Jose's approach has also worked against every single large domestic rival we've faced in the league since his return, resulting in him not having lost a single game.

 

 

A very fair point. But they're all sh*t compared to the top teams in Europe. The team we lost to were dismantled by Barcelona. 

 

To say that approach was responsible for our loss against PSG is plainly wrong, twice we were within 5 minutes of winning and poor defending from corners lost us the game. The tactics were clearly successful and Jose cannot be held accountable for poor marking from set pieces, and if he is to be held accountable for it - it is clearly an unrelated matter to his overall match tactics.

 

You're right that the tactics worked which is why we didn't get knocked out by a team reduced to 10 men. 

 

Or we were actually pretty bereft of ideas against a team who got their tactics spot on despite being hamstrung by Ibra's sending off. I tend to think it was the latter but I'll understand if people think that the tactics on that day were successful and Jose got what he wanted*

 

*corners don't come under tactics. 

Not sure if serious. there is no way we're gonna ever win CL with Matic-Fabregas pivot and Oscar playing 10. We look toothless going forward if Hazards not on song.

Not sure if serious? Really? This 11 is better than the side that won us the champions league. I'm not sure if your serious if you honestly believe only real, barca, and bayern are capable of winning the champions league.

Juve and atletico have both reached the final in the last 2 seasons with a team that could argued is weaker than our first 11.

Yes it would be nice to have another world class player on the right, and as blue Daze said, it would be nice to go out and try and win some of these big games, but there's more than one way to skin a cat.

I very much doubt we will be able to have a team that would match barca and real on paper, so like it or not, our best chance of beating these teams is tactically, and riding our luck.

A very fair point. But they're all sh*t compared to the top teams in Europe. The team we lost to were dismantled by Barcelona. 

 

 

You're right that the tactics worked which is why we didn't get knocked out by a team reduced to 10 men. 

 

Or we were actually pretty bereft of ideas against a team who got their tactics spot on despite being hamstrung by Ibra's sending off. I tend to think it was the latter but I'll understand if people think that the tactics on that day were successful and Jose got what he wanted*

 

*corners don't come under tactics. 

 

And if we, one of the best teams in world football at defending set pieces, had prevented one or both of those PSG goals and thereby won the game, would you be lauding Jose's tactics as the reason for us winning? Or does that only work one way?

And if we, one of the best teams in world football at defending set pieces, had prevented one or both of those PSG goals and thereby won the game, would you be lauding Jose's tactics as the reason for us winning? Or does that only work one way?

 

Are you asking that if Jose's tactics had had a different outcome, would I still be saying that he got them wrong? Possibly not. 

 

But I think it's best to work with what happened rather than hypotheticals.

 

I think Jose's tactics will always beat the vast majority of teams. I think he has the personnel and tactical nous to beat teams by making the fewest mistakes and forcing your opponent to make them (something I think he's said a few times). 

 

But I also think there are certain teams that doesn't work against as consistently. I think there are certain teams who will have a higher percentage of beating us and I think that's a risk you always run when you essentially give up the initiative in a game.

 

Put it like this - Floyd Mayweather is arguably the greatest defensive boxer of all time. He plays the percentages, giving his opponent the onus and looking to win on the counter (broadly speaking). He's unbeaten. But there's always the chance of a knockout blow if you make even the slightest mistake.

 

We did that against PSG twice and we also did it against Atletico when one mistake from Hazard in missing his defensive duties led to them getting a crucial goal. You have to be faultless like we were against Liverpool last season but you're always subject to one error costing you (like Man United or Man City away this season when one defensive error cost us a win in both).

 

So you can absolutely win the CL by doing that as Jose did and as we did in 2012, but I think you have a better chance if you look to be the best team and win each game as Barca do and if they win their 3rd CL title in recent times tonight then there's a very good argument that they're right.

Edited June 6, 201511 yr by Blue Daze

I think you only have a better chance in looking to be the best team - if you are the best team. See Arsenal on how this plan regularly and hilariously backfires in the absence of this pre-condition.

 

I'd say we and PSG are probably fairly evenly matched and so in that instance, as you pointed out, Jose went with the make less mistakes option which, as you also pointed you, usually works. Jose in what i'm sure was lengthy preparation for the game expected to be playing against a team with great talent around the field that would attempt to dominate the game. Their two glaring weaknesses were; a) David Luiz's tendency to make mistakes and; b) that PSG rarely encounter a team with any attacking threat in their domestic league. Again, this shows that the pragmatic approach was odds on the most intelligent one.

 

What Jose had no way of foreseeing was that PSG would be reduced to 10 men so early on in the game and therefore changing the balance of the play. Having spent a week preparing the team to play a certain way he was faced with two options;

 

1) Continue with the approach that he'd prepared for all week - still very likely to be successful, team was familiar with it, continue to minimize risk.

 

or

 

2) Abandon the tactical preparation, completely change the game plan, hand PSG the ability to launch counter attacks with Cavani and Lavezzi against a CB pairing entirely devoid of pace, increase the risk with little to no benefit.

 

So Jose stuck with his plan which, i reiterate, was twice 5 minutes away from being successful if not for individual lapses of concentration from set pieces, something very rare particularly given that John Terry was at fault for one of them, usually the most reliable aerial defender in world football. As you say you don't like dealing in hypotheticals (even when that hypothetical is us being able to defend against 10 men at home against a team missing their top scorer for 5 minutes, just once out of two opportunities). So i'm not sure I can go along with the hypothetical that Jose abandoning his tactics and preparation would have led to a more favorable result.

 

Finally, in reference to the Barcelona team. Yes i'm sure if we had a strike force of Messi - Suarez - Neymar, supplemented by Iniesta, Xavi and Rakitic, that we too would adopt a more possession based attacking game. If you think Jose wouldn't adopt such tactics with a team of such quality, see his Real Madrid team of 2013 that set the record for La Liga goals scored in a season by 14 goals.

I think you only have a better chance in looking to be the best team - if you are the best team. See Arsenal on how this plan regularly and hilariously backfires in the absence of this pre-condition.

 

I'd say we and PSG are probably fairly evenly matched and so in that instance, as you pointed out, Jose went with the make less mistakes option which, as you also pointed you, usually works. Jose in what i'm sure was lengthy preparation for the game expected to be playing against a team with great talent around the field that would attempt to dominate the game. Their two glaring weaknesses were; a) David Luiz's tendency to make mistakes and; b) that PSG rarely encounter a team with any attacking threat in their domestic league. Again, this shows that the pragmatic approach was odds on the most intelligent one.

 

What Jose had no way of foreseeing was that PSG would be reduced to 10 men so early on in the game and therefore changing the balance of the play. Having spent a week preparing the team to play a certain way he was faced with two options;

 

 

Absolutely agree with this. Going down to 10 men was probably a hinderance to us because Jose sets his teams up to win tight, finely poised games. It's why we struggled against West Brom because we're not great with the pressure off.

 

 

So Jose stuck with his plan which, i reiterate, was twice 5 minutes away from being successful if not for individual lapses of concentration from set pieces, something very rare particularly given that John Terry was at fault for one of them, usually the most reliable aerial defender in world football. As you say you don't like dealing in hypotheticals (even when that hypothetical is us being able to defend against 10 men at home against a team missing their top scorer for 5 minutes, just once out of two opportunities). So i'm not sure I can go along with the hypothetical that Jose abandoning his tactics and preparation would have led to a more favorable result.

 

 

I somewhat agree, although it's verging into 'I would've gotten away with it, if it wasn't for you kids' territory. Coulda, woulda, shouldas don't work when you're a pragmatist like Jose and all that counts is the result.

 

Getting back to the original point of buying Douglas Costa, if we had a greater attacking threat that works well when dominating possession, maybe we'd have gone through. But we're a counter-attacking team against tough opposition which requires the other team to attack...and they couldn't because they only had 10 men.

 

As you said, that changed everything and Jose probably didn't react that well.

 

 

 

Finally, in reference to the Barcelona team. Yes i'm sure if we had a strike force of Messi - Suarez - Neymar, supplemented by Iniesta, Xavi and Rakitic, that we too would adopt a more possession based attacking game. If you think Jose wouldn't adopt such tactics with a team of such quality, see his Real Madrid team of 2013 that set the record for La Liga goals scored in a season by 14 goals.

 

Absolutely true point. Can't argue with that, but to point out that he has the resources to build a damn good attacking team. Maybe not of that quality but we have Hazard and Costa, but chose to spend £60 million on Willian, Salah and Cuadrado. We're one player away from an amazing attacking trio.

Chelsea are said to be close to agreeing a deal for Shakhtar Donetsk attacker Douglas Costa.

Reports suggest that the Brazilian, who's been targeted by the Blues for some time, is on the verge of signing.

Th 24-year-old is reportedly available for €27m from the Ukrainian side, who have a very strong Brazilian contingent.

Costa is currently with the national team as they prepare for the Copa America, but would complete his move abroad if it got to that stage.

 

https://www.sportlobster.com/news/94249/chelsea-close-to-agreement-for-douglas-costa.html

Not sure if serious? Really? This 11 is better than the side that won us the champions league. I'm not sure if your serious if you honestly believe only real, barca, and bayern are capable of winning the champions league.

Juve and atletico have both reached the final in the last 2 seasons with a team that could argued is weaker than our first 11.

Yes it would be nice to have another world class player on the right, and as blue Daze said, it would be nice to go out and try and win some of these big games, but there's more than one way to skin a cat.

I very much doubt we will be able to have a team that would match barca and real on paper, so like it or not, our best chance of beating these teams is tactically, and riding our luck.

I would be interested in seeing an argument for this. 

please god no. no. no. no.

f**k sake. Will be annoyed if this goes ahead. 

Never seen him play heard he's got a decent free kick on him though.

I would be interested in seeing an argument for this. 

 

i would say that the reason for 'lesser' teams going further than us in the CL could be to do with the winter breaks they get, leaving them fresher for the run in both league and CL.

 

personally i think energy levels and form are basically the most important thing when it comes to very fine margins between teams esp in the CL as the difficult games often come in the last months of the season - An example of this is when we won the CL, crap in the league threw it and concentrated all the focus and energy into going as far as possible in cl and the squad played for their lives.

 

apart from that we dont have much of an excuse esp when looking at how psg rattled the cage and we never recovered etc im going to put that down to a lack of experienced players and an abundance of new/young faces - you would think next season they will be ready to at least reach a semi.

http://metro.co.uk/2015/06/11/liverpool-set-to-hijack-chelseas-transfer-move-for-douglas-costa-5240996/

 

 

yeah because liverpool have priority over us on signings!!

 

looks like agent using us to get a move going....hopefully

I think we are a bit crowded on the AMF positions.If we get back Moses or Salah or any of the younger players in that position it will be madness.

We are not signing him imo.

I hope you're right

I think we are a bit crowded on the AMF positions.If we get back Moses or Salah or any of the younger players in that position it will be madness.

 

I think we're one short actually. Hazard, Oscar, Willian, Cuadrado - for 3 positions. Fabregas hasn't performed well as a 10, so I'm not counting him, but of course he's an option. And then maybe a youngster. Also, out wide we only have Hazard and Cuadrado as players who can regularly beat defenders. One more senior AM sounds right.

We do need another wide option to give us depth.

He's garbage.

Schurrle is a FAR better footballer and he was sold.

http://metro.co.uk/2015/06/11/liverpool-set-to-hijack-chelseas-transfer-move-for-douglas-costa-5240996/

 

 

yeah because liverpool have priority over us on signings!!

 

looks like agent using us to get a move going....hopefully

only time i will cheer for liverpool

i dont see why we dont go for firminio instead of him

I would be interested in seeing an argument for this.

I think player for player there isn't very much between our team this year, and those 2 teams. We got knocked out against psg having played poorly over 2 legs, and I think Mourinho made a few mistakes aswell.

I certainly don't think we NEED a bale or pogba, to have a team capable of reaching the champions league final.

 

Chelsea are said to be close to agreeing a deal for Shakhtar Donetsk attacker Douglas Costa.

Reports suggest that the Brazilian, who's been targeted by the Blues for some time, is on the verge of signing.

Th 24-year-old is reportedly available for €27m from the Ukrainian side, who have a very strong Brazilian contingent.

Costa is currently with the national team as they prepare for the Copa America, but would complete his move abroad if it got to that stage.

 

https://www.sportlobster.com/news/94249/chelsea-close-to-agreement-for-douglas-costa.html

 

 

Oh god, please let this be crap.

Firmino is apparently available this summer. He can play attacking midfield, out wide, or up front. I think he would be a better signing than costa for cheaper aswell.

Yea supposedly he will sign for ManU for only 18millions (firminio)