52 minutes ago, just said:

ou mean me Sindre. Did I want him to score the penalty? Of course I did. But I knew converting the penalty would detract attention from his overall performance. Am I wrong there? 

Anyway, continuing to spread the love, probably should have posted this up here rather than the RLC thread.

Unfortunately that's not me. Good poster though from what i have seen.

Not getting into a jorginho debate with you. You obviously have an unhealthy obsession with the guy judging from how much you focus in on just him. You literally come off as someone who would accept any loss as long as Jorginho is on the pitch so that you could blame him for everything under the sun and keep your agenda going. 

Unless you are 13 years old it's genuinely pathetic mate.

2 minutes ago, Argo said:

I have no issue with that and I've even said myself I'd take him to his next club myself if the trade off was a player like FDJ.

However the sheer level of mental gymnastics created to downplay anything he good he does is getting ridiculous, that's the only reason people are "putting him on a pedestal".

I was hoping for FDJ to come as well. Now I'm thinking we should go for someone else, like Newcastle's Bruno Guimaraes for example.

3 minutes ago, Argo said:

I have no issue with that and I've even said myself I'd take him to his next club myself if the trade off was a player like FDJ.

However the sheer level of mental gymnastics created to downplay anything he good he does is getting ridiculous, that's the only reason people are "putting him on a pedestal".

Sorry but when people are trying to compare a second half performance to somehow conclude they are matching Casemiro, yes I will say that is putting him on a very high pedestal.

12 minutes ago, Sconnie Blue said:

Sorry but when people are trying to compare a second half performance to somehow conclude they are matching Casemiro, yes I will say that is putting him on a very high pedestal.

Keep ignoring that Jorginho had a good second half, not my problem at this point.

1 minute ago, Gol15 said:

Keep ignoring that Jorginho had a good second half, not my problem at this point.

He did. I won't ever compare him to a player like Casemiro though. Or Rodri, or Fabinho. 

Good squad player to have to help us control the game. That's it. 

22 minutes ago, Sconnie Blue said:

Sorry but when people are trying to compare a second half performance to somehow conclude they are matching Casemiro, yes I will say that is putting him on a very high pedestal.

And there's worse that's been said the other way, like how Gilmour is an upgrade on him (he maybe one day but not anything near yet).

9 minutes ago, Sconnie Blue said:

He did. I won't ever compare him to a player like Casemiro though. Or Rodri, or Fabinho. 

Good squad player to have to help us control the game. That's it. 

If Jorginho was in Man City and if we had Rodri you would be saying the same thing in reverse, that Rodri is not comparable to Jorginho...

Good squad player doesn't change the fact that Jorginho has been our key player ever since he got here.

Edited October 23, 20223 yr by Gol15

1 hour ago, Droy said:

Unfortunately that's not me. Good poster though from what i have seen.

35 minutes ago, Argo said:

And there's worse that's been said the other way, like how Gilmour is an upgrade on him (he maybe one day but not anything near yet).

Heh, people were also comparing Gilmour to Iniesta, Modric and Shearer and got mad at me when I told them they're delusional. 🙈

2 hours ago, Droy said:

Unfortunately that's not me. Good poster though from what i have seen.

Not getting into a jorginho debate with you. You obviously have an unhealthy obsession with the guy judging from how much you focus in on just him. You literally come off as someone who would accept any loss as long as Jorginho is on the pitch so that you could blame him for everything under the sun and keep your agenda going. 

Unless you are 13 years old it's genuinely pathetic mate.

Realize i could come across as disrespectful here so apologies for that.

It does seem like Jorginho gets on your nerves in a particular way though since you obviously can't help to blame him for seemingly all our problems and that is weird.

Debates are pointless when people are barricaded behind their stances though so won't get into it more with you.

In my opinion. Very good role player for when we want control and did well in second half yesterday. Liability in other games and seeing how Potter got us playing I think Jorginho will struggle like many others.

@just

 

 

Edited October 23, 20223 yr by Droy

English Premier League – full season 2021/22

Jorginho – Chelsea

Appearances 26 (3) - Minutes played (2279)

Defensive stats:

Tackles per game (2.2) Interceptions per game (1.2) Fouls per game (1) Clearances per game (0.7) Dribbled past per game (1.9) Blocks made (0.1)

Offensive stats:

Goals total (6) Assists (2) Shots per game (0.6) Key passes per game (0.9) Dribbles Per game (0.6) Fouled per game (1) Lost ball per game (0.7) Bad control per game (0.8) Shots from outside the penalty area per game (0.2) Shots from inside the penalty area per game (0.3)

Passing breakdown:

Total assists (2) Key Passes per game (0.9) Ave. passes per game (69.4) Pass success rate (89.3%) Long balls per game (2.1) Through balls per game (0.1) Crosses per game (0)

 

English Premier League – full season 2021/22

Rodri – Manchester City

Appearances 33 - Minutes played (2887)

Defensive stats:

Tackles per game (2.2) Interceptions per game (0.8) Fouls per game (1.3) Clearances per game (1.3) Dribbled past per game (0.8) Blocks made (0.2)

Offensive stats:

Goals total (7) Assists (2) Shots per game (1.4) Key passes per game (0.9) Dribbles Per game (0.4) Fouled per game (0.6) Lost ball per game (0.7) Bad control per game (0.5) Shots from outside the penalty area per game (0.7) Shots from inside the penalty area per game (0.7)

Passing breakdown:

Total assists (2) Key Passes per game (0.9) Ave.0.1 passes per game (86.8) Pass success rate (91.8%) Long balls per game (5.5) Through balls per game (0.1) Crosses per game (0.1)

 

The most noticeable difference in the defensive stats is that Jorginho is dribbled past twice as much as Rodri. Though it is worth noting aerial duels won are not recorded here, but you would assume that Rodri would be leading comfortably in that metric too.

The major differences are when you compare the passing stats and offensive stats, and of course Rodri doesn't take the penalties for City. Rodri. Yet another another example of a defensive midfielder who is not just a recycler. And this was last season's figures before he had Haaland to play in!!

https://www.whoscored.com/Players/303139/History/Rodri

https://www.whoscored.com/Players/106968/History/Jorginho

 

#wedontneedasittingdefensivemidfielder

8 minutes ago, just said:

English Premier League – full season 2021/22

Jorginho – Chelsea

Appearances 26 (3) - Minutes played (2279)

Defensive stats:

Tackles per game (2.2) Interceptions per game (1.2) Fouls per game (1) Clearances per game (0.7) Dribbled past per game (1.9) Blocks made (0.1)

Offensive stats:

Goals total (6) Assists (2) Shots per game (0.6) Key passes per game (0.9) Dribbles Per game (0.6) Fouled per game (1) Lost ball per game (0.7) Bad control per game (0.8) Shots from outside the penalty area per game (0.2) Shots from inside the penalty area per game (0.3)

Passing breakdown:

Total assists (2) Key Passes per game (0.9) Ave. passes per game (69.4) Pass success rate (89.3%) Long balls per game (2.1) Through balls per game (0.1) Crosses per game (0)

 

English Premier League – full season 2021/22

Rodri – Manchester City

Appearances 33 - Minutes played (2887)

Defensive stats:

Tackles per game (2.2) Interceptions per game (0.8) Fouls per game (1.3) Clearances per game (1.3) Dribbled past per game (0.8) Blocks made (0.2)

Offensive stats:

Goals total (7) Assists (2) Shots per game (1.4) Key passes per game (0.9) Dribbles Per game (0.4) Fouled per game (0.6) Lost ball per game (0.7) Bad control per game (0.5) Shots from outside the penalty area per game (0.7) Shots from inside the penalty area per game (0.7)

Passing breakdown:

Total assists (2) Key Passes per game (0.9) Ave.0.1 passes per game (86.8) Pass success rate (91.8%) Long balls per game (5.5) Through balls per game (0.1) Crosses per game (0.1)

 

The most noticeable difference in the defensive stats is that Jorginho is dribbled past twice as much as Rodri. Though it is worth noting aerial duels won are not recorded here, but you would assume that Rodri would be leading comfortably in that metric too.

The major differences are when you compare the passing stats and offensive stats, and of course Rodri doesn't take the penalties for City. Rodri. Yet another another example of a defensive midfielder who is not just a recycler. And this was last season's figures before he had Haaland to play in!!

https://www.whoscored.com/Players/303139/History/Rodri

https://www.whoscored.com/Players/106968/History/Jorginho

 

#wedontneedasittingdefensivemidfielder

From 18-19 October 2022.

28 minutes ago, Droy said:

Realize i could come across as disrespectful here so apologies for that.

It does seem like Jorginho gets on your nerves in a particular way though since you obviously can't help to blame him for seemingly all our problems and that is weird.

Debates are pointless when people are barricaded behind their stances though so won't get into it more with you.

In my opinion. Very good role player for when we want control and did well in second half yesterday. Liability in other games and seeing how Potter got us playing I think Jorginho will struggle like many others.

@just

 

 

Accepted Droy. Apologies too if I have made it personal in any way but the style of your written posts and the opinions I have seen from you so far are, to me, practically a mirror image of Sindres' who we haven't seen much of since Tuchel was fired. Loved Jorginho, didn't like Potter.

Anyway, let's talk about something we can agree on. Kante, what a bloody awesome player........................................................................................ .....when he's fit!

Just now, Gol15 said:

From 18-19 October 2022.

Are we allowed to accept SKY Sports statistics Gol? How do we know they're not flawed? Maybe Jamie Carragher put those together.

28 minutes ago, just said:

Are we allowed to accept SKY Sports statistics Gol? How do we know they're not flawed? Maybe Jamie Carragher put those together.

Jorginho would have won the PL if he was in Man City when Pep wanted to have him and that's the reason why they stopped all communications with Napoli which are still active till this day. You would be obsessed about Rodri in the same way as you are today about Jorginho, had we signed Rodri instead. Let tha sink in for a moment.

 Here is a direct comparison between the two of them, whole last season which goes hand in hand with what sky sport reported:

https://fbref.com/en/stathead/player_comparison.cgi?request=1&sum=0&comp_type=by_type&dom_lg=1&spec_comps=big_5&player_id1=6434f10d&p1yrfrom=2021-2022&player_id2=45db685d&p2yrfrom=2021-2022

Jorginho made more tackles, press more and had more intercetpions than Rodri.
Furthermore Jorginho had more successful dribbles, drawn more fouls and committed less fouls.

Rodri has more blocks, clearances and about 3% higher passing percentage and more goals. The difference when you consider that Rodri has world class players around him and specially in front of him, is minimal which shows why Pep wanted to sign Jorginho to begin with.

Edited October 23, 20223 yr by Gol15

31 minutes ago, Gol15 said:

Jorginho would have won the PL if he was in Man City when Pep wanted to have him and that's the reason why they stopped all communications with Napoli which are still active till this day. You would be obsessed about Rodri in the same way as you are today about Jorginho, had we signed Rodri instead. Let that sink in for a moment.

But he wouldn't have won the CL.

Let that sink in.

4 minutes ago, Vagabond said:

But he wouldn't have won the CL.

Let that sink in.

Pep wouldn't have picked him. Boom.

9 hours ago, loz said:

I think we all under estimate Jorginho's potential to be a public servant. @justin particular.  Many examples of his commitment to public duty, just some being 

He could put his ghost powers to work and go haunt the next Tory scumbag that ends up as PM, in a Christmas Carol style, in to not being a complete c**t?

17 minutes ago, Vagabond said:

But he wouldn't have won the CL.

Let that sink in.

Fair enough. But would people still say about Rodri how we'll never win the league as long as he's here?

54 minutes ago, Gol15 said:

Fair enough. But would people still say about Rodri how we'll never win the league as long as he's here?

You mean a more well rounded player who can do both jobs, attack and defend? Of course we could be better Gol. 

Do you ever stop and think some transfers, especially potential paper rumoured transfers, might not turn out how managers thought they would? For example imagine if Pep had actually brought Jorginho. Now extend that hypothetical scenario further and imagine he had played him consistently in his preferred starting lineup. But Jorginho wasn't what Pep hoped he would be. He wasn't a good enough defender, didn't really offer anything going forwards and always had to have certain other players protecting him. Would Pep have stuck with him? Or would he have soon looked for someone better, a more complete player, Rodri for instance. 

Here's an example, but in reverse. We wanted Haaland. There was a lot of paper rumours that we had talks with Haaland, his agent and Dortmund. Haaland didn't come. We went for Lukaku. In hindsight, knowing what we know now, (and what more than a few suspected at the time), we wouldn't have gone for Lukaku. We would have broke the bank and moved heaven and earth to persuade Haaland to sign for us. Because he is the better player.

Here's another example. Klopp wanted to buy Pulisic.

 

 

 

5 minutes ago, just said:

You mean a more well rounded player who can do both jobs, attack and defend? Of course we could be better Gol. 

Do you ever stop and think some transfers, especially potential paper rumoured transfers, might not turn out how managers thought they would? For example imagine if Pep had actually brought Jorginho. Now extend that hypothetical scenario further and imagine he had played him consistently in his preferred starting lineup. But Jorginho wasn't what Pep hoped he would be. He wasn't a good enough defender, didn't really offer anything going forwards and always had to have certain other players protecting him. Would Pep have stuck with him? Or would he have soon looked for someone better, a more complete player, Rodri for instance. 

Here's an example, but in reverse. We wanted Haaland. There was a lot of paper rumours that we had talks with Haaland, his agent and Dortmund. Haaland didn't come. We went for Lukaku. In hindsight, knowing what we know now, (and what more than a few suspected at the time), we wouldn't have gone for Lukaku. We would have broke the bank and moved heaven and earth to persuade Haaland to sign for us. Because he is the better player.

Here's another example. Klopp wanted to buy Pulisic.

 

 

 

Everybody can be wrong about a player, including some of the most known managers in the world, but not you!

Sorry @Gol15with Tim gone looks like the forum anger gets vented at you. You can thank @coco for that lol

Still least you have your medals  🙂

2 hours ago, just said:

Pep wouldn't have picked him. Boom.

You could be right, maybe Pep would be the exception and disagreed with all of Sarri, Tuchel, Potter, Mourinho, Mancini and Capello.

 

 

 

22 minutes ago, Argo said:

You could be right, maybe Pep would be the exception and disagreed with all of Sarri, Tuchel, Potter, Mourinho, Mancini and Capello.

 

 

 

Yes, but Souness once said he would've been overjoyed to play against I guy like Jorgi!!

@Gol15 I think comparing players with different roles (same position doesn't mean same role!) in different clubs doesn't make sense in general. Jorgi vs Rodri, Iniesta vs Modric, Mount vs Henderson, Kovacic vs De Bryune etcetcetc. Since it's not falsifiable you can claim anything you want so I usually try to avoid it.

26 minutes ago, Argo said:

You could be right, maybe Pep would be the exception and disagreed with all of Sarri, Tuchel, Potter, Mourinho, Mancini and Capello.

 

 

 

 Capello has probably changed his mind now? Strangely he hasn't picked Jorginho for his world cup team. He has picked Trent Alexander Arnold though.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-11339531/Former-England-boss-Fabio-Capello-selects-Trent-Alexander-Arnold-Star-World-Cup-XI.html