26 minutes ago, Slojo said:

A world class coach? Guardiola has had it easy everywhere he's gone except for now, and he's done nothing yet. Until he wins the PL title I'll give him credit. 

I'm sorry but i simply cannot subscribe to that. When he fully stamps his philosophy on a team they are insanely difficult to play against even on a bad day, on a good day you can't touch them.

The positive however (from ours and all of City's rivals perspective) is he doesn't do more than 3/4 years at one club, so hopefully City will f**k up with his successor as badly as Bayern did.

Just now, Argo said:

I'm sorry but i simply cannot subscribe to that. When he fully stamps his philosophy on a team they are insanely difficult to play against even on a bad day, on a good day you can't touch them.

The positive however (from ours and all of City's rivals perspective) is he doesn't do more than 3/4 years at one club, so hopefully City will f**k up with his successor as badly as Bayern did.

The Barcelona side, he barely signed any of the players he had, although he did create an amazing philosophy while there. The Bayern Munich side was already built by Jupp Heynecks, and they were much better under him than they ever were under Pep. Pep regressed Bayern, he hardly improved them, the only thing that mattered was the Champions League, the title was easy to wrap up early, given that Dortmund went through a very bad patch then. 

This is his first real test in a very competitive league and he was very very bad in his first season despite having very good players and spending 200 million. This season so far they look VERY strong, but it's still early days, this is why I'm reserving my judgement. Just because they destroyed a very sh*t Arsenal over a 3 year period doesn't mean Bayern were unbelievable, they got tactically outdone & outplayed by all the top Spanish sides, when Jupp had Bayern scoring 5 past Barcelona. 

8 minutes ago, Slojo said:

 I can't tell you how many times I've heard people think Arsenal are going to win it because they had strong starts despite their track record. 

I agree on that as soon as Arsenal win a few consecutive games the media falls over itself to hype them up as title challengers.

19 minutes ago, Slojo said:

The Barcelona side, he barely signed any of the players he had, although he did create an amazing philosophy while there. The Bayern Munich side was already built by Jupp Heynecks, and they were much better under him than they ever were under Pep. Pep regressed Bayern, he hardly improved them, the only thing that mattered was the Champions League, the title was easy to wrap up early, given that Dortmund went through a very bad patch then. 

This is his first real test in a very competitive league and he was very very bad in his first season despite having very good players and spending 200 million. This season so far they look VERY strong, but it's still early days, this is why I'm reserving my judgement. Just because they destroyed a very sh*t Arsenal over a 3 year period doesn't mean Bayern were unbelievable, they got tactically outdone & outplayed by all the top Spanish sides, when Jupp had Bayern scoring 5 past Barcelona. 

I'm not sure he did regress Bayern, okay they weren't as exciting as Heynckes all energy side but that wasn't sustainable in the long run. Plus taking over treble winners if anything makes your job harder, how do you walk into a dressing room that has just won everything and not only motivate them to go again, but buy into new ideas? We saw it with Rafa at Inter, it's not as easy as it looks.

I felt he made his mistakes at times last season but now he seems to be reaping the rewards for not panicking and going more pragmatic. It's worth noting they did actually control most of the games last season and shown some ominous signs of what was come (not least that first half at Old Trafford) but ageing fullbacks and an average keeper was too big a handicap as far as keeping up with us or even Spurs was concerned. Now those areas have been fixed they look scary, they may not have the best CB's in the world, but the same was said about Barca, opposition have the same problems they did facing Barca, to exploit that you need to be able to get to them first.

Of Course they will drop a few points during the season for law of averages, but i can't see the lesser sides taking enough points of them to let anyone else with a shout, and that's assuming they have a meh big game record, if they win half of the big games this season it's game over.

Edited October 23, 20178 yr by Argo

Have i seen this right? De Bruyne and Mahrez at wing back and Ozil in a two man midfield?

1 hour ago, Slojo said:

The Barcelona side, he barely signed any of the players he had, although he did create an amazing philosophy while there. The Bayern Munich side was already built by Jupp Heynecks, and they were much better under him than they ever were under Pep. Pep regressed Bayern, he hardly improved them, the only thing that mattered was the Champions League, the title was easy to wrap up early, given that Dortmund went through a very bad patch then. 

This is his first real test in a very competitive league and he was very very bad in his first season despite having very good players and spending 200 million. This season so far they look VERY strong, but it's still early days, this is why I'm reserving my judgement. Just because they destroyed a very sh*t Arsenal over a 3 year period doesn't mean Bayern were unbelievable, they got tactically outdone & outplayed by all the top Spanish sides, when Jupp had Bayern scoring 5 past Barcelona. 

 

A point that doesn't get brought up enough IMO. (probably because it wasn't Chelsea doing it) Not only did he spend lavishly his first season he's done it again this past summer. There are more than a few managers who could produce with a 500m budget on new signings alone. 

1 hour ago, Argo said:

I'm not sure he did regress Bayern, okay they weren't as exciting as Heynckes all energy side but that wasn't sustainable in the long run. Plus taking over treble winners if anything makes your job harder, how do you walk into a dressing room that has just won everything and not only motivate them to go again, but buy into new ideas? We saw it with Rafa at Inter, it's not as easy as it looks.

I felt he made his mistakes at times last season but now he seems to be reaping the rewards for not panicking and going more pragmatic. It's worth noting they did actually control most of the games last season and shown some ominous signs of what was come (not least that first half at Old Trafford) but ageing fullbacks and an average keeper was too big a handicap as far as keeping up with us or even Spurs was concerned. Now those areas have been fixed they look scary, they may not have the best CB's in the world, but the same was said about Barca, opposition have the same problems they did facing Barca, to exploit that you need to be able to get to them first.

Of Course they will drop a few points during the season for law of averages, but i can't see the lesser sides taking enough points of them to let anyone else with a shout, and that's assuming they have a meh big game record, if they win half of the big games this season it's game over.

You mean he dominated teams while having the best players and spending 200 million? Well, I'm sure as hell he did, the issue is he almost struggled to get in the top 4 and got spanked 4-0 by Everton. Which just shouldn't happen whatsoever, I don't think any part of his game has transitioned, it's the same philosophy game in game out, that's what he's aiming to do, that's his confidence. It was his decision on Bravo also, he thought Bravo was capable, he wasn't, so it's not like it was a burden he had to bare. 

I'm not even saying it's easy for him to go out and win the Champions League right after Heynecks did, I'm saying he had 3 years and still couldn't do it. While having the best-assembled team and some of the best players in Europe, while playing in a non-competitive league where he can rest his players for Champions League football. 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/41728826

15 hours ago, Slojo said:

The Barcelona side, he barely signed any of the players he had

I recall a Barca fan talking about Pep's transfers. Apparently the only transfers at Barcelona that were Pep's were Sanchez, and if I remember correctly the other was Dmytro Chygrynskiy. Both were failures. At Barca and Byern the clubs are in charge of transfers.  

 

14 hours ago, TheChelseaBlues said:

A point that doesn't get brought up enough IMO. (probably because it wasn't Chelsea doing it) Not only did he spend lavishly his first season he's done it again this past summer. There are more than a few managers who could produce with a 500m budget on new signings alone. 

Of course a big budget to spend millions on players more than helps. But you still have to identify the right players and get them on board with your philosophy of how to play. Many managers have spent sh*t loads of money but got it wrong and failed to improve things. Just look at Jose and Utd currently - All that money spent (£90M on Pogba alone) but still playing turgid football!!

16 hours ago, Slojo said:

You mean he dominated teams while having the best players and spending 200 million? Well, I'm sure as hell he did, the issue is he almost struggled to get in the top 4 and got spanked 4-0 by Everton. Which just shouldn't happen whatsoever, I don't think any part of his game has transitioned, it's the same philosophy game in game out, that's what he's aiming to do, that's his confidence. It was his decision on Bravo also, he thought Bravo was capable, he wasn't, so it's not like it was a burden he had to bare. 

I'm not even saying it's easy for him to go out and win the Champions League right after Heynecks did, I'm saying he had 3 years and still couldn't do it. While having the best-assembled team and some of the best players in Europe, while playing in a non-competitive league where he can rest his players for Champions League football. 

It certainly takes time for a coach to implement his ideas, especially if they are primarily technical. You can say he failed here and there and could have done more, but I do not see another coach in the world who can get a team to play so dominantly, and so cohesively. Yes, not even for 500 mill. He may not win every trophy as he can certainly be out thought tactically but his teams play as superb cohesive units. It is great to watch complex technical football and this is something Jose can never aspire to. His is no coach, just a manager who knows how to keep it simple to get big results.

Conte is somewhere in between. 

I'm not saying his teams are never boring, I've been bored to death at times. However, it is spectacular when it clicks.

7 hours ago, Nibs said:

Of course a big budget to spend millions on players more than helps. But you still have to identify the right players and get them on board with your philosophy of how to play. Many managers have spent sh*t loads of money but got it wrong and failed to improve things. Just look at Jose and Utd currently - All that money spent (£90M on Pogba alone) but still playing turgid football!!

Well you could argue that Jose has also gotten his players on board with his philosophy, which is probably harder to do since it's so damn boring. I think Jose is in a similar camp there, they can both spend hundreds of millions every summer and get results but I'd like to see what happens when it gets dialed back. Sure you need the 'right' players but when you cherry pick from the best in the world how hard is it to find the right player? I think we all know Alex Sandro would be a great player for us but that's pretty obvious. 

I'm not saying the man isn't a great coach but I'd like to see him take over somewhere the scales aren't tipped in his favor from the beginning. 

 

8 hours ago, ashwin said:

It certainly takes time for a coach to implement his ideas, especially if they are primarily technical. You can say he failed here and there and could have done more, but I do not see another coach in the world who can get a team to play so dominantly, and so cohesively. Yes, not even for 500 mill. He may not win every trophy as he can certainly be out thought tactically but his teams play as superb cohesive units. It is great to watch complex technical football and this is something Jose can never aspire to. His is no coach, just a manager who knows how to keep it simple to get big results.

Conte is somewhere in between. 

It's about winning things not playing well, if that's the case then Brendan Rodgers is a better manager than Jose Mourinho. 

I mean don't get me wrong it was frustrating at times under Mourinho, but I would find it even more frustrating if we were playing really well at the start of the season, beautiful tika-taka football, only to completely slump in the latter part of the season and win nothing. 

10 hours ago, kiwi1691 said:

I recall a Barca fan talking about Pep's transfers. Apparently the only transfers at Barcelona that were Pep's were Sanchez, and if I remember correctly the other was Dmytro Chygrynskiy. Both were failures. At Barca and Byern the clubs are in charge of transfers.  

 

And Ibrahimovic I believe. 

To be fair to Pep it is not just about the money he has to spend (sure it helps), he has also got to make it work.

Stones was poor last season, now he looks worth the transfer fee.

Delph at LB, didn't see that coming.

KDB - never recall him playing quite so well.

Sane and Jesus, I'd never heard of before yet look quality.

 

 

Pep is a phenomenal manager.

He's always been at the top of the game everywhere he's been.

 

Ask Carlo if the Bayern job is easy.

38 minutes ago, BordeauxBlue said:

Pep is a phenomenal manager.

He's always been at the top of the game everywhere he's been.

 

Ask Carlo if the Bayern job is easy.

If Carlo inherited the squad Pep did from Heynicks then I'm sure he would've done better, given his Champions League record and what he's achieved. Not to mention Pep got the job at a perfect time when Dortmund was in huge decline and almost relegated. All he had to focus on was the Champions League. 

We lost against Palace AHAHAHAH

On 23/10/2017 at 16:52, Strider6003 said:

I'll be amazed if we don't finish higher than Utd.

They are still relying on Jones and Smalling, Lindehof looks out of his comfort zone. They lack width even relying on an older Ashley Jones at LWB.

Like us missing midfielders Pogba and Blind.

I wouldn't be amazed, we have our own problems at the moment and we will drop more points than them if those problems aren't addressed. We are having to work very hard for our wins this season. We couldn't even beat Crystal Palace, and they just got comfortably beaten by Bristol City. We have more problems than United at the moment.

 

6 minutes ago, Scott Harris said:

I wouldn't be amazed, we have our own problems at the moment and we will drop more points than them if those problems aren't addressed. We are having to work very hard for our wins this season. We couldn't even beat Crystal Palace, and they just got comfortably beaten by Bristol City. We have more problems than United at the moment.

 

United has the worst width out of the top sides, no attacking fullbacks, they're still pragmatic under Jose. But they're still the most organised side in the league, they'll grind out results. I'll take their problems over ours at the moment. 

I think Pogba is a big miss, without his flair in the middle they don't seem to have a great deal of threat to sides, and Jose heavily relies on the teams balance to defend as well as attack. 

City and Arsenal could both have been knocked out tonight. The performance by Wolves at the Etihad was nothing less than heroic. Pity they don't have a decent finisher.

25 minutes ago, carrickblue said:

City and Arsenal could both have been knocked out tonight. The performance by Wolves at the Etihad was nothing less than heroic. Pity they don't have a decent finisher.

Did you see who scored for Arsenal?  17 year old by the name of Eddie Nketiah.  Came on as an 85th minute sub - first team debut I believe and scored with his very first kick.  Prolific in the youth team by all accounts.  Why do I care?  Apparently RELEASED by us at 14 years of age and immediately snapped up by Arsenal. 

You can't win them all I guess, but is already looking like someone got something wrong big time!

1 hour ago, Topico said:

We lost against Palace AHAHAHAH

In all fairness, the Palace side tonight was completely different with only 2 or 3 that started against Chelsea. Agree though, we should never have lost to Palace.

I have seen that new penalty system twice this season now, and both times i have hated it. It's crap, i think it makes it disjointed and takes a bit of the edge out of penalties.