Jump to content

Torres - The "Groundhog Day" Thread


abramovich
Eton Blue at the Chelsea Megastore

Torres: stay or go?  

226 members have voted

  1. 1. Torres: stay or go?

    • Stay
      34
    • Go
      192


Recommended Posts



I find it funny and very dramatic that it's labelled 'scratch' and it fits nicely into a media/FA agenda.

It looked like ihe attempted to grab his cheek, more of a 'brush' really.

Let's face it, any bloke getting his nails into anyone's skin is hardly going to hurt is it. You would feel more pain from kitten claws!

Well yeah, but this is Torres. He probably files his and has manicures.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I do wonder if the press would be calling for Vertonghen's head if the roles were reversed? 

 

In the same way that if it had been Suarez that scored with his hand instead of Sturridge yesterday, he would be getting absolutely obliterated on the back pages.

 

 

I find it funny and very dramatic that it's labelled 'scratch' and it fits nicely into a media/FA agenda.

It looked like ihe attempted to grab his cheek, more of a 'brush' really.

Let's face it, any bloke getting his nails into anyone's skin is hardly going to hurt is it. You would feel more pain from kitten claws!

 

I'd imagine Fernando's nails are manicured to perfection, hence why Vertonghen didn't start rolling around afterwards. He loved it.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

But then we can move the statistics on again and ask how many of Eto'os shots have been on target compared to Torres.

 

TBH statistics are a load of old fanny, I'll go with what I'm watching, so far in games played this season Torres has looked the best of the 3 available.

 

Why is that relevant? If you've played or watched the game at any level then you know that shots on target can be misleading; plenty of good opportunities go over the bar or strike the post.  I have absolutely no doubt that Torres is a more clinical finisher than Eto'o based on previous history but that means squat if your striker is not even getting himself in good positions to take a shot. I am simply saying that a shot = a goalscoring chance. Eto'o, in a equal number of minutes but less games manager to amass more than Torres has done all season. It's more of the same from Torres, who continues to do everything but the job that we need him to do.

 

My opinion about Torres' performance against Tottenham will no doubt be wildly unpopular but it's grounded in fact and that is that he failed to get in to goalscoring positions, yet again. I thought he did great really getting stuck into defenders and showed some real desire for half an hour, but if that's all we need from our forwards then we should've brought in Grant Holt instead of Eto'o. The harsh reality is that his great desire was channelled everywhere but into getting in the goalscoring positions- Torres amassed a single shot on target. The video of his best moments against Spurs (posted earlier) was a nice summary for exactly the wrong reasons as his best touches were again deep or out wide and nowhere near the box where you'd expect a striker to be. No doubt that someone will happily inform me that I am ignorant and mistaken as Torres is not a striker but a deep-lying wide-forward trequartista in the style of some obscure Hungarian.

 

SP, statistics are not some magical, shapeshifting creature. They are simply a neutral person (in this case, the media) counting the things they see and they are recorded down so to avoid the perils of selective memory. What we "see" is merely the accumulation of all those different statistics playing out in front of us. You can, if you like, refuse to be objective and rely on your own memory, but I can't see that as anything more than a stubborn refusal to enter meaningful discussion. Statistics are only there to quantify objectively what people see.

Link to comment
Share on other sites



Why is that relevant? If you've played or watched the game at any level then you know that shots on target can be misleading; plenty of good opportunities go over the bar or strike the post.  I have absolutely no doubt that Torres is a more clinical finisher than Eto'o based on previous history but that means squat if your striker is not even getting himself in good positions to take a shot. I am simply saying that a shot = a goalscoring chance. Eto'o, in a equal number of minutes but less games manager to amass more than Torres has done all season. It's more of the same from Torres, who continues to do everything but the job that we need him to do.

 

My opinion about Torres' performance against Tottenham will no doubt be wildly unpopular but it's grounded in fact and that is that he failed to get in to goalscoring positions, yet again. I thought he did great really getting stuck into defenders and showed some real desire for half an hour, but if that's all we need from our forwards then we should've brought in Grant Holt instead of Eto'o. The harsh reality is that his great desire was channelled everywhere but into getting in the goalscoring positions- Torres amassed a single shot on target. The video of his best moments against Spurs (posted earlier) was a nice summary for exactly the wrong reasons as his best touches were again deep or out wide and nowhere near the box where you'd expect a striker to be. No doubt that someone will happily inform me that I am ignorant and mistaken as Torres is not a striker but a deep-lying wide-forward trequartista in the style of some obscure Hungarian.

 

4 starts and 2 goals, the magical 1 in 2 that most strikers covert.

 

The guy created all of our best goal scoring opportunities from open play against Totenham.

 

Scored one and assisted the other against Swindon.

 

Scored against Bayern Munich. 

 

In each of his last three starts he has had a significant impact on our attack including having a hand in 3 goals.

 

How is that not doing the job that he is required to do? 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Why is that relevant? If you've played or watched the game at any level then you know that shots on target can be misleading; plenty of good opportunities go over the bar or strike the post.  I have absolutely no doubt that Torres is a more clinical finisher than Eto'o based on previous history but that means squat if your striker is not even getting himself in good positions to take a shot. I am simply saying that a shot = a goalscoring chance. Eto'o, in a equal number of minutes but less games manager to amass more than Torres has done all season. It's more of the same from Torres, who continues to do everything but the job that we need him to do.

 

My opinion about Torres' performance against Tottenham will no doubt be wildly unpopular but it's grounded in fact and that is that he failed to get in to goalscoring positions, yet again. I thought he did great really getting stuck into defenders and showed some real desire for half an hour, but if that's all we need from our forwards then we should've brought in Grant Holt instead of Eto'o. The harsh reality is that his great desire was channelled everywhere but into getting in the goalscoring positions- Torres amassed a single shot on target. The video of his best moments against Spurs (posted earlier) was a nice summary for exactly the wrong reasons as his best touches were again deep or out wide and nowhere near the box where you'd expect a striker to be. No doubt that someone will happily inform me that I am ignorant and mistaken as Torres is not a striker but a deep-lying wide-forward trequartista in the style of some obscure Hungarian.

 

SP, statistics are not some magical, shapeshifting creature. They are simply a neutral person (in this case, the media) counting the things they see and they are recorded down so to avoid the perils of selective memory. What we "see" is merely the accumulation of all those different statistics playing out in front of us. You can, if you like, refuse to be objective and rely on your own memory, but I can't see that as anything more than a stubborn refusal to enter meaningful discussion. Statistics are only there to quantify objectively what people see.

 

Anyone can twist a statistic to their own ends though, that's why I ignore them. Also the amount of percentages, statistics and figures bandied about today have started to detract from the basis of the game, which even after all those stats are thrown out, is to score more goals than the other team.

 

Here are the pointless stats:

 

Possesion % = pointless unless you score you can have the ball for 99% if the other team score with their 1% they win.

 

kilometres covered = pointless, if I run around the perimiter of the pitch during the game I would run further than those on it but would have no impact on the game, someone who has run 8.9 km over a game might have no impact compared to a player who has run 1 km during the game.

 

Shots = pointless, goals count shots don't, look at the Everton game, we had loads of shots, they didn't, they won.

 

Blocks, tackles etc = pointless, players have jobs to do, thats why they get paid, we all know what players make tackles, we also know which ones make tackles that matter.

 

As you say this is a way of looking at dispasionately, I prefer to judge things as I see them, not by looking at the stats a player has.

Edited by shedpensioner
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Anyone can twist a statistic to their own ends though, that's why I ignore them. Also the amount of percentages, statistics and figures bandied about today have started to detract from the basis of the game, which even after all those stats are thrown out, is to score more goals than the other team.

 

Here are the pointless stats:

 

Possesion % = pointless unless you score you can have the ball for 99% if the other team score with their 1% they win.

 

kilometres covered = pointless, if I run around the perimiter of the pitch during the game I would run further than those on it but would have no impact on the game, someone who has run 8.9 km over a game might have no impact compared to a player who has run 1 km during the game.

 

Shots = pointless, goals count shots don't, look at the Everton game, we had loads of shots, they didn't, they won.

 

Blocks, tackles etc = pointless, players have jobs to do, thats why they get paid, we all know what players make tackles, we also know which ones make tackles that matter.

 

As you say this is a way of looking at dispasionately, I prefer to judge things as I see them, not by looking at the stats a player has.

 

Years ago stats weren't even published, whether they were even kept by training staff and the coaches who knows.  I think stats began creeping into the game for several reasons, 1st the Agent, that way with a handful of stats makes his player look better than what he really is so therefore his player suddenly becomes more valuable when in reality he may be mediocre, 2nd for coaching and tactical reasons as the game has progressed, chances created etc and thirdly no doubt to tweak the North American interest where all sports rely heavily on stats especially baseball, 'football' and NHL Hockey to name a few, which goes hand in hand with the gambling side of all sports nowadays its seems. Statistics allow the reader the draw conclusions based on numbers of how the game played out and also allow managers / coaches to see where the team can improve, however as you rightly said, a team can have 99% possession and still lose, the most telling stat is the end result. Nothing else matters to us fans other than whether we win or lose the rest is bullsh*t for the purists and the gamblers..IMO

Link to comment
Share on other sites



Anyone can twist a statistic to their own ends though, that's why I ignore them. Also the amount of percentages, statistics and figures bandied about today have started to detract from the basis of the game, which even after all those stats are thrown out, is to score more goals than the other team.

 

Here are the pointless stats:

 

Possesion % = pointless unless you score you can have the ball for 99% if the other team score with their 1% they win.

 

kilometres covered = pointless, if I run around the perimiter of the pitch during the game I would run further than those on it but would have no impact on the game, someone who has run 8.9 km over a game might have no impact compared to a player who has run 1 km during the game.

 

Shots = pointless, goals count shots don't, look at the Everton game, we had loads of shots, they didn't, they won.

 

Blocks, tackles etc = pointless, players have jobs to do, thats why they get paid, we all know what players make tackles, we also know which ones make tackles that matter.

 

As you say this is a way of looking at dispasionately, I prefer to judge things as I see them, not by looking at the stats a player has.

 

Good post. All I would add is that football stats are boring; particularly the one about how often Spurs have beaten CFC...

 

There's a related issue of the unquantifiable effect a player can have on his team mates in terms of mood, energy, etc. What is a player like - for example - JT worth in terms of morale and commitment? You can't quantify that worth or draw up stats but the impact is there.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Stats seem to become fashionable around the time Sky started americanising our viewing of football, with all sorts of strange and wonderful ideas. Many websites and bloggers have jumped on this and now produce stats that are almost meaningless at times. The one I like is this distance covered thing, maybe if they were in the right bloody place more often they wouldnt need to cover as much ground. Ok, I`m taking the piss a bit but thats how easily you can read a stat to mean anything you want.

Link to comment
Share on other sites



Why is that relevant? If you've played or watched the game at any level then you know that shots on target can be misleading; plenty of good opportunities go over the bar or strike the post.  I have absolutely no doubt that Torres is a more clinical finisher than Eto'o based on previous history but that means squat if your striker is not even getting himself in good positions to take a shot. I am simply saying that a shot = a goalscoring chance. Eto'o, in a equal number of minutes but less games manager to amass more than Torres has done all season. It's more of the same from Torres, who continues to do everything but the job that we need him to do.

 

My opinion about Torres' performance against Tottenham will no doubt be wildly unpopular but it's grounded in fact and that is that he failed to get in to goalscoring positions, yet again. I thought he did great really getting stuck into defenders and showed some real desire for half an hour, but if that's all we need from our forwards then we should've brought in Grant Holt instead of Eto'o. The harsh reality is that his great desire was channelled everywhere but into getting in the goalscoring positions- Torres amassed a single shot on target. The video of his best moments against Spurs (posted earlier) was a nice summary for exactly the wrong reasons as his best touches were again deep or out wide and nowhere near the box where you'd expect a striker to be. No doubt that someone will happily inform me that I am ignorant and mistaken as Torres is not a striker but a deep-lying wide-forward trequartista in the style of some obscure Hungarian.

 

SP, statistics are not some magical, shapeshifting creature. They are simply a neutral person (in this case, the media) counting the things they see and they are recorded down so to avoid the perils of selective memory. What we "see" is merely the accumulation of all those different statistics playing out in front of us. You can, if you like, refuse to be objective and rely on your own memory, but I can't see that as anything more than a stubborn refusal to enter meaningful discussion. Statistics are only there to quantify objectively what people see.

Are you conveniently forgetting that the best bit of play torres did on saturday was when he picked up the ball and put dawson on his arse and manged to create a one on one for himself? Your stats way of looking at football is a load of tosh. No doubt your one of the people who feel if a team has more possession they deserve to win the game.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

someone who has run 8.9 km over a game might have no impact compared to a player who has run 1 km during the game.

 

That's what I keep telling my teammates on Monday nights.

 

They tell me I don't run and I'm lazy.

 

I tell them I'm letting the ball do the work.

 

They tell me I'm sh*t with the ball.

 

It leads to a few arguments.

Link to comment
Share on other sites







http://www.chelseafc.com/news-article/article/3477418/title/fa-statement-on-torres

 

Edit: Reading that, it seems the FA aren't permitted by their own rules to retrospectively review the incident, which I don't understand.

 

Maybe someone can shed some light on it.

 

Anyway, I feel we've got lucky, for once.

 

Hopefully Torres heeds his lesson and takes full advantage ..

Edited by Davey Baby
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Not quite sure how this has happened but will take it all day long!

 

One of the match officials saw the coming together of the two players, albeit not in its entirety.
 
'In these particular circumstances, in line with The FA's policy on when retrospective action may be taken, reviewed this summer by the game's stakeholders (the Premier League, the Football League, the Professional Footballers' Association, the League Managers' Association, Professional Game Match Officials Limited and the National Game), no action may be taken.'
 
 
My interpretation is that last part is key "no action may be taken".
 
They might have wanted to take further action but due to their own rules because a official saw the incident they can not issue retrospective action.
 
Basically Torres is a very lucky boy. 
 
Big boost for us though. 
Link to comment
Share on other sites


Happy with the result. Torres can count himself extremely lucky.

The FA never cease to amaze me. Their statement is a bit bizarre. They obviously wanted to take action and are clearly annoyed.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

From the start of the 2013-14 campaign, where the referee’s view of an incident has been completely obstructed and the assistant referees or fourth official are not in a position such that they could be expected to judge the challenge, based on factors such as their distance from or line of sight to an incident, The FA will be able to take retrospective action.

 

[...]

Prior to this change, which was ratified by The Football Regulatory Authority, The FA was only able to take retrospective action when none of the match officials had seen the ‘coming together’ or when the incident was truly exceptional, for example, in the case of Ben Thatcher's challenge on Pedro Mendes.

 

 

 

My understanding of that is 'in situations where it is clear the ref has no idea what he is doing, we reserve the right to make it up as we go along', whereas previously it was 'in situations where we get a particularly large amount of hassle because of a decision, we reserve the right to backtrack on it'.

Link to comment
Share on other sites



Please sign in to comment

You will be able to leave a comment after signing in



Sign In Now
  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...
Please Sign In

Well, this is awkward!

Happy Sunny Days GIF by Atlassian

The Shed End Forum relies on revenue to pay for hosting and upgrades. While we try to keep adverts as unobtrusive as possible, we need to show these to make sure we can stay online and continue to keep the forum running. Over the years costs have become very high.

Could you please allow adverts on this domain by switching it off and whitelisting the website? Some of the advert banners can actually be closed to avoid interference with your experience on The Shed End.

If you don't want to view any adverts while logged in and using your account, consider using the Ad-Free Subscription which is renewable every year. To buy a subscription, log in to your account and click the link under the Newbies forum on the home page.

Cheers now!

Sure, let me in!