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Torres - The "Groundhog Day" Thread


abramovich
Eton Blue at the Chelsea Megastore

Torres: stay or go?  

226 members have voted

  1. 1. Torres: stay or go?

    • Stay
      34
    • Go
      192


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^ It's the one who gets in scoring positions, is what Sydney is saying. Sure, Torres has 2 in 3 starts, but he's also made sub appearances, and one of those goals was against Swindon, so let's not pretend his record somehow demands he gets a first team shot. Eto'o just plays the position better for me, which isn't hard, and over a substantial period not only would we see an upturn in performances but the goals will come. What I find hard to understand Bluehatter is that after 1 or 2 games of seeing Eto'o play, you were demanding Torres be brought back in the match threads. You see, I don't understand that, firstly because you're too quick to jump on someone's back just because they don't score goals and secondly, because, despite appalling runs stretching well over two games (and I mean well over), you've never asked that Torres be dropped. Strange that.

 

Edit: Intended for Bluehatter, obviously.

Edited by Davey Baby
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Where did I say that?

Strikers that take lots of shots score lots of goals. That's common sense.

Scoring a goal in your previous game doesn't really help predict whether you'll have a good performance next time out, but it's easy to demonstrate that a striker who is consistently taking lots of shots- implying they are good at creating scoring opportunities for themselves- tends to score more goals.

You can look at any top goalscorer around the world and see they average over 3.5 shots per game. Torres, both now and through his Chelsea career, has struggled to average 2. Sure, he hit 3 against the might of Swindon Town, but forgive me for being a little cautious before declaring his 13, 467th comeback.

Your post implied that your reasoning for starting the man who has had 3 average games since he came here to the man who in his last 2 starts has scored 2 and one of them against the best team in europe was because one took 1 more shot per game than the other.  

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^ It's the one who gets in scoring positions, is what Sydney is saying. Sure, Torres has 2 in 3 starts, but he's also made sub appearances, and one of those goals was against Swindon, so let's not pretend his record somehow demands he gets a first team shot. Eto'o just plays the position better for me, which isn't hard, and over a substantial period not only would we see an upturn in performances but the goals will come. What I find hard to understand Bluehatter is that after 1 or 2 games of seeing Eto'o play, you were demanding Torres be brought back in the match threads. You see, I don't understand that, firstly because you're too quick to jump on someone's back just because they don't score goals and secondly, because, despite appalling runs stretching well over two games (and I mean well over), you've never asked that Torres be dropped. Strange that.

 

Edit: Intended for Bluehatter, obviously.

I'm not demanding torres to be brought back in at all and I'm certainly not getting on eto's back after 3 games. I'm simply saying that right now I think torres looks sharper and looks the more likely to contribute to the team whether that be through goals or assists. I felt eto had a good start v everton but missed 1 or 2 guilt edged chances that ended up costing us 3 points. Against basel I only saw the 2nd half but I was disappointed if I'm honest. Yer he got little service but what I like about torres is that even when he isn't getting service he will look to drop deeper and help out defensively and try to link up with the midfield. 

 

I'd personally start torres on saturday but I think jose will go with eto 

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I didn't want to be accused of trying to hide Eto'o's poor game against Basel. If we look at the league alone, the stats are even more damning for Torres.

Are they? Eto- 0 goals      Torres- 0 goals                 Ba- 0 goals

 

Or by damning do you mean eto averages 1 more shot per game?

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I'm not demanding torres to be brought back in at all and I'm certainly not getting on eto's back after 3 games. I'm simply saying that right now I think torres looks sharper and looks the more likely to contribute to the team whether that be through goals or assists. I felt eto had a good start v everton but missed 1 or 2 guilt edged chances that ended up costing us 3 points. Against basel I only saw the 2nd half but I was disappointed if I'm honest. Yer he got little service but what I like about torres is that even when he isn't getting service he will look to drop deeper and help out defensively and try to link up with the midfield. 

 

I'd personally start torres on saturday but I think jose will go with eto 

 

I trust Jose on this one. He's brought Eto'o straight into the side, which tells us a lot. He hasn't tried to ease Eto'o in, which tells us a lot. Eto'o is 32 and has played in Russia for 2 years, but I think Jose feels his hands are tied. There is no possible way he can rely on Torres and we should all know this by now. If precedent is anything to go by, he will rotate, using Eto'o in the games that matter, and bringing Torres on as a second-half sub when Eto'o starts, once the opposition (and Eto'o) are tired. I think Eto'o will be our main striker this season and I think it may actually suit Torres, as it looks to be suiting him now. Torres may be surprised Jose brought Eto'o straight in and it may have motivated him. Jose's told him all he needs to know. As a second-half sub we could do worse than Torres. Lukaku would be a better option but he's gone on loan.

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Torres or Ba vs the y*ds. Etoo has been piss poor. nvm goals or shots on net..has etoo even beaten 1 player in a one on one yet? does he link up with fhe midfield or create for others? he gets tossed aside with ease in any shoulder to shoulder challenge. if I'm being honest I wouldn't even have him on the bench atm. if etoo starts I fear we may lose to match.

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Torres is the in-form striker?

Can we keep things in perspective?

 

Swindon are League One, and he's been a flat track bully since he's joined us, it's never meant much on the big stage.

 

Against Fulham he had fresh legs and they were knackered.

 

He played well in those games but please, come on people, Jose knows what he's doing, and Eto'o's in the side for a reason, he's just a much better striker, their movement is miles apart.

 

Eto'o will get better as well, as we see more of him.

 

We've been watching Torres for three years.

 

However the real point is this .. if there is an improvement in Nando, Jose gets lots of credit, his methods are working, he should keep employing them.

 

Torres IS in better form than Eto - there can be no argument. It may have only been Swindon the other night (yet funny how people were willing to overlook that fact when bigging up Essien's performance) but he was easily the best attacking player and was lively throughout the match. That on the back of other decent performances including the game against Munich.

 

As long as we don't lose agsinst Sp*rs I really don't care who plays up top but I honestly feel we have a better chance of getting a result if it is Torres and I admit that's not something I would have been saying much over the last couple of years. Of course given the choice, I would rather have a Falcao, or Suarez or Aguerro but Torres has improved, he IS looking better. Shame that some folk have already written him off and seem reluctant to change their view.

Edited by Nibs
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Torres IS in better form than Eto - there can be no argument. It may have only been Swindon the other night (yet funny how people were willing to overlook that fact when bigging up Essien's performance) but he was easily the best attacking player and was lively throughout the match. That on the back of other decent performances including the game against Munich.

 

As long as we don't lose agsinst Sp*rs I really don't care who plays up top but I honestly feel we have a better chance of getting a result if it is Torres and I admit that's not something I would have been saying much over the last couple of years. Of course given the choice, I would rather have a Falcao, or Suarez or Aguerro but Torres has improved, he IS looking better. Shame that some folk have already written him off and seem reluctant to change their view.

 

 

Whoa there Nibsy! A whole world of difference I think. Essien was a player, a world class player, a wonderful servant for us, who we all thought had become a shadow of the player he once was due to several serious injuries and would probably never kick a ball for Chelsea again. Some of us who watched him perform for Real Madrid last season regained a bit of hope that some of the physical presence and power might still be there. His performance the other night, and over the 90 minutes he was the most influential player in all aspects of the game, gives me further hope that if he stays injury free he could still be a invaluable member of the squad. Nothing more.

 

As for people writing Torres off, can you really blame them? How many times has he done this before? A couple of good performances, one of them against a much weaker side in a low grade cup competition, and some people are yet again saying he should be a nailed on starter for a truly huge EPL game against our biggest rivals. Unfortunately, past experience tells us how that usually ends up.

 

How often do some people need to stand on the end of a rake before they learn it is going to smack them in the face?

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I know what you're saying Just but I can't see any difference to be honest.

 

Both Essien and Torres were world class and arguably both the top in their posistions when they were at their peak. Both have declined due to major injuries and whatever other factors and are now struggling to be anything like the player they were. But when they do show signs of getting back their mojo, BOTH deserve to be recognised, whether it turns out to be a false dawn or not.

 

What isn't in question is if we had the Essien & Torres from around 2006/7 we would be unstopable right now.

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Torres hit rhythm against Swindon and looks sharper than Eto'o for sure. Sadly Eto'o looks out of it to me, age and lack of competitive games may have reaped there toll on him. For that reason Torres starts against Spuds all day long for me and I would be surprised if Mourinho doesn't give him the start. Also it will be a massive confidence boost for the lad.

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Nibs, not sure why you brought Essien into the conversation. Nobody's asked that he play against Tottenham.

 

He and Torres played well against Swindon. Unfortunately for Essien, Yaya was even more dominant for City against Utd, and unfortunately for Torres, we've seen him play well against minnows many times. It's the other games he has trouble in, remember?

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Torres performs well when he is afforded plenty of space.  He gets that in Europe where teams tend to attack us, he got it against Bayern who only attacked us, and he got it against Swindon because they're a team from league 1 with an average age of 23.  He won't get space against Spurs (unless AVB loses it and plays his stupid high line, then by all means send in Fernando).  Eto'o, who has managed to get into shooting positions consistently against premier league teams who afford him little space, is our safest bet for Spurs IMO.

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Nibs, mate, Torres wouldn't have got a game for us around 2006/7. We had Drogba. A far, far more complete player than Torres has ever been.

 

I would probably agree that Drogba was the more complete player however Torres goal scoring returns around 2007 were insanely good (I believe over his first 3 years at Liverpool his goals/game ratio is second to no other striker in the league) so  to say he wouldn't have got a game for us is pretty ridiculous.

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Nibs, not sure why you brought Essien into the conversation. Nobody's asked that he play against Tottenham.

 

He and Torres played well against Swindon. Unfortunately for Essien, Yaya was even more dominant for City against Utd, and unfortunately for Torres, we've seen him play well against minnows many times. It's the other games he has trouble in, remember?

 

I brought Essien into it 'cos I wanted to. Alright?!!! I have seen one or two suggest that he might play a part if Ramires is injured, but that wasn't my point.

 

Let's face it, we aren't spoilt for options striker wise at present. Torres wouldn't have been my choice for our main striker going into this season but then again, signing Eto would have been even further down my list. The forum is clearly divided into those who think Eto is gonna shake off the rust and suddenly discover some kind of goal scoring form ('cos his movement has been good even though that has still produced zilch in the way of goals) and those who have seen Torres upturn end of last season and beginning of this and believe (albeit niavely) it could well be the second coming. 

 

Maybe Mourinho will start BOTH against Sp*rs and they'll bag a brace each?!!

Edited by Nibs
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I brought Essien into it 'cos I wanted to. Alright?!!! I have seen one or two suggest that he might play a part if Ramires is injured, but that wasn't my point.

 

Let's face it, we aren't spoilt for options striker wise at present. Torres wouldn't have been my choice for our main striker going into this season but then again, signing Eto would have been even further down my list. The forum is clearly divided into those who think Eto is gonna shake off the rust and suddenly discover some kind of goal scoring form ('cos his movement has been good even though that has still produced zilch in the way of goals) and those who have seen Torres upturn end of last season and beginning of this and believe (albeit niavely) it could well be the second coming. 

 

Maybe Mourinho will start BOTH against Sp*rs and they'll bag a brace each?!!

 

I gave Torres a full year of understanding before giving up on him.  If you go back far enough in this thread you'll find me there defending him with the same old excuses.  I even starting to believe some of the rubbish like Drogba was holding him back, or our midfield couldn't create goals, or we play too slowly, or the grass at the Bridge isn't the right length, or that he'd have no problem scoring if it wasn't for those pesky defenders.  But the fact is he failed to produce one patch of good form no matter how many opportunities and concessions our team made for him.

 

So I held my hands up and conceded the fact that he'd just lost it.  Many, many false dawns, usually against weak opposition - but he never managed to find consistency.  I'll continue to credit his odd good performance, but I'm not prepared to bet on that horse again.  Eto'o has only had a few games and he has been doing all the right things.  If he continues to do so, he will get the goals.  Either way, I'm more inclined to give him the same sort of understanding I gave Torres in the beginning because he surely deserves at least the same chance.  I don't yet know what Eto'o can do for us.  But I do know what Torres offers, and it has never been enough.   

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Torres performs well when he is afforded plenty of space.  He gets that in Europe where teams tend to attack us, he got it against Bayern who only attacked us, and he got it against Swindon because they're a team from league 1 with an average age of 23.  He won't get space against Spurs (unless AVB loses it and plays his stupid high line, then by all means send in Fernando).  Eto'o, who has managed to get into shooting positions consistently against premier league teams who afford him little space, is our safest bet for Spurs IMO.

Replace the name "Torres" with "Veron" and its history repeating.

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I brought Essien into it 'cos I wanted to. Alright?!!! I have seen one or two suggest that he might play a part if Ramires is injured, but that wasn't my point.

 

Let's face it, we aren't spoilt for options striker wise at present. Torres wouldn't have been my choice for our main striker going into this season but then again, signing Eto would have been even further down my list. The forum is clearly divided into those who think Eto is gonna shake off the rust and suddenly discover some kind of goal scoring form ('cos his movement has been good even though that has still produced zilch in the way of goals) and those who have seen Torres upturn end of last season and beginning of this and believe (albeit niavely) it could well be the second coming. 

 

Maybe Mourinho will start BOTH against Sp*rs and they'll bag a brace each?!!

I'm kind of in both camps. What I have seen of Eto so far has been encouraging and by encouraging I mean the improvement from the 1st game untill now, his understanding of his team mates, seems to be improving quickly, always a good sign and despite not notching a goal yet he's got in to good positions on a number of occasions just lacking the finish. For me what you want to see from a striker is the movement and understanding of positioning and team mates intentions. There are other areas that matter like brining the team in to play and holding the ball up but if we agree that they have to get goals then I want to see my forward beating of side traps, hitting the near post (which with Willian in the team every one should be doing straight after the step over) and having the confidence to be single minded and go for goal.

Eto has shown this IMO, the only thing is, Torres for almost the first time in 3 years has also shown it. Spuds won't park the bus, they play with big strong ball winning mid fielders but they will come at us, chances will open up. I'd expect either striker that playes to be giving the deffenders a torrid time

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It's a hard choice, I really would like Eto'o to get a run of games, however, after playing his heart out in midweek Torres has shown that he really wants to play, yes, it may have been against Swindon, but you could just tell that he tried his hardest out there and wanted to prove a point and, to be fair, there's not much else Torres could have done, he was man of the match, got a goal and an assist. I would personally start Torres.

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I would probably agree that Drogba was the more complete player however Torres goal scoring returns around 2007 were insanely good (I believe over his first 3 years at Liverpool his goals/game ratio is second to no other striker in the league) so  to say he wouldn't have got a game for us is pretty ridiculous.

 

True, for his first three seasons at Liverpool I felt he was the most natural finisher in the EPL. He was certainly a more prolific finisher than Drogba in that period except for 09/10 when Didier had the better goal ratio. But Drogba was superior in nearly all other facets of the game; hold-up play, aerial ability, defensive work etc As I said, unarguably the more complete, rounded player and for that reason I believe Drogs would have been first choice for most managers. 

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It's a hard choice, I really would like Eto'o to get a run of games, however, after playing his heart out in midweek Torres has shown that he really wants to play, yes, it may have been against Swindon, but you could just tell that he tried his hardest out there and wanted to prove a point and, to be fair, there's not much else Torres could have done, he was man of the match, got a goal and an assist. I would personally start Torres.

 

I would rather stick with Eto'o, i'm not ready for Torres to return based on one performance. When he get's his chance in the first team again i would rather it be for a run of very good games for the club, not just a cup game against Swindon.

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