don't think Jose will care who Benitez selected...should he drop Cech and Ramires as well because Rafa used them? he won't be too worried about the ghost of Rafa

overpowering his efforts, I don't think a Europa cup and hanging on to third place are high on Joses list of must haves.

 

The nationality of players is imo nothing to do with them being selected and I really only bother to put my opposition to the theory because once these things start you get all sorts of posts coming out of the woodwork to the same effect.

 

 

Edit:

 

The Spaniard took part in a training session on the morning of the game and his next appearance will be in Tuesday’s clash at the County Ground for his team’s third-round tie against League One opposition.

Mourinho said: “He took it the way I wanted. He trained in the morning and my assistant told me he trained very hard.

“He plays from the beginning against Swindon.

“I hope he tells me on the pitch ‘you are wrong, I am the best and I have to play in every game’. I would love that.”

Edited September 22, 201312 yr by Chippy

Jose Mourhino the noted anti Spanish coach who coached, managed, and had great success, over many years, in err...well...Spain....

^ hmmm barring winning the league once i wouldnt call it great success in Spain in terms with what he's done elsewhere. But this is another discussion

 

Chippy - you make a fair point however Jose has often played up for the media so I wouldn't read too much into what he's said. Mata may have responded professionally which is no more than i'd suspect from him as he seems an ultimate professional but if things were to carry on the same way (IF) then you can't tell me Mata would be happy by January and wouldn't possibly try and engineer a move away one of which I believe Jose may very well approve. Especially if he's so content with Oscar occupying the no. 10 role. This I think for the season could prove catastrophic.

 

I get the Ivan at RB although it is for all to see that he is sh*te at going forward and although solid at the back we are relying on our full backs for pace and attacking ability. Cesar especially towards the end of last season provided that! So I'm just not sure how 7 or so games into the season we haven't seen Cesar get a chance to show. Although rightly so he will on tuesday so im hoping he can convince him then.

 

Torres is getting chances as you say but to pick Eto'o for three games in a row playing roughly 240 minutes.  This guy is clearly not sharp yet just seems strange to me. Is he that unconvinced with Torres? Probably yes just thinks hes sh*te but i thought surely Eto'o would be eased into the premier league environment and had time to gather his sharpness back. Torres had a good game against Bayern but to be demoted immediately at Everton just seemed strange and then again in the CL. But yeah call me crazy.

 

Like i say i don't think there is any anti spanish conspiracy going on but I can't shake the idea he's trying to dismiss some of these players who did so well under Rafa last year.... (Mata/Azpi/)

 

I love Jose believe me

Edited September 22, 201312 yr by Sweddy

I've got no reason to believe Jose would answer his critics publicly in the way he did with full explanation if he was just doing it for effect, I also can't see him leaving any player out because Benitez played him, if he did, don't you think he would have done it with a slightly less gifted player or even less of a fans favourite? it doesn't even warrant discussion for me.

 

If Jose doesn't feel Mata is ever going to be the player he wants him to, be it because he wont try to adapt or Jose is asking too much of him defensively then you might be right and Jose might sanction his transfer but if he doesn't fit the vision the manager has for the team and either wont try or can't adjust then its perfectly within the managers rights to let him go and replace him with a player that he trusts can do it.

 

I like Mata but I don't know what his reaction to the possibility of change is and if he is trying, I do hope he is and feel if he wasn't Jose has the balls to come out and say that he's asked certain things of him and he hasn't either been able to adjust or hasn't wanted to.

 

There (imo) is no underlying factor here, the manager gives instructions to players on tactics and systems and those who apply themselves and look good in training or games will get chances. it wouldn't pay the manager to purposefully choose players who are inferior to players he leaves out and he must believe in his ideas as he has a massive reputation on the line as well as a massive income.

Edited September 22, 201312 yr by Chippy

^ hmmm barring winning the league once i wouldnt call it great success in Spain in terms with what he's done elsewhere. But this is another discussion

 

Chippy - you make a fair point however Jose has often played up for the media so I wouldn't read too much into what he's said. Mata may have responded professionally which is no more than i'd suspect from him as he seems an ultimate professional but if things were to carry on the same way (IF) then you can't tell me Mata would be happy by January and wouldn't possibly try and engineer a move away one of which I believe Jose may very well approve. Especially if he's so content with Oscar occupying the no. 10 role. This I think for the season could prove catastrophic.

 

I get the Ivan at RB although it is for all to see that he is sh*te at going forward and although solid at the back we are relying on our full backs for pace and attacking ability. Cesar especially towards the end of last season provided that! So I'm just not sure how 7 or so games into the season we haven't seen Cesar get a chance to show. Although rightly so he will on tuesday so im hoping he can convince him then.

 

Torres is getting chances as you say but to pick Eto'o for three games in a row playing roughly 240 minutes.  This guy is clearly not sharp yet just seems strange to me. Is he that unconvinced with Torres? Probably yes just thinks hes sh*te but i thought surely Eto'o would be eased into the premier league environment and had time to gather his sharpness back. Torres had a good game against Bayern but to be demoted immediately at Everton just seemed strange and then again in the CL. But yeah call me crazy.

 

Like i say i don't think there is any anti spanish conspiracy going on but I can't shake the idea he's trying to dismiss some of these players who did so well under Rafa last year.... (Mata/Azpi/)

 

I love Jose believe me

it might be my imagination but it seems to me that del bosque has something in common with JM!

^ hmmm barring winning the league once i wouldnt call it great success in Spain in terms with what he's done elsewhere. But this is another discussion

 

You are aware that Mourinho spent much of his formative coaching years in Spain at Barca, playing a prominent coaching role in league, cup and European title wins, right?

 

At some stage the trio (Eto'o, Torres, Ba) will have to provide some bite if Chelsea, even bolstered by their talent in midfield, are to maintain a title challenge. "The only way is to work," said Mourinho. "With Samuel it is, for me, understandable. When you are on the top of the world for almost 10 years and then you go to a different reality – we know he went [to Anzhi Makhachkala] for economic reasons – footballistically it is not a challenge for a player who has played all his life for Barcelona, Inter Milan and in the Champions League. I knew his level would go down but, for me, he is a very good player. When he has the ball at his feet it is easy to see the player he is. He is lacking sharpness but that is normal.

 

"Fernando is the opposite situation. Physically he is in a very good moment, he is very strong, sharp and fast. He had a fantastic header that would make a wonderful goal and the goalkeeper made a great save.

"So also a little bit of luck plays a role. I don't think he's short on confidence. I'm happy with Fernando. In the last game [against Basel] I left him out of selection and his reaction was positive: to come on for the last 30 minutes and play hard and seriously. I'm happy with him and he has my trust. He is a good player, a good professional and it was a nice surprise for me the way he works, so I believe in Fernando.

Torres isnt seeing much playing time this season, definitely second choice.

Are we all missing him? Must admit, I kind of am.

At some stage the trio (Eto'o, Torres, Ba) will have to provide some bite if Chelsea, even bolstered by their talent in midfield, are to maintain a title challenge. "The only way is to work," said Mourinho. "With Samuel it is, for me, understandable. When you are on the top of the world for almost 10 years and then you go to a different reality – we know he went [to Anzhi Makhachkala] for economic reasons – footballistically it is not a challenge for a player who has played all his life for Barcelona, Inter Milan and in the Champions League. I knew his level would go down but, for me, he is a very good player. When he has the ball at his feet it is easy to see the player he is. He is lacking sharpness but that is normal.

"Fernando is the opposite situation. Physically he is in a very good moment, he is very strong, sharp and fast. He had a fantastic header that would make a wonderful goal and the goalkeeper made a great save."So also a little bit of luck plays a role. I don't think he's short on confidence. I'm happy with Fernando. In the last game [against Basel] I left him out of selection and his reaction was positive: to come on for the last 30 minutes and play hard and seriously. I'm happy with him and he has my trust. He is a good player, a good professional and it was a nice surprise for me the way he works, so I believe in Fernando.

Footballistically. Is that even a word Jose?

Footballistically. Is that even a word Jose?

 

 

It is now!  

I can't work out why he's not playing Mata. Torres and Cesar makes more sense. Surely it's gotta be more than the poxy reasons Jose has given in his interviews.

To be fair I understand the benching of Mata more than Dave or Torres!   Mata is my favourite player after Lampard but lets be honest, he has been poor this season.  He has started half the matches and been nowhere near his usual quality.  Torres has looked better and Azpiliqueta just completely frozen out.   Jose clearly said it didn't matter what someone had done in the past, he runs a meritocracy.   Mata hasn't merited a starting spot this season in Jose's mind and with the other options available I can't really disagree too much bias aside.

To be fair I understand the benching of Mata more than Dave or Torres!   Mata is my favourite player after Lampard but lets be honest, he has been poor this season.  He has started half the matches and been nowhere near his usual quality.  Torres has looked better and Azpiliqueta just completely frozen out.   Jose clearly said it didn't matter what someone had done in the past, he runs a meritocracy.   Mata hasn't merited a starting spot this season in Jose's mind and with the other options available I can't really disagree too much bias aside.

Since when has 2 out of 7 been half the matches played?

http://www.thesundaytimes.co.uk/sto/sport/article1317164.ece

 

hashtag just saying

Edited September 24, 201312 yr by Sweddy

For the record as well I don't think that Jose is doing anything because of the Spanish link between these all im trying to do is look at it from a different angle

 

but here is a cracking article from the man Guillem Balague that actually brings in all points together and gives a good clear resolution in my eyes

 

 

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1783936-juan-mata-will-be-a-better-player-for-jose-mourinhos-rough-treatment-at-chelsea

Edited September 24, 201312 yr by Sweddy

For the record as well I don't think that Jose is doing anything because of the Spanish link between these all im trying to do is look at it from a different angle

 

but here is a cracking article from the man Guillem Balague that actually brings in all points together and gives a good clear resolution in my eyes

 

 

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1783936-juan-mata-will-be-a-better-player-for-jose-mourinhos-rough-treatment-at-chelsea

 

 

Balague raises some decent arguments on subject I think:

 

The idea that Mourinho’s decision is motivated by personal pique and by non-footballing calculations is too simple. In my opinion, what’s happening to Mata at the moment will, in the long term, be of benefit to both the player and his country. 

 

While many armchair followers of "highlights" football cite him as Chelsea’s best player, in terms of goals and assists, Mourinho is seeing a bigger picture.

 

What Mou is seeing, and saying, is that in Eden Hazard he has a player who tackles more, wins more possession, more aerial battles and more 50-50 balls. All the defensive statistics put Hazard ahead of Mata.

 

Clearly on the offensive Mata was producing the goods last season but if those stats about the defensive contributions are true then clearly the reasoning Mourinho is offering about why Mata at present is not first choice hold weight. 

 

As said previously, if Mata improves the defensive side of his game then he will find himself back in the starting XI and both he and the team will be the better for it. Let's not forget the season is still very much in its infancy at the moment. 

:(

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rrdBUEyNMm8

Edited September 24, 201312 yr by FLYMJ

 

Balague raises some decent arguments on subject I think:

 

The idea that Mourinho’s decision is motivated by personal pique and by non-footballing calculations is too simple. In my opinion, what’s happening to Mata at the moment will, in the long term, be of benefit to both the player and his country. 

 

While many armchair followers of "highlights" football cite him as Chelsea’s best player, in terms of goals and assists, Mourinho is seeing a bigger picture.

 

What Mou is seeing, and saying, is that in Eden Hazard he has a player who tackles more, wins more possession, more aerial battles and more 50-50 balls. All the defensive statistics put Hazard ahead of Mata.

 

Clearly on the offensive Mata was producing the goods last season but if those stats about the defensive contributions are true then clearly the reasoning Mourinho is offering about why Mata at present is not first choice hold weight. 

 

As said previously, if Mata improves the defensive side of his game then he will find himself back in the starting XI and both he and the team will be the better for it. Let's not forget the season is still very much in its infancy at the moment. 

 

and he might get ahead of that barca lot who has been brought up on what JM wants! incidently wasn't JM under sir bobby and van gaal! 

Wow when you look at that video, you again wonder, where it went, i believe he still has it in him, he can do those things, maybe he just forgot how, he still has some pace, still quite tricky, and can finish instinctively, the more i puzzle about the old Torres the more i scratch my head, and vids like that bring it crashing home, thats what we paid £50,000K for...

Fernando is working hard and creating a lot for the team. he deserves to play against Tottenham.

Torres played very well last night but watching him beat up on the little kids again doesn't make me come anymore.

 

Personally I wouldn't have him anywhere near the starting line up for such a massive game as the y*ds, but I would definately give him a game next week against Steaua Bucharest.

I'd start him against Spurs. He impressed against Bayern and never really got a chance after that until yesterday. Even when he came on against Fulham he almost scored. He looks a lot sharper thus far than ever before in a Chelsea shirt, IMO, however that doesn't mean he's going to start destroying defences like he used to. Out of our 3 current strikers, he certainly looks hungrier than Eto'o and Ba based on what we've seen this season.

3 starts and 2 goals for Torres at the moment.

 

I know he's largely been a disappointment since he signed but in my opinion he's looking our best striker at the moment. 

 

I would give him the nod to start against Spurs at the weekend because I think his movement and runs into the box (looking to get on the end of things not drifting wide) is looking really good.. 

Eto why?   when we already had  Torres.

 

William why?  when we already had  Moses.

Willian? - I have no idea.  Eto'o? - possibly because a very vocal section of the support, the media and this forum have spent three years (almost) saying that having Torres was not good enough.