19 minutes ago, IliyaKrostin said:

 

I get your point, but we have one of the best academies in the world. It's unacceptable when we can't promote a youngster to our starting lineup, we don't really have faith in them. 

We rather buy players and block the youth. Drinkwater's transfer for example. I still believe Chalobah could success with us, but Conte gave up on him. 

CHO seems like a big talent, we have to give him a proper chance to prove himself. With our system I don't think Rashford or Alli could play, we block the youth. 

Even if he will fail which I believe not, we at least tried our best, gave the kid a chance to play for the club he played all his young years. 

I've said it a 1000 times. Chalobah wanted to leave because he knew he would play week in week out and get in the England squad.

He was never going to play week in week out for us.

Imagine Mbappe in our youth system I have a feeling we would still be shuffling around wondering what to do with him...

Can’t wait to hopefully see him in the flesh on Sunday. Hopefully from the start. 

1 hour ago, benjsross said:

I've said it a 1000 times. Chalobah wanted to leave because he knew he would play week in week out and get in the England squad.

He was never going to play week in week out for us.

But he didn’t though, all he wanted was a fair shot. There should be a reward for a youngster for playing well in a game, not been left out of the 18 for the next few games.

That was the same reason why Lukaku & De Bruyne left, and I can remember the latter saying if he had been bought for £30m+ he would have been given more chances (see Bakayoko & how many chances he has been given even though he is pants. A youngster would have been binned & sold very fast).

When you invest as much in youth as CFC does you have to ask if the youth are failing to make it or is the club failing the youth?

People say "show us the youth from CFC who went elsewhere and did exceptional"

I say"show me the exceptional player who spent his late teens and early twenties on loan"

The only ones I can think of were Chelsea products and only one of them is still at the club albeit perhaps not for long.

I think some people underestimate just how important top flight competitive games are in developing talents.  Someone said Ronaldo was a year older coming up at MUFC, and exactly!!!!  How many games did he play that season?  

Burn out because you play in the BPL at a young age?  That's a fanciful notion, but its crap.  Some players will, some players will not.  I do think it a terrible logic to essentially stall the development of a promising BPL youth talent because you're worried they might burn out.  My suggestion is lets just focus on getting them to a point where they are good enough for the CFC first team in this decade before we stall their development because of what might might happen in the next.  I mean there's a decade to worry about it and millions upon millions in professionals and assets purely dedicated to exactly this and other medical concerns.  Worrying about what will happen when they are thirty should be no concern until one or two of them actually stick around that long at CFC.  Let's worry about them at 17 to 21.

It's what, a champions league, a europa league, 5 BPL titles and a crate full of cups since the last CFC youth became a first team regular?  This needs to become a priority, especially given the amounts invested to do so...... 

Not saying CHO will be the next superstar, but he certainly appears to have what it takes to contribute positively to this team and now.  Given last season, how can anyone argue he'd not get minutes with the squad we currently have?  Sell Pedro and/or Willian (in that order imo) if we have to, but this guy needs to be starting all cup games and atleast 10 BPL games next season unless there are players keeping him out with some title challenge worthy appearances.

1 hour ago, ducavis said:

But he didn’t though, all he wanted was a fair shot. There should be a reward for a youngster for playing well in a game, not been left out of the 18 for the next few games.

That was the same reason why Lukaku & De Bruyne left, and I can remember the latter saying if he had been bought for £30m+ he would have been given more chances (see Bakayoko & how many chances he has been given even though he is pants. A youngster would have been binned & sold very fast).

It came out at the time chalobah was told by southgate if he played regularly he would be in England squad.

He left, he got in England squad. 

He would have played as much as Drinkwater did if he stayed - not much.

10 hours ago, CBLang said:

Imagine Mbappe in our youth system I have a feeling we would still be shuffling around wondering what to do with him...

Comparing proven player, who has already played for professional, in his case, very good team, to someone with 0 games, coming out directly of the youth teams is just silly.

It's not Chelsea that is struggling with the academy. We can see the same thing in Barcelona, Arsenal and almost everywhere with the exceptions like Monaco or Ajax but they are not top teams anyway. And we are not Monaco and Ajax.

Why would you put at stake a season or two and then potentially fail, when you can buy this class from Brazil, Belgium or Kongo? If you have the money and the chance to buy Hazard, you will get him and you will get rid of Kakuta. If you have the chance to get Neymar, you will buy him and get rid of Bojan Krkic. If you have the chance to get Dybala, you sell GIovinco. If you have the chance to buy Ronaldo from Sporting, you do it. the same thing with Mbappe.

the chances of academy players getting to the main teams have never been lower but that's a worldwide phenomenon. It's not our problem.

You can't blame the board, the club or the stuff. It's just the "modern football"

Edited July 31, 20187 yr by Giordano_Bruno

CHO is not even currently listed in the first team squad on the official club web site ... nor is Loftus-Cheek ... but it does show Aina, Ampadu and Musonda.

Read into that what you will !

2 hours ago, Giordano_Bruno said:

Comparing proven player, who has already played for professional, in his case, very good team, to someone with 0 games, coming out directly of the youth teams is just silly.

It's not Chelsea that is struggling with the academy. We can see the same thing in Barcelona, Arsenal and almost everywhere with the exceptions like Monaco or Ajax but they are not top teams anyway. And we are not Monaco and Ajax.

Why would you put at stake a season or two and then potentially fail, when you can buy this class from Brazil, Belgium or Kongo? If you have the money and the chance to buy Hazard, you will get him and you will get rid of Kakuta. If you have the chance to get Neymar, you will buy him and get rid of Bojan Krkic. If you have the chance to get Dybala, you sell GIovinco. If you have the chance to buy Ronaldo from Sporting, you do it. the same thing with Mbappe.

the chances of academy players getting to the main teams have never been lower but that's a worldwide phenomenon. It's not our problem.

You can't blame the board, the club or the stuff. It's just the "modern football"

We don't have the chance to sign a Neymar/Hazard/Ronaldo/Mbappe/Dybala anymore. Too many teams with more money than us now, hence why we should be developing the next big things or at least useful squad players. 

 

2 hours ago, Sexyfootball said:

CHO is not even currently listed in the first team squad on the official club web site ... nor is Loftus-Cheek ... but it does show Aina, Ampadu and Musonda.

Read into that what you will !

The web team needs sacking.

6 minutes ago, coco said:

The web team needs sacking.

How are we ever going to develop a world-class web team if we keep sacking these guys instead of investing in their development and giving them opportunities to grow?

1 hour ago, RIP Mourinho said:

We don't have the chance to sign a Neymar/Hazard/Ronaldo/Mbappe/Dybala anymore. Too many teams with more money than us now, hence why we should be developing the next big things or at least useful squad players. 

 

AND,in flashing neon, with a huge klaxon sound, a point being totally missed!  

I think he was comparing our position with all of the top teams, not specifically suggesting we could buy those players!  

You're welcome, happy to help  wherever I can 

9 minutes ago, Ilya said:

How are we ever going to develop a world-class web team if we keep sacking these guys instead of investing in their development and giving them opportunities to grow?

25 minutes ago, yorkleyblue said:

AND,in flashing neon, with a huge klaxon sound, a point being totally missed!  

I think he was comparing our position with all of the top teams, not specifically suggesting we could buy those players!  

You're welcome, happy to help  wherever I can 

His point was why play academy players when we can buy players from Brazil, Belgium or Kongo? Who's to say the players from these teams are going to work either. We aren't signing world class players to replace academy players as in his scenario, we're signing potential to replace potential. Why take a risk with Bakayoko when we had RLC/Chalobah. Why is a player with potential from another league given playing time more than our own other than the fact we paid a large sum for them. 

 

37 minutes ago, Ilya said:

How are we ever going to develop a world-class web team if we keep sacking these guys instead of investing in their development and giving them opportunities to grow?

If you've got a PHP developer with 7 years top flight experience who can come in and hit the ground running, why risk it all using an up and coming ASP.NET developer who might never reach their potential?

18 minutes ago, RIP Mourinho said:

His point was why play academy players when we can buy players from Brazil, Belgium or Kongo? Who's to say the players from these teams are going to work either.

 

Well, I wouldn't put my beer on Kakuta or Bojan over Neymar and Hazard. that's why all these scouts are so well paid - to find the best. And they are usually not in our academy. Or Barcelona's, Arsenal and the rest well known productive academies.

Anyway your point about our position on the market would have some value if we weren't about to buy Pulisic.

Edited July 31, 20187 yr by Giordano_Bruno

14 minutes ago, Giordano_Bruno said:

Well, I wouldn't put my beer on Kakuta or Bojan over Neymar and Hazard. that's why all these scouts are so well paid - to find the best. And they are usually not in our academy. Or Barcelona's, Arsenal and the rest well known productive academies.

Anyway your point about our position on the market would have some value if we weren't about to buy Pulisic.

We haven't signed a Neymar or Hazard since 2012. We also don't look like signing one anytime soon unless we step up our interest in Bailey. 

Dortmund have received no bids for Pulisic so we aren't 'about to sign Pulisic'. Even if we did i have my doubts he would ever get close to the level of player you mentioned. Would be lucky if he even got close to Willian's level. 

18 hours ago, coco said:

In all these years not one has stepped up to the required level, not one, why ? It's either A: we selected the wrong youngsters in the first place, or B: were not getting the best out of them and our academy has failed. 

We cannot have a scenario where all the youngsters are never good enough, and it's down to them they all failed.

A could have some legs but i very much doubt B as the coaching in the system is top class. The issue i believe upto now is despite success at youth level im wasn't really convinced the players were that good in terms of first team football. The only players i had hope for in the generations pre Tammy, Mount etc al were Christensen, Bertrand, Ake, Hutch and McEachran, the first two made in to our squad, the third would have but prefered regular football over a squad role, we all know the unfortunate circumstances with the 4th and the latter had an attitude that makes Ravel Morrison's look like Frank Lampard's. Boga, Baker, Dabo, PVA, Musonda, the two Cliffords, Kakuta, Bruma Solanke etc i spotted evident early flaws that were going to see to them in terms of first team chances. 

Now we are starting to see some serious talent come through. If we fail to get at least a respectable portion of the likes James, Sterling, Mount, Gilmour, Hudson Odoi, Bulka through then i will join your side of the fence but i can't really blame our manager's for not bringing players like the highlighted one's through, because they just simply aren't very good.

15 hours ago, ducavis said:

But he didn’t though, all he wanted was a fair shot. There should be a reward for a youngster for playing well in a game, not been left out of the 18 for the next few games.

That was the same reason why Lukaku & De Bruyne left, and I can remember the latter saying if he had been bought for £30m+ he would have been given more chances (see Bakayoko & how many chances he has been given even though he is pants. A youngster would have been binned & sold very fast).

Bakayoko got more chances because Conte specifically wanted him so he had to try his utmost to justify his decision. Drinkwater (£35m) and Bats (£32m) were shafted by Conte almost immediately which alone counters the "if he was signed for £30m he would have got a chance" not to mention Christensen regularly got picked over two £30m defenders.

Edited July 31, 20187 yr by Argo

1 hour ago, Argo said:

Bakayoko got more chances because Conte specifically wanted him so he had to try his utmost to justify his decision. Drinkwater (£35m) and Bats (£32m) were shafted by Conte almost immediately which alone counters the "if he was signed for £30m he would have got a chance" not to mention Christensen regularly got picked over two £30m defenders.

Also. Conte had no option but to play Bakayoko because Matic was sold without his consent, Drinkwater was bought in January, injured! Fabregas was/is too slow!

3 minutes ago, Gentian said:

Also. Conte had no option but to play Bakayoko because Matic was sold without his consent, Drinkwater was bought in January, injured! Fabregas was/is too slow!

A real shame that Conte forced two perfectly capable CM's in Chalobah and RLC out the door wasn't it. 

4 hours ago, RIP Mourinho said:

A real shame that Conte forced two perfectly capable CM's in Chalobah and RLC out the door wasn't it. 

Chalobah forced himself out, with good reason. He got an England call up shortly after, it's clear Southgate had a word in his ear.

Anyone who thinks RLC didn't progress at palace more than he would have at Chelsea, needs examining.

5 hours ago, RIP Mourinho said:

A real shame that Conte forced two perfectly capable CM's in Chalobah and RLC out the door wasn't it. 

I wouldn't say that. Would Chalobah or  Loftus Cheek get in any of the top sides in europe. I dont think so. 

1 hour ago, benjsross said:

Chalobah forced himself out, with good reason. He got an England call up shortly after, it's clear Southgate had a word in his ear.

Anyone who thinks RLC didn't progress at palace more than he would have at Chelsea, needs examining.

Conte forced him out by not rewarding him for his good play with more minutes. After that back heel assist he didn't see the pitch again for weeks. Basically says to the youth players 'go out and impress me but it means nothing'. 

No one is saying RLC didn't progress at Palace. The point was he was forced to play Bakayoko but he wouldn't have been if he actually gave RLC chances at CM and not stick him up top.

20 minutes ago, Gentian said:

I wouldn't say that. Would Chalobah or  Loftus Cheek get in any of the top sides in europe. I dont think so. 

Would Danny Drinkwater, Bakayoko get into top sides? No. But we still paid £75m for them to take positions RLC/Chalobah could have taken.